Overpriced Mopar reproduction parts Rant FB group!!!

[ECS]

Custom job is way diff than something you are listing to the public sale . Panels, grills etc are not something you can say custom job

I was using that example to stress the point but the premise is exactly the same.  The price of a product is contingent on the cost it takes to manufacture it and the demand for it.   

[Nacho-RT74]

BTW, all the profit deal seems to be going against what we call the offer and demand world. LOL

[ECS]

BTW, all the profit deal seems to be going against what we call the offer and demand world. LOL

prof·it
ˈpräfət/
noun
noun: profit; plural noun: profits

1. a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.

[ws23rt]

Hey Nacho----Ecs has made no mistakes/misstatements (that I can tell ) in his responses to your posts.

I think you may hear a response but don't connect it to your questions.

Others have said the same things that ECS has in their own words and it all comes back to the same bottom line.

A buddy may make something for you as a favor but a company will only make something for you that will pay them for their cost plus a profit.
(so I guess I just added another wording of the same thing.--again-- )

The idea that there are strong arm folks out there making you buy there stuff is just plain silly.---You/we the buyers tell them what we will pay when we buy.

[birdsandbees]

What... ECS made me an exhaust for free!! 

[ECS]

What... ECS made me an exhaust for free!!  

Contrary to what some erroneously say about most Companies, we do things like that for our Customers on a weekly basis.  

[birdsandbees]

Just wish I had my car shell back to install it !! Thanks Dave !

[Ponch ®]

I'm not on the wrong hobby, but maybe on the wrong brand ?

At the very least.

[Ponch ®]

I think you may hear a response but don't connect it to your questions.

Others have said the same things that ECS has in their own words and it all comes back to the same bottom line.

I think the 18 years of failed populist socialist economic policies hes been living under are clouding his understanding.

[ECS]

Faber Castell crayons are sold in boxes and individually, and you can buy any individual color you want on same price, but some colors are just used by professionals, some other for all the market ( school, professionals etc... )

A Molded Carpet for a Mustang is not the same price than a Molded Carpet for a Challenger ? and both are priced the same. Where is the "profit" here based on expected production and sales ? being molded, is needed a "diff tooling" ( yes I know, also way diff rate cost for the tooling than other parts, but still )

Another aspect you have not factored into your scenario(s) is the difference in product types.  There are actually 4 different types of product classifications.  Food and crayons are consumable/convenience products.  A person who uses an abundance of these types of products is a perpetual Customer.  There are no limits to the quantities they may use.  A Third Grader might go through 5 boxes of Crayons a year or more.  A person might eat 75 Hamburgers from McDonalds a year or more.  The same for products like Toilet Paper or Paper Towels.  How many sets of Carpeting are you going to buy for your Restoration Project?  How many Left Hand Fenders will you buy for your Car?  As you can see, the concept of "Supply & Demand" is completely different for certain types of products.  You can't use a single profit structure for every type of product available to the various Markets.

[Nacho-RT74]

I think you may hear a response but don't connect it to your questions.

Others have said the same things that ECS has in their own words and it all comes back to the same bottom line.

I think the 18 years of failed populist socialist economic policies hes been living under are clouding his understanding.

LOL, well, actually not, I have allways thought more less the same no matter the political and economical situation down here.

BTW what we got here is not socialism, comunism or state capitalism or whatever. What we got here is a gangster asociation heading the goverment, what wants to grab any penny for their own pokets and stay forever at any cost. Fidel Castro has being theaching them and geting his slice too. Is just that, there is not ideologism at all. We can talk about this longer ( in good therms without political debate, just explaining ) but is not the idea of the board, even less this thread

Will post an image about what we have being discussing here that could explain a bit why the diff opinions, but will do later when I'm on the PC. I THINK nobody is totally right or totally wrong

[Nacho-RT74]

I think this is something to consider on this thread. This image.

And also there is that must be considered too... if you reduce the price enough, you can get more customers getting pieces. Of course maybe not 100% increasing, but pretty sure a nice bite of the market, so also a profict based on qty and not by piece. Lot of ppl ends patching a panel instead getting a full panel or skin just because that. You guys must know and have experienced this... or getting used grilles or any used part. How many of you really have to fix a piece instead replace because the excesive price on replacement parts ?

As I told and it seems everybody overlooked my comentary. Phoenix Graphics began to sell the Phasered Rallye stripes in $400 and got reduced to $300 after a year, so it seems still at $300 there is a profit for them... where the "extra" $100 went then ? and sorry to say... maybe they read this, but I already told them and didn't pay attention to my coments, in public here and private by email so I'm not feeling bad to tell it again here: still incorrect even they could invest a good job on get them nice, but they are still incorrect.

and why I have to buy pairs instead one side... lenses, bezels, grilles... why if I need just one side ? don't sell it at half of the pair price, but don't make me to buy a pair!!!!

