Overpriced Mopar reproduction parts Rant FB group!!!

[Nacho-RT74]

Dunno, why, but just thought on this...

Maybe we can push a bit the manufacturers? I'm tired about manufacturer and sellers telling us THERE IS NOT ENOUGH MARKET for X or Y car!!! yes there is a market, what we don't have is decent prices for the parts on the market! YOU NEED TO MAKE THE MARKET!

join if you think is a good idea:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/149414152185365/

also works for quality testimonials against prices of what you get!

[ws23rt]

If a needed part (let's say a pie tin for example) were to be reproduced from scratch.

Making one could cost a fabricator thousands of dollars.---$3000?
Making two may cost a few hundred more.--$3000 + $300? =$3300 for two=$1650 ea.
Making ten perhaps another few hundred more.--$3600= $360ea.
For this example a fabricator will pay this much to make them. So profit incentive is added.

I quess the only practical way to "push" a manufacturer is for a "seller" to make a deal with them for a desired part at an agreed quantity for an agreed price per part.

That seller now has a batch of parts are for sale and if enough buyers come through everyone is happy.

Imaging how many millions of dollars it would cost to make just one complete charger from scratch.

A company will not spend money to help others out.  They spend their money to make enough to pay their bills and be able to open their doors the next day.

[Nacho-RT74]

Ok... Let's say, pair of GTO 69 grilles ( true without the headlight bezel ).... Less than $200

Pair of Charger 71/74 grilles... $1200

So... What about who made the GTO grilles? Which BTW is only for GTO and not Lemans or Tempest!


Another example...

Reflective phasered 73/74 Rallye stripes... They began in $400. A year later they got reduced to $300. So where it went the $100 extras if they are still listed at $300 years later? That it means still at $300 were viable.


Dodge Challenger ( to say any Mopar sheetmetal ) quarter panel on $600 rate!

Camaro... $340

BOTH AMD! Both pony cars

So you still think there is not an overprice to our MOPAR$?

[Ponch ®]

Ok... Let's say, pair of GTO 69 grilles ( true without the headlight bezel ).... Less than $200

Pair of Charger 71/74 grilles... $1200

So... What about who made the GTO grilles? Which BTw is only for GTO and not Lemans o Tempest!

Economies of scale + demand.

Theres about a billion GTO's out there. Maybe a few hundred / low thousands 71-74 chargers. The manufacturer has to invest money to develop and manufacture the parts - the "set up" cost (for the sake of this example, let's assume this includes the tooling, materials, and labor). Let's say its costs $100,000 to "set up" the manufacturing process for either the GTO or the Charger grille.

With the GTO, however, there's demand for 500 grilles. So the manufacturer can sell them for $250 each and earn a $25,000 profit (5000x250=125,000).

With the other (the 71-74), there may be demand for only 100 grilles. In order for the manufacturer to recoup his $100,000 investment, he will have to sell them at least 1,250  to make the same $25,000 profit (100x1250=125,000)

[Nacho-RT74]

Then we can also discuss about why I have to buy a pair, instead one side if needed

[Nacho-RT74]

Of course, at that price never will get demand!

Thats the bigger excuse!

Down here EVERY 71/74 Charger is needing grilles. That could mean 100 grilles JUST HERE! Ok, let's say just 50!

Would need to take numbers too, about how many 69 GTOs were made and then how many 73/74 Chargers were made!

[Nacho-RT74]

Really, I can't understand Mopar guys justifying this!

Ok, lets say even in that way, less 73/74 Chargers produced... But $1000 difference? No way!

Thats why there is not a market for them!

[ws23rt]

I'm not up to speed on how many GTO fans there are that would make up the "market" for grills for their cars.

My point is that the asking prices for parts reflect the cost to make them vs the number of buyers looking for those parts.

Some folks in the hobby have made stuff for themselves and will help out another with what they can do but usually this sort of thing is for the fun of helping another in need.--Time and hours spent equal money and "good deals" are at someones expense.

The goverment tends to sometimes try do do what you are asking for.---When they push beyond the bottom line the company will go under because the "market" will not pay for what they don't want to afford.

The "MARKET" is not mandated.--- The "market" is us and how we feel about the value of stuff.--

[Nacho-RT74]

I bet you, more ppl would be interested on new parts than hunt used parts due the price!

Once again... Where went the $100 extras for the rallye stripes if they are still being sold on the reduced price years later?

