Value

[RealWing]

Looking for some thoughts on the approx value of this Superbird as-is. Body is in very good condition as well as the floor pans and frame. Only rust visible is a narrow bottom strip behind rear wheels. Car has been painted twice in EK2. 440-4bbl Engine is original but not the 727 tranny or the carburetor. The whole interior is very moldy, since car has been sitting for some time in an unheated garage. Front bucket seats have been recovered, rears are original. Body code plate and a partial Broadcast sheet are there. Car originally came with 14" Magnum 500 wheels & full undercoat.


It will obviously take many $$$$$$ to bring it back plus the cost or finding several missing parts including both jacks, nose trim, 4 wheels and spare , latch tray, bottom nose panel, air cleaner. Strangely someone has removed the wing brackets and the angle brackets that are welded to the trunk floor pan!!  Another odd thing is that it has a column shift steering column in it!!
Jim

[birdsandbees]

Many had column shift in them! $8 for a can of Lysol may cure the mold issue...

The trunk brackets and quarter panel "washers" are worth good money.. probably why they're gone.. if it's a real bird!

[RealWing]

Some more photos

[RealWing]

Many had column shift in them! $8 for a can of Lysol may cure the mold issue...

The trunk brackets and quarter panel "washers" are worth good money.. probably why they're gone.. if it's a real bird!

It is a "real bird"

[RealWing]

More photos. 66000 miles on it. Headliner was replaced at some point - the all important rear window interior trim is there!!!!!

[1970Moparmann]

Based on the one that went for $80k on Ebay, this once can't be too far behind it.   

[RealWing]

Based on the one that went for $80k on Ebay, this once can't be too far behind it.   

Do you happen to have the link to the Ebay bird?

[odcics2]

skid plate on the engine crossmember...   

[RealWing]

skid plate on the engine crossmember...   

It was coded as a "79" on the Broadcast Sheet which is p/n 3466479 - 440 crossmember with skid plate.

Just noticed the brace from the K frame to the Rad support is also missing.

[moparstuart]

replacement manual console in an automatic car

[RealWing]

replacement manual console in an automatic car

Are you saying that this is a manual shift console?  If so, how can you tell??
Thx
Jim

[1970Moparmann]

It was the one that came from NY or PA?   

After a weekend of work, this car can be close to it.

[DAY CLONA]

replacement manual console in an automatic car

Are you saying that this is a manual shift console?  If so, how can you tell??
Thx
Jim

That's not a manual transmission console in that bird...

[RealWing]

So why is there a column shifter tube in the steering column of a console car?

[A383Wing]

that is the locking lever for the shifter. You cannot turn key to off and lock without the shifter on the console being in park

[Mopar John]

It looks to me that either someone took all the easy to take off parts and stored them somewhere along the line for safe keeping or
someone just took all the easy to take stuff??
The grille and grille frame, turn signal frames, the turn signal lenses and the windshield pillar deflectors along with all the already mentioned items!
MJ

[RealWing]

that is the locking lever for the shifter. You cannot turn key to off and lock without the shifter on the console being in park

You are correct. I had not thought of that.

[DAY CLONA]

Looking for some thoughts on the approx value of this Superbird as-is.

Being a "base model" Superbird, the color being the only desirable option, buckets and floor shift auto are somewhat a plus, and it's current condition, assuming it's not carved in bondo, $75K +/- $5K

The "missing" parts are easily replaced with reproduction items, the restoration, depending on how much is farmed out by a potential buyer, will determine the initial buy in, and max offer

[rob-dirt]

Based on the one that went for $80k on Ebay, this once can't be too far behind it.   

Do you happen to have the link to the Ebay bird?

No link the one on ebay in new york NEVER SOLD the buyer did not pay ...the guy that ownes that car didnt pass on did he ? ANYWAY  soon you will be able to tell 9 coming auction too many for sale at one place .. my reflect on the prices



https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/plymouth/superbird

[FJ5WING]

Is it me or does there seem to be A LOT of oxidation on the unpainted metal? Was this car sitting outside or in damp conditions? flood?

[RealWing]

Is it me or does there seem to be A LOT of oxidation on the unpainted metal? Was this car sitting outside or in damp conditions? flood?

There is a lot of oxidation - especially noticeable on the carb and in spots under the car. It has been sitting for several years in an unheated shed (it has a cement floor - which also causes corrosion) and has thus been subjected to humidity changes as the weather changed. has not been in a flood.

[Redbird]

Nice looking car!

With the pictures it is still a wild guess as to value.

It looks as if it needs a complete gut on the interior, steering wheel cracked, no glove box, mold issues. I am going to take the description at face value, needs a check written to Legendary, probably for door panels, the works.

Without being there it is very hard to venture how much bodywork will be needed. Can't really see quarter panel issues, the trunk looks surprisingly good. Is it bubbling underneath or undercoating? From the rust on the exhaust pipes (and other lower body parts), they look gone, is that how other parts of the bottom of the car are?

Needs Latch tray, center under panel, grill frames, trunk braces, parking lights, A pillar trim. All are available reproduction. All can be found in original parts given an infinite amount of time. Original grill frames probably hardest to find, folks don't like the prices on original parts so repo's here. Folks won't pay a reasonable price for an original center under panel either, so they put cheap repos on. Are the diamonds in the back there? Buying repo parts is going to limit the restored desirability and probably never a podium car w/o original parts. Still a very nice car to drive.

The corroded under hood parts are going to add up. All available, just time and money.

Given the general presentation of the car, it probably deserves original parts.

Does the radiator have the right #'s?

I think this car will draw a good amount. A project car that can be restored, how many are there out there for sale? I'm guessing 80K+.

[RealWing]

Thanks Redbird
We went over the whole body looking for bondo - and only saw some behind the rear wheels along the lower edge of the QP. There might be some small holes in the trunk floor in spots - hard to tell. Other than that - body is excellent. Exhaust needs complete replacement - the rest of the under carriage looks OK.
I agree that the missing parts can be replaced with repro's - but like you said - that ultimately decreases the value. ( The A pillar s/s deflectors are there - hard to see in photo)
Rad is original - even looks like the original foam seal between the top of the rad and the rad support is there!!!! The diamond plates are there.
Jim

[Beep Beep Dave]

If I were buying I would think $60-$65k would be where I would feel comfortable. I think there would be a few buyers in that area. The car really needs a total resto and has parts missing. The ones that are present don't appear to be in the best of shape.

Dave

[RealWing]

If I were buying I would think $60-$65k would be where I would feel comfortable. I think there would be a few buyers in that area. The car really needs a total resto and has parts missing. The ones that are present don't appear to be in the best of shape.

Dave

Thanks

[rob-dirt]

If I were buying I would think $60-$65k would be where I would feel comfortable. I think there would be a few buyers in that area. The car really needs a total resto and has parts missing. The ones that are present don't appear to be in the best of shape.


 

[Aero426]

$80k if you are selling.   $65k if you are buying.   

[rainbow4jd]

I can only say what I would be willing to pay for it - based on what you have described.   

First, I start with what it will take to restore it.   And I'm going to say $15,000 for paint and body and another $15,000 in parts - maybe that is high, but I'll think "worse case"

Second, I'm guessing a nicely restored auto 44 bird is going to be a $110,000 - $130,000 car.     That's not a Concours restoration but a daily driver restoration I'm talking about. 

Third, I'm going to AT LEAST want to believe that I have 20% or about $25,000 in profit - should I sell it.  In other words, if I go invest money in the stock market - and I invest in risky stocks (but they pay out pretty good) I should be able to get 20% return on that money, so similarly I would want to get 20% return on my investment in the car, because cars are considered "risky" investments.   

Which leads me to the math....

Worst case:  $110,000 - less 20% ($22,000) profit - $30,000 restoration = $58,000 on the bottom
Best case:    $130,000 - less 20% ($26,000) profit - $30,000 restoration = $74,000 on the top

If you already have people you know and trust to do the restoration - then you might lean towards the top.   If you don't know anyone then presume you'll probably get screwed by someone who shortcuts and you'll have to pay more to fix it (trial and error money wasting lesson) - then I would go for the bottom.

PS I might have the correct carburetor still around for your car - it will need to be rebuilt.  I've moved so a lot of stuff is in storage and I sold off a bunch of parts - so it may be gone.

[Redbird]

IMHO, If it is a shop or someone that is going to immediately flip it, the restoring the car the profit analysis makes some sense.

For the average home based restoration, I don't believe it applies.

There are lots of restored cars available at one time, see the # of cars available for auction in January.

The # of complete cars available for restoration is a much smaller pool.

This car is relatively complete. sure it is missing some parts. However, it is not like it is a complete rust hole basket case if the description is accurate. I'd hedge here since I believe an on site inspection is mandatory, I would be quite concerned the the past storage has created a rotter.

I think project cars will return a higher # than the final line cost will dictate. The # of people that want to get into the market and invest sweat equity and parts finding ability, plus their optimism will drive the cost higher than the MBA approach. IMHO the MBA approach with the profit calculated at 20% does not work because one has to add the carrying cost of borrowed or opportunity money and that drops the initial buy in cost to something that virtually no car no matter what the condition into the unaffordable category.

[RealWing]

I can only say what I would be willing to pay for it - based on what you have described.   

First, I start with what it will take to restore it.   And I'm going to say $15,000 for paint and body and another $15,000 in parts - maybe that is high, but I'll think "worse case"

Second, I'm guessing a nicely restored auto 44 bird is going to be a $110,000 - $130,000 car.     That's not a Concours restoration but a daily driver restoration I'm talking about. 

Third, I'm going to AT LEAST want to believe that I have 20% or about $25,000 in profit - should I sell it.  In other words, if I go invest money in the stock market - and I invest in risky stocks (but they pay out pretty good) I should be able to get 20% return on that money, so similarly I would want to get 20% return on my investment in the car, because cars are considered "risky" investments.   

Which leads me to the math....

Worst case:  $110,000 - less 20% ($22,000) profit - $30,000 restoration = $58,000 on the bottom
Best case:    $130,000 - less 20% ($26,000) profit - $30,000 restoration = $74,000 on the top

If you already have people you know and trust to do the restoration - then you might lean towards the top.   If you don't know anyone then presume you'll probably get screwed by someone who shortcuts and you'll have to pay more to fix it (trial and error money wasting lesson) - then I would go for the bottom.

PS I might have the correct carburetor still around for your car - it will need to be rebuilt.  I've moved so a lot of stuff is in storage and I sold off a bunch of parts - so it may be gone.

15K$ sounds about right for body and paint, but 15K$ for the rest of the restoration sounds way low to me. Nearly everything inside the car needs replacing due to the extensive mold damage. The engine will need a complete overhaul I'm sure. I kept track of everything when I restored my Superbird and it was somewhere around 85K$ CDN and that was back between 2000 when I started and 2012 when I finished!!!!  That didn't get it to concours level but it probably is somewhere around a #1. I know it isn't a concours car because I was entered into the Cobble Beach Concours d'Elegance back in Sept and got beat by a GTO, Mustang and Chevelle!!!  That hurt!!!

I did make an offer on the car based on the replies I got but the old guy said I was way low. It is obvious now that he thinks it is worth far far more than it actually is.

PS Thx for the offer on the carb. Good to know

Jim

[1970Moparmann]

I did make an offer on the car based on the replies I got but the old guy said I was way low. It is obvious now that he thinks it is worth far far more than it actually is.

Jim

Interesting...   Tell him to get all of the NOS parts for it, and then his price might be in the ball park.   

[birdsandbees]

If you were low on that in it's current shape then it's time for me to sell mine and put the money in the bank....

At minimum you will spend 75,000 to have someone restore that car for you and I'm not sure that will cover the missing parts.