71/74 Used consoles Marked got reduced their price when they began to be reproed, and actually on a nice affordable price ( true they are also for E bodies ). In fact these used consoles are now hard to sale, unless they are nice and  in any color, not black. Russ ( Moparguy ) tried to sell a really nice console he had, long time ago, and had to reduce its price because he published at the same time these came out new repro, and also being NICE pieces. I haven't got the repro console, but the door lid and is allmost perfect! NOS consoles also got reduced!

When we just had the Palco seat backs at $230 rate, then a new repro piece came into the market on same price. Can't tell the brand, but they began to be sold by RM Restorations ( not anymore on bussines ) and now they are at Classic Industries ( who I got them ). Once again on an affordable price for a WAY BETTER quality product. I have got both and can tell you for sure. Of course a best product takes more money to be manufactured, but... they got to be sold at same price than the Palco pieces of "shit" ( not worse than Accuform pieces though ). So there was a BIG profit on Palco pieces IMHO, which by the way are not made colored, but painted... the newer pices are MADE in color

I'm sure if another manufacturer with a good quality product enters on the body panels market, all panels will reduce the price to compete. I'm pretty sure part of the AMD Chevy products are also cheaper because there are more manufacturers, true on a variety of qualities and prices... we don't have that for Mopars, so prices are partially abused for that

I don't think I am totally wrong on this. There is an abuse on some or even MOST of the parts.

[ECS]

And also there is that must be considered too...

Have you noticed that in every scenario you talk about, you have no information or numbers to back your hypotheticals?  You're asking questions about why someone charged a price and then you give answers based on your biased views.  Your hypotheticals are based on nothing more than your limited knowledge about a topic that you have no qualified information to back your conclusions.  You continue to come up with explanations that satisfy your curiosity, while ignoring the real life explanations provided by those who do this for a living.

You asked a rhetorical question about why Phoenix Graphics was able to lower their price ($100) after having one particular product on the market for about a year.  Once again, you used your unsubstantiated opinion to try and hypothesize the reasons why.  You don't know what it cost to manufacture that item, the demand for it, the circumstances surrounding the Vendor's Inventory, the possibility of an upgraded product or some other variable.  With that said, why don't you provide me with the rationale for what I did with this product.  

I manufactured 1972 Pontiac Trans Am 455 CID Emission Decals.  They are made with different materials than most of the other Emission Decals we manufacture and cost approximately $1200 in materials & layout time to reproduce them.  Unlike the rest of Emissions decals that we offer, these ended up being a very slow moving item.  So slow, that we have sold NONE to date.  They retail for $9 each.  We manufacture all of our Decals in house and I had 20 produced in the initial run.  Based on those numbers, I have $60 invested/amortized in each Decal. ($60 X 20 = $1200) If someone were to offer me $5 each for the entire inventory of 20, I would accept that price ($100 total) to at least recoup something and cut my loss of $1100.  If I hadn't explained the specifics surrounding that ONE particular scenario, would you have surmised that we had made so much profit that we were able to lower the price on those 1972 Trans Am Decals?

[ECS]

When we just had the Palco seat backs at $230 rate, then a new repro piece came into the market on same price. Can't tell the brand, but they began to be sold by RM Restorations ( not anymore on bussines ) and now they are at Classic Industries ( who I got them ). Once again on an affordable price for a WAY BETTER quality product. I have got both and can tell you for sure. Of course a best product takes more money to be manufactured, but... they got to be sold at same price than the Palco pieces of "shit" ( not worse than Accuform pieces though ). So there was a BIG profit on Palco pieces IMHO, which by the way are not made colored, but painted... the newer pices are MADE in color

I don't think I am totally wrong on this.

You are wrong because you don't understand how business works or the concept of buying power.  Consider your example above.  You compare the buying power of a small Company to that of a large Company.  Joe Smith's Auto Parts at the corner of Elm & Main Street, sells Valvoline Oil for $1.49 a quart.  Autozone sells the exact same quart of Valvoline Oil for 89 cents.  Why do you think there is such a difference in pricing?  Do you think it's because Joe Smith is gouging people and making HUGE PROFITS, or that he doesn't have the buying power that Autozone has, as it relates to the economies of scale?

[ECS]

I'm sure.......don't think I am totally wrong on this.

Instead of wasting our time debating hypotheticals and nothing to support the facts, let's try doing this.  From now on when you use a specific product for your examples, please provide the following unknowns.  Give us the cost of raw materials involved with manufacturing the item, inbound freight costs on those materials, product engineering costs of the item, licensing costs associated with the item, fixed overhead costs associated with the item, variable costs associated with the item, marketing research and target markets of the item, projected annual sales figures for the item, the depreciation of equipment associated with the manufacturing the item, the labor/employee costs as it relates to the production of the item, advertising costs associated with the item, liability insurance costs associated with the item, inventory (floor space per square foot) costs associated with the item, packaging costs of the item, estimated outgoing shipping costs for the item, etc........  If you can provide those costs to the products you continue to talk about, we can have an intelligent discussion about the profits related to them.