[Nacho-RT74]

I posted about GTO grilles just using an example, but search ANY brand car repro parts and compare with any other Mopar$ repro parts around!

Go to Mustang unlimited! They even have two prices rates options... Licensed parts and not!

THEY HAVE THE MILODON BRAKE BOOSTER CHECK VALVE in $19! ( or it was last time I checked ) SEARCH IT FOR A MOPAR$ now, being same piece!


I bought a NOS "FORD" brake booster check valve in $25! exactly same piece than the one my car have, just diff box! They use to be rated between  $60-90 just because is a "Mopar"

EXACTLY SAME PIECE!

So you still think?

[A12 Superbee]

3D printing will soon render high priced plastic parts from traditional sources obsolete. They probably know this and are trying to gouge as much out of the consumer as they can before it happens. In fact, I'm vertain that you could 3D print sections of grill today that would suffice as repair sections.

I have no doubt that the cost of parts is reflected by the lack of numbers in the customer base in Mopars but not in all cases, for example take Coronet front fenders, no-one makes them for 68-69 and these are very popular and numerous. AMD won't make a 69 fender, I know because I asked them, but why not make a generic fender without the headlight brackets which will cover both years? The fender is identical except for the marker light (you self install this) and the headlight brackets (again, you use your old ones).

You can't tell me that there would not be a market big enough for 68-69 Coronet fenders, but manufacturers pussy out because they have not listened to the customers and if they can't recoup the costs of the setup with the initial batch, then they won't even make the mould/press.

Its more about making money fast than actually providing a profit over a lengthy time.

[Nacho-RT74]

Do you want to talk about numbers?

Ok here we go:

69 GTOs

http://www.gtoheaven.com/gtostats/69gto.html

73/74 Chargers are 3 times more of that!.. Just SEs are allmost double

[69CoronetRT]

Do uou want to talk about numbers?

Ok here we go:

69 GTOs

http://www.gtoheaven.com/gtostats/69gto.html

73/74 Chargers are double of that!

And 1/10 in demand.

If you believe you understand the market, and can make money at it, then I encourage you to develop, manufacture, market and sell the product.

[Nacho-RT74]

Well... The fact is I created the group on FB maybe to get somekind of support! debating, testimonials about quality! Etc...

[69CoronetRT]

Well... The fact is I created the group on FB maybe to get somekind of support! debating, testimonials about quality! Etc...

Support is not r&d.

Profit will be your support.

[Nacho-RT74]

Once again, 1/10 in demand I bet you partially due the price.

Let's talk then about 71 Charger grilles then, what could get more demand than 73/74! And production pretty much similar to the 69 GTO. AND both cars priced around the same on the market!

[JB400]

The price you pay for being different.

[69CoronetRT]

Once again, 1/10 in demand I bet you partially due the price.

No. I'm pretty sure there are other reasons a '69 GTO is more in demand than a '74 Charger besides the price of restoration parts.

[RallyeMike]

Hey Nacho: Start your own reproduction company and prove all these businesses wrong. You have my support.

[69bfan]

