Query on QA1 LCA with Hotchkis UCA

[MartinTheHuman]

Hi all, tried searching the forum to see if this was addressed but didn't see anything explicit. I've removed my LCAs from my 69 XS29L9, and I'm thinking of just replacing the stock LCA with QA1, part number 52308. I have zero experience with QA1 (generally new to classic cars at all) and all I'm going off of are the google results and photos that I'm looking at - I'm noticing that the ride height adjusting bolt assembly seems to be missing from the QA1 LCA. Looks like the sway bar tabs are there though. Am I missing something, are they full replacements for the stock LCA minus the ball joint? I purchased replacement bushings, ball joints, and of course the Hotchkis TVS kit's UCA (kind of surprised Hotchkis didn't include the LCA) but am on a timeline here (visiting family with a shop for the holidays) and want to make sure I order everything I need.

If anyone can help out a noob I'd really appreciate it. Also, once I get done cleaning the stock LCA's I'll be looking to unload them.

~Martin

[HPP]

QA1 lowers are a direct replacement for the factory units. They still retain the adjusting bolt function, but they do not come with a new bolt and block for this function. You will need to purchase new ones of re-use your old ones.

The claim for the QA1 lower arm over stock is lighter weight and more strength. Hotchkis saw no need to modify the lower arm since the changes they were after were improved geometry. There is not  much geometry improvement you can make for the lower arm.

[MartinTheHuman]

Awesome, that's the data I was looking for. Really appreciate it!

[WHITE AND RED 69]

You'll also have to switch to a 1970 b body sway bar with the QA1 lower arms. The mounting locations on the arms are different from the stock 68 & 69 b bodies.

[MartinTheHuman]

I was actually sitting here looking at the ROI for the cost of the new LCAs and decided to just clean up the stock arms. Mostly don't want to wait a couple days for the parts to arrive.

[71charger_fan]

That's what I've got in my '71.

[Derwud]

The only thing I don't like about the QA1 lower arms is the lack of bump stop mount..

[MartinTheHuman]

That's what I've got in my '71.

Man, that looks really clean...I'm jealous. Well done! I won't be able to clean up the underside until I get repainted late next year. Nothing wrong with my current paint job, but I definitely need a body off scrubbing. When I hit bolts with the impact I get a ton of crap on the shop floor. Interestingly I found out my car was born blue when I took the access panels off.

Got the UCA's in, using the stock LCAs, unboxing the Wilwoods for the spindles, well on my way for a guy learning from scratch. Can't wait to measure for wheels, going to be tight with 14" rotors up front.

Next up is finding someplace that sells a center link. From what I can tell from Google, it's either Ebay or salvage yard diving.

~Martin

[71charger_fan]

Is your center link definitely bent or is it just hitting the pan? Mine was rubbing the pan. Took it off, end for ended it, and reinstalled it. Now I have oil pan clearance.

[HPP]

Took it off, end for ended it, and reinstalled it.

What does this mean?

There are some ways to adjust oil pan clearance using the steering box, idler arm, and motor mounts if that is the issue.

[MSRacing89]

The only thing I don't like about the QA1 lower arms is the lack of bump stop mount..

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ens-9-9116g/overview/

We installed these.  Work fine with the QA1 LCA's

[MartinTheHuman]

Nothing wrong with my center link, just don't like NOT having an extra when I can't find one that's still manufactured. Found one on Ebay though.

So, trying to take the bushings out...ran into a problem. Any advice for how to get that inner sleeve out after I get the shaft out? I have the mechanics manual and it just references using a chisel, but I don't think they were planning on this...heh.

Got the shaft out, got the rubber out, so basically just trying to get the sleeve out of the LCA. AFAIK the torsion rod hex on the other side stays, it's not even referenced in section 2 of the mechanic manual. Trying to get the bushing out to take the LCAs to get cleaned tomorrow morning.

[birdsandbees]

You can buy an expending puller from Mancini (that I ended up having to machine to catch the inner lip), or you can weld a large washer to the sleeve face and then press it out.

[Derwud]

The only thing I don't like about the QA1 lower arms is the lack of bump stop mount..

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ens-9-9116g/overview/

We installed these.  Work fine with the QA1 LCA's

Did you install on the body or on the Arm?

[71charger_fan]

Took it off, end for ended it, and reinstalled it.

What does this mean?

There are some ways to adjust oil pan clearance using the steering box, idler arm, and motor mounts if that is the issue.

If you take the center link off and attach the end that was on the driver's side to the passenger side and vice versa, it can gain a little bit of oil pan clearance as the link has a slight bow to it. It moves the link so it bows away from the pan. It bought me enough clearance so I didn't have to shim the engine mounts as my center link was rubbing on the pan.

[Mike DC]

  

The only thing I don't like about the QA1 lower arms is the lack of bump stop mount..

I would call them up and demand a return/refund.  There is no excuse for leaving that out.  It's not a complete item without it.  


The car magazines could run a monthly column just devoted to putting the spotlight on product problems like this.  But they're too sold-out to do it.  

[MSRacing89]

The only thing I don't like about the QA1 lower arms is the lack of bump stop mount..

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ens-9-9116g/overview/

We installed these.  Work fine with the QA1 LCA's

Did you install on the body or on the Arm?

We simply drilled a hole on the edge of the flat surface that the original bump stop made contact with on the frame rail.  Nut, bolt and done.

[MartinTheHuman]

Quick update. Well, I ordered the QA1 tubular LCA's out of concern that I won't get done with the suspension on time and as far as I can tell I'll be returning them because my Hotchkis sway bar won't mount on it because of the fact it came in the 69 kit. Still looking into that gem. It's really weird QA1 would build a stock "replacement" that was designed for use with a non-sway bar b-body. Wasn't too thrilled about the bump stop moving to the frame mount but at least it got the job done whereas the sway bar change is a headache. If that's accurate, if anyone's done a Hotchkis TVS install and used a QA1 LCA for a 69 Charger, correct me if I'm wrong.