[DAY CLONA]

Dunno, why, but just thought on this...

Maybe we can push a bit the manufacturers?

Your barking up the wrong tree about the "cottage" manufacturing industry of the collector/hobby car market and the misconceptions you have about it's marketing/sales...you want REAL price gouging, collusion, strong arm sales tactics...concentrate your energy on the Pharmaceutical companies 

[Nacho-RT74]

So, definitelly everybody says I'm wrong about all those manufacturers and vendors who use the Mopar initial or last name when reproducing and selling parts are overpricing trusting on our lotalty ( not everyone, but most of them )

Ok well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/131970426578

https://www.ebay.com/itm/142151721147

https://www.ebay.com/itm/222280816327

https://www.ebay.com/itm/302089332434

Classic industries is not a manufacturer, is a seller. Wondering whats the manufacturer real price of the grilles.

Nuff said

[ECS]

Classic industries is not a manufacturer, is a seller. Wondering whats the manufacturer real price of the grilles.

No one said Classic Industries was a manufacturer.  They buy and resell products.  That's what I was referring to when I talked about their "buying power" as it relates to the economies of scale.

So help us understand what you are trying to convey here.  You post 4 different examples of rivets that are not even the same type of product.  Some are GM (stainless steel) and a couple are Chrysler (regular steel) versions.  Two of the sellers are small Companies and 2 are individuals who are not Vendors and are just re-selling them.  Not to mention that one of those rivet sellers are offering NOS examples.  They're not even reproduction pieces.  He had them in his "tool box" for close to 30 years.    Are you trying to justify your view about the "real price of grilles", by using examples of rivets offered by people who are not vendors?  You're just shot gunning all over the place with no real direction in an attempt to prove your unsubstantiated opinion.  

Could you at least provide us with the amounts those Companies/Individuals are paying for those rivets?  It's hard to have a factual discussion about price gouging if you can't tell us how much they are costing those who are re-selling them.  With that said, please give us the amounts those 4 different entities are paying for their rivets before re-selling them on eBay.

[nge]

Well, not all industry motivation is pure. Look how the market treats AMC owners!
I have had many classic cars and I tell everyone this,
You can buy a Mopar cheaper than many Fords or Chevys, but the parts  much more expensive.
If the industry keeps this up Mopars will drop in popularity for those of us who like to restore, and less parts will be made. 
We all say we understand that the market drives supply, but sometimes you can grow your core market base with more products and with reasonable prices  (if you care about growing your market base).

[Lennard]

Well, not all industry motivation is pure. Look how the market treats AMC owners!
I have had many classic cars and I tell everyone this,
You can buy a Mopar cheaper than many Fords or Chevys, but the parts  much more expensive.
If the industry keeps this up Mopars will drop in popularity for those of us who like to restore, and less parts will be made. 
We all say we understand that the market drives supply, but sometimes you can grow your core market base with more products and with reasonable prices  (if you care about growing your market base).

[ECS]

Well, not all industry motivation is pure.

You are correct but if you look at the examples he used to validate his point, there is no consistency.  He is using people who are not Vendors and other individuals that sell NOS parts, in an attempt to "prove" profit margins of Vendor sold components.  Individual people, re-selling items that they bought at retail and/or NOS parts have no correlation to reproduction parts that are sold by Vendors.  There is no qualified or accurate conclusion that can result from comparing different and unrelated parts.

[Ponch ®]

Well, not all industry motivation is pure.

You are correct but if you look at the examples he used to validate his point, there is no consistency.  He is using people who are not Vendors and other individuals that sell NOS parts, in an attempt to "prove" profit margins of Vendor sold components.  Individual people, re-selling items that they bought at retail and/or NOS parts have no correlation to reproduction parts that are sold by Vendors.  There is no qualified or accurate conclusion that can result from comparing different and unrelated parts.

I think nacho's got a case of "i know in wrong, but damned if i admit to it because im now in too deep, so im just gonna grasp for straws".

[Lennard]

And you guys have a case of "I can't respect other people's opinion, gotta argue till he gives in."

[ECS]

And you guys have a case of "I can't respect other people's opinion, gotta argue till he gives in."

Erroneous unsubstantiated "opinions" about other people's facts can also come across as disingenuous and disrespectful.

[Lennard]

And you guys have a case of "I can't respect other people's opinion, gotta argue till he gives in."

Erroneous unsubstantiated "opinions" about other people's facts can also come across as disingenuous and disrespectful.

Using fancy words doesn't make a person smart.