Found Daytona aero testing / prototype pictures

[70-500-SE-EXPORT]

I recently unintentionally discovered some incredible aero testing / Daytona prototype documents! I was bidding on some vintage magazines on ebay and the same seller had a listing called "mopar catalogues" which was some old direct connection catalogues and some other random stuff. This aero test book was not clearly shown I did not know I was bidding on it. Nobody bid against me because the seller ended the auction early and sold me the lot because I won a few of his other magazine auctions and asked him to sell me this last lot and ship them all together. He agreed. When I received them I was shocked to find Daytona tests/prototype pictures. I emailed the seller and asked him if he knew what it was, he did not. He said it was from his late fathers collection of stuff he collected while he was a engineer for Chrysler in the 60's-70's. I looked online and could not locate any information on the existence of these tests. The only one I was able to locate was this 71 B body "G" series aero tests here http://aerowarriors.com/gswtt.html A car which was never produced. The 69 Daytona was called "F" series.
Im not sure what I should do with this book. I feel its a piece of history that should be appreciated by a Daytona owner or club.

[hemigeno]

That is really cool stuff, thanks for posting what you have.  It looks like a much better (and perhaps complete?) copy of what Ken Noffsinger has posted via the aerowarriors.com website here:

http://www.aerowarriors.com/cda/cda_08_1269.html

You should contact Ken and see what he has on file.  I've personally given him copies of a bunch of Daytona-related historical docs also, since I agree - documents like this are most definitely pieces of history.

[Homerr]

Wow!  Any way you can do proper scans and post them?

[billssuperbird]

I have a post card with that Daytona on it.

[PettyMower]

Awesome find....thanks for posting!

[thehemikid]

Someone needs to send a complete copy to Ryan Carlyle so he can fix his "Idiotically-Ineffective" PHD.   

[70-500-SE-EXPORT]

Wow!  Any way you can do proper scans and post them?

. I attached 18 large photobucket pictures to this post. Are you unable to see them?

[Alaskan_TA]

Great find!

If you are willing to let me borrow it long enough to scan it, I would gladly host the scans at http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/aeroCars/Superbird-01.shtml & credit you as the source.

My contact information is at http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/contact.shtml

[tan top]

Wow!  Any way you can do proper scans and post them?

. I attached 18 large photobucket pictures to this post. Are you unable to see them?

wow !! this is awesome !!  great score    thanks for sharing 


   cant see the link to the 18  pictures though

would love to see them 

[70-500-SE-EXPORT]

I found out this folder was owned by one of the most famous Daytona engineers/designers!! I emailed Ken from the aero warriors site some photos of the book and he recognized the name on the front cover of G.M. Wallace.
There is a page on the aero warriors site about his achievements and biography. http://aerowarriors.com/bv.html Ken said he passed away a year ago.
So many of the tests/studies and the development of the Daytona was done by HIM and this is his actual book!!
Because of the history of this book I feel it would be better appreciated by someone who owns a Daytona. So I'm thinking of putting it on eBay.

[70-500-SE-EXPORT]

Wow!  Any way you can do proper scans and post them?

. I attached 18 large photobucket pictures to this post. Are you unable to see them?

wow !! this is awesome !!  great score    thanks for sharing  


  cant see the link to the 18  pictures though

would love to see them  

I posted them separately, this is the album. Hopefully you can see it!
Tan top I know your savvy with posting pictures. Any way you can help me insert them to this post?
http://s214.photobucket.com/user/bkl89/library/aero%20tests

[Aero426]

I found out this folder was owned by one of the most famous Daytona engineers/designers!! I emailed Ken from the aero warriors site some photos of the book and he recognized the name on the front cover of G.M. Wallace.
There is a page on the aero warriors site about his achievements and biography. http://aerowarriors.com/bv.html Ken said he passed away a year ago.
So many of the tests/studies and the development of the Daytona was done by HIM and this is his actual book!!
Because of the history of this book I feel it would be better appreciated by someone who owns a Daytona. So I'm thinking of putting it on eBay.