The bushing sleeves just won't come out of my stock LCAs. Unfortunately my uncle whom I'm building the car with, while being an absolute master mechanic with decades of experience with all things automotive from drag racing to street racing, can't weld a washer to the bushing sleeve due to his Parkinson's and I've had a grand total of 45 minutes welding experience in my entire life. Tried chisels like the manual says but that's a mess.

At least the back end was easy to do. Of course I'm about to run into the factory drum to Wilwood disc conversion problem given I have an unoriginal 8-3/4 rear end (original Dana 60 went into a 69 4-speed for a pretty penny profit to finance some of this and I had a perfectly good 8-3/4 sitting there) and now I'm wondering if the flange width is the same as the Dana...can't remember. And I'm new to all this, so I'm "learning" as I go.

~Martin

[MartinTheHuman]

Wasn't too thrilled about the bump stop moving to the frame mount but at least it got the job done whereas the sway bar change is a headache. If that's accurate, if anyone's done a Hotchkis TVS install and used a QA1 LCA for a 69 Charger, correct me if I'm wrong.

Never mind, asked and answered here:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=103242.0

I guess the big question is how much gain does the 70 sway bar have over the 69.

~Martin

[Derwud]

The only thing I don't like about the QA1 lower arms is the lack of bump stop mount..

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ens-9-9116g/overview/

We installed these.  Work fine with the QA1 LCA's

Did you install on the body or on the Arm?

We simply drilled a hole on the edge of the flat surface that the original bump stop made contact with on the frame rail.  Nut, bolt and done.

Now on my to do list..

[Derwud]

My Set-up

[Mike DC]

I guess the big question is how much gain does the 70 sway bar have over the 69.

It's not a gain IIRC.  It's about the same spring rate.  Slightly more compact but on the other hand it's slightly more affected by bushing play that way.  The outer arms of the bar have less leverage because they are shorter but on the other hand the arms meet the LCA that much closer to the inner pivot, so that cancels out the gain. 

The 1970 setup is arguably better because it's just a cleaner & more compact deal, but it's not a performance gain over the 69 per se. 

[Derwud]

Quick update. Well, I ordered the QA1 tubular LCA's out of concern that I won't get done with the suspension on time and as far as I can tell I'll be returning them because my Hotchkis sway bar won't mount on it because of the fact it came in the 69 kit. Still looking into that gem. It's really weird QA1 would build a stock "replacement" that was designed for use with a non-sway bar b-body. Wasn't too thrilled about the bump stop moving to the frame mount but at least it got the job done whereas the sway bar change is a headache. If that's accurate, if anyone's done a Hotchkis TVS install and used a QA1 LCA for a 69 Charger, correct me if I'm wrong.

The bushing sleeves just won't come out of my stock LCAs. Unfortunately my uncle whom I'm building the car with, while being an absolute master mechanic with decades of experience with all things automotive from drag racing to street racing, can't weld a washer to the bushing sleeve due to his Parkinson's and I've had a grand total of 45 minutes welding experience in my entire life. Tried chisels like the manual says but that's a mess.

At least the back end was easy to do. Of course I'm about to run into the factory drum to Wilwood disc conversion problem given I have an unoriginal 8-3/4 rear end (original Dana 60 went into a 69 4-speed for a pretty penny profit to finance some of this and I had a perfectly good 8-3/4 sitting there) and now I'm wondering if the flange width is the same as the Dana...can't remember. And I'm new to all this, so I'm "learning" as I go.

~Martin

Sorry about your Uncle..

You will be fine with the Sway bar and LCA.

Rear flanges are the same. But parking brakes are fun.. Try these guys http://www.controlcables.com/

[MSRacing89]

My Set-up

Derwud.  You may want to do some checks on the body length you have there with those Hotchkis shocks.  If you plan on running the car low, there is good chance the shock body will be too long.  We run a much shorter front double adjustable QA1 shock for competition and still only have about 2½" of travel.  Just a warning to you guys mixing kits, it takes a bit of time to get it all sorted.  

 

[Derwud]

My Set-up

Derwud.  You may want to do some checks on the body length you have there with those Hotchkis shocks.  If you plan on running the car low, there is good chance the shock body will be too long.  We run a much shorter front double adjustable QA1 shock for competition and still only have about 2½" of travel.  Just a warning to you guys mixing kits, it takes a bit of time to get it all sorted.  

 

The overall shock length is a bit short, but I will check once I get motor and trans in the car.. Good thing Hotchkis is close by...

[funknut]

The bushing sleeves just won't come out of my stock LCAs. Unfortunately my uncle whom I'm building the car with, while being an absolute master mechanic with decades of experience with all things automotive from drag racing to street racing, can't weld a washer to the bushing sleeve due to his Parkinson's and I've had a grand total of 45 minutes welding experience in my entire life. Tried chisels like the manual says but that's a mess.

You can burn the rubber bushings out with a torch and the sleeves will come out.

[MartinTheHuman]

Quick update, luckily we're out in the back woods of Arkansas so we went to a neighbors house, he came over with a cutting chisel and we were sleeves out in 3 minutes.

The new Hotchkis torsion bars were a hoot. If I had to guess they're 1.1" or so, getting the rubber sleeves on them were representative of an elephant fornicating with a chihuahua, bars were huge and the sleeves tiny. Had to use some Bessy C-clamps to work them on the bars. Have no idea how they expect a normal Joe to get those on. But the bars are great.

~Martin

[HPP]

You drop em in boiling water for 15 seconds, then slid em on. Or hit them with a heat gun for 30 seconds.