I have been involved in this hobby for well over 30 years in all areas of its evolution.  I truly love the hobby, but at this point, it is more of a business than a hobby.  We are passionate about our families, our friends, our sports and hobbies.  But when you are the manufacture and you are putting up the money behind a project, how many of you will be willing to loose money consistently on products that will not produce a positive profit.  The simple fact that has been echoed earlier is the supply vs. demand.  People always ask me why is it so much more to do a Chrysler piece than it is to do a Chrevolet piece.  You will simply sell more of the product.  Even if you compare a 69 Charger to a 69 GTO, the demand for the GTO pieces will out weigh those for the Charger pieces.  And when you talk about doing the pieces like for the Ram Air 3 or 4 setups, then they are not cheap as well.
The problem is that most people no matter what the model or manufacture will ask for the lowest priced piece.  For example, roof rail weatherstrips for a 66 to 67 B-Body from one well known manufacture can be purchased for $70 to $85 depending upon vendor.  The second manufacture of the same year model roof rail seal retails in the $150 to $165 range.  The cheaper set will likely leak and the glass will not roll up properly into the seal.  The more expensive set will almost always function properly if installed as directed.  The profit margin is also better for the more inexpensive set for the vendor.  Even when I express to the customers the issues with the cheaper ones, I would say at least 65% of the people will buy the cheaper ones.  Price makes a huge difference in the decision process even when you sacrifice it for quality. 
People have no ideal on the cost to manufacture a part.  We have several new parts in the development phase and these are what I consider pretty simplistic parts.  When you start to cost out parts, look what all goes into one.  Look at a 70 Challenger fender, there is the headlight panel plus the inner fender brace.  You do not have that on a 69 Camaro fender.  But there is a considerable amount of extra tooling required to produce the Challenger fender vs. the Camaro fender which all equates to extra cost not even accounting for the demand difference. 
People will say they will purchase the items until they realize that the cost is more than what they can stomach.  Thankfully, the Mopar crowd is very product loyal, but after a point, then it becomes even more than what most can justify.  No different than supporting your favorite sports team or restaurant.  When you can no longer financially support that effort, you will probably move onto a different venue or cutback and that is what we see as well from the manufacturing or selling aspect.  If people ever wonder how big this hobby is, then Google SEMA and see the impact on the market place.
I am not trying to step onto anyone's toes as I truly love the hobby, but manufactures from the giants like AMD to medium size manufactures to someone developing a product in his shop all need the support of the hobby to continue to bring new product to the market. Otherwise it is just like the shows and the parts, there will continue to be less and less available and like our NOS parts, the reproduction pieces will become as coveted as well when they are discontinued.   

[polywideblock]

sorry don't do Facebook or the other ones        

repop parts have always been twice as expensive as brand a or b parts that's the price for individuality

if you want cheap get a "bellybutton " car, if you want individuality stay with mopars

its why you only see a dozen or so mopars  at a large "all brands show " we drive the cars individuals like  ,we aren't part of the heard  

   

[Nacho-RT74]

I can understand, but I think there is a limit for it. That's why I posted similar vs similar. I understand some parts difference, like fenders as mentioned... But once again I'm compairing similar vs similar. Check for 67/69 Barracuda quarter if you want, which is even MORE SIMILAR to the 70 Camaro.

Once again, there is a limit for everything.

I can understand Mopar parts won't be sold the same than GMC parts. But... $1000 difference between somekind similar parts? That's way unreasonable!

I already posted several examples, and would be able to post several dozens of examples more...

Judge yourself

I'm still wondering about where it went the $100 extras for the Rallye stripes if they are already a bussiness on the actual price... If not, they weren't available anymore. BTW, still made incorrect even with the "licensed product" mark.


Then we also have another problem: I have still to buy full sets and can't get a side piece. ( for example, just left or right parking lense, or tail light ).

On a side note. You can notice how used 70/74 E/B bodies consoles decreased prices when they float up as repro on market!

I still can't understand you need to spend around US$2500 to get a FULL SETUP 68/70 FOR ALL B BODIES ( and Not just Charger ) center console... and even less ppl affected agreed on that.

I'm done, even with all the "profit" arguments, is a fact Mopar reproduction parts are way overpriced

[Lennard]

Mopar parts are over prized...and I think that is because the manufacturers know that Mopar owners are very brand loyal and buy it anyway.  Just like myself...I'd rather pay more and drive a '68 or '69 Charger than just another Camaro.
Example: my grille frame, new grille and new grille trim together add up to about $2000.
My dash frame, dash pads, new gauges etc. together add up to about another $2000.
That's $4000 for just two items needed to restore my '68 Charger.

[Ponch ®]

I have been involved in this hobby for well over 30 years in all areas of its evolution.  I truly love the hobby, but at this point, it is more of a business than a hobby.  We are passionate about our families, our friends, our sports and hobbies.  But when you are the manufacture and you are putting up the money behind a project, how many of you will be willing to loose money consistently on products that will not produce a positive profit.  The simple fact that has been echoed earlier is the supply vs. demand.  People always ask me why is it so much more to do a Chrysler piece than it is to do a Chrevolet piece.  You will simply sell more of the product.  Even if you compare a 69 Charger to a 69 GTO, the demand for the GTO pieces will out weigh those for the Charger pieces.  And when you talk about doing the pieces like for the Ram Air 3 or 4 setups, then they are not cheap as well.
The problem is that most people no matter what the model or manufacture will ask for the lowest priced piece.  For example, roof rail weatherstrips for a 66 to 67 B-Body from one well known manufacture can be purchased for $70 to $85 depending upon vendor.  The second manufacture of the same year model roof rail seal retails in the $