Hi Dave, to clarify what I told you by email yesterday, it is George's personal copy of the book.   Although he was an important part of the race group, he did not do the actual aerodynamic testing shown in the book.    He and a small number of others in the loop received copies.  

George's actual job was "performance analysis".   On the production car side, his job was to predict vehicle performance based on things like overall weight, powertrain specs, power curves and even the weather.    His predictions would be tested against what the real cars did at the proving grounds.     It was also helpful on the racing side.

George was also a race enthusiast who naturally gravitated towards that side of the business.    When the Hemi was introduced,  George predicted the speed the car would run, before the car ever hit the race track.   And he nailed it.    His most well known exploits were "ride alongs" in the floor of the race car to observe instrument readings and what was happening with the race car.     This was before and during the early days of instrumentation.    

Anyone who met George, even late in life came away with the impression that "he is a really smart guy".   In 2001 in Detroit, he gave a talk and slide show that lasted until 2 in the morning.   He was back up at 8 the next morning and said that "he didn't get to talk about everything that he wanted to".    It was a real loss to us when Parkinsons finally overcame him and took over his body.    

Doug

[cdr]

                                                                                          

[tan top]

Wow!  Any way you can do proper scans and post them?

. I attached 18 large photobucket pictures to this post. Are you unable to see them?

wow !! this is awesome !!  great score    thanks for sharing  


  cant see the link to the 18  pictures though

would love to see them  

I posted them separately, this is the album. Hopefully you can see it!
Tan top I know your savvy with posting pictures. Any way you can help me insert them to this post?
http://s214.photobucket.com/user/bkl89/library/aero%20tests

 no problem  

[tan top]

 

[Charger_Fan]

What a cool find, thanks for posting the photos!

[tan top]

 

[tan top]

 

[tan top]

 

[70-500-SE-EXPORT]

I found out this folder was owned by one of the most famous Daytona engineers/designers!! I emailed Ken from the aero warriors site some photos of the book and he recognized the name on the front cover of G.M. Wallace.
There is a page on the aero warriors site about his achievements and biography. http://aerowarriors.com/bv.html Ken said he passed away a year ago.
So many of the tests/studies and the development of the Daytona was done by HIM and this is his actual book!!
Because of the history of this book I feel it would be better appreciated by someone who owns a Daytona. So I'm thinking of putting it on eBay.

Hi Dave, to clarify what I told you by email yesterday, it is George's personal copy of the book.   Although he was an important part of the race group, he did not do the actual aerodynamic testing shown in the book.    He and a small number of others in the loop received copies. 

George's actual job was "performance analysis".   On the production car side, his job was to predict vehicle performance based on things like overall weight, powertrain specs, power curves and even the weather.    His predictions would be tested against what the real cars did at the proving grounds.     It was also helpful on the racing side.

George was also a race enthusiast who naturally gravitated towards that side of the business.    When the Hemi was introduced,  George predicted the speed the car would run, before the car ever hit the race track.   And he nailed it.    His most well known exploits were "ride alongs" in the floor of the race car to observe instrument readings and what was happening with the race car.     This was before and during the early days of instrumentation.   

Anyone who met George, even late in life came away with the impression that "he is a really smart guy".   In 2001 in Detroit, he gave a talk and slide show that lasted until 2 in the morning.   He was back up at 8 the next morning and said that "he didn't get to talk about everything that he wanted to".    It was a real loss to us when Parkinsons finally overcame him and took over his body.   

Doug

Thank you for clarifying and all the information you provided! Its a honor to have this piece of history that he owned.

Tan Top - Thank You for posting them I greatly appreciate it!

[6bblgt]

how many pages is the complete manual?

[XS29L9B2]

very interesting book 

[FJMG]

I wonder if the bubbled fenders meant the front scoops, if so then so much for the tire clearance story!

[70-500-SE-EXPORT]

I uploaded ten more pages that discuss the Daytona testing and conclusions. Very interesting to read!! I tried posting the additional pics with no luck.
link to album http://s214.photobucket.com/user/bkl89/library/aero%20tests

[odcics2]

I wonder if the bubbled fenders meant the front scoops, if so then so much for the tire clearance story!

"Bubbled fenders" refers to the side of a cars fender, not top.
Nascar allowed that for tire clearance.  Top of the fender was off limits.

On a race Daytona, the tire top hits the remaining structure under the hood before the fender reinforcement.

[tan top]

I uploaded ten more pages that discuss the Daytona testing and conclusions. Very interesting to read!! I tried posting the additional pics with no luck.
link to album http://s214.photobucket.com/user/bkl89/library/aero%20tests

[tan top]

 

[tan top]

 

[FJMG]

"Bubbled fenders" refers to the side of a cars fender, not top.
Nascar allowed that for tire clearance.  Top of the fender was off limits.

On a race Daytona, the tire top hits the remaining structure under the hood before the fender reinforcement.

Thanks for clarifying, I see them described as "exhausters" above.

[odcics2]

"Bubbled fenders" refers to the side of a cars fender, not top.
Nascar allowed that for tire clearance.  Top of the fender was off limits.

On a race Daytona, the tire top hits the remaining structure under the hood before the fender reinforcement.

Thanks for clarifying, I see them described as "exhausters" above.

My drag number chart indicates 3% less drag due to the reverse mounted fender scoops.   

[C5X DAYTONA]

"Bubbled fenders" refers to the side of a cars fender, not top.
Nascar allowed that for tire clearance.  Top of the fender was off limits.

On a race Daytona, the tire top hits the remaining structure under the hood before the fender reinforcement.

Thanks for clarifying, I see them described as "exhausters" above.

My drag number chart indicates 3% less drag due to the reverse mounted fender scoops.   

And that is odd because there is no evidence of the exhausters ever being tested.   The 3/8 car fender tops have never been cut.   No full sized test were done prior to production on the Daytona AFAIK.

[odcics2]

The very first Daytona Mule car had the scoops. At this point in time, they were developing the cone shape and figuring out the wing size. The "exhausters" were already there, in a crude form.  

Full size, on track testing is more accurate than any tunnel work, IMO.  

[farm966]

That is one ugly wing....I am glad things changed.

[odcics2]

At that point, it was a work in progress.
I have some info on wing development that I'll dig up next week.

[C5X DAYTONA]

The first sketch doesn't have the extractors.    George Wallace was very clear when he said,  "I saw this drawing and asked John Pointer if he could work on the top of the fenders as they were already close to the top of the fender with the tire and with the added downforce they would need "room."    George said John worked on those extractors "feverishly" to make sure they didn't do anything to affect the aero.  That was his "expertise" as George says.  George also said that they wanted to push up the fender on the Charger 500 but the rule book said they couldn't modify the top of the fender.  But with the new car coming out..  They could. 

Greg, they are extractors but that is not the original idea to why they were put there.   George wanted room and John made an extractor.   
   

[C5X DAYTONA]

The very first Daytona Mule car had the scoops. At this point in time, they were developing the cone shape and figuring out the wing size. The "exhausters" were already there, in a crude form.  

Full size, on track testing is more accurate than any tunnel work, IMO.  

Well yes,  But you can't pull accurate coefficient numbers on the track.  And that is what the "extractor" theory is all about.        Also noted is the full size wind tunnel test were very close to the 3/8 car test.  That is stated is the program paperwork.   "All wind tunnel work to be done with the 3/8s car."           Again,  the extractor would of never been there if George Wallace didn't want room up top.   

[70-500-SE-EXPORT]

If anyone is interested in buying George's book I listed it on eBay. It belongs with someone who knew George or has a Daytona. https://www.ebay.com/itm/322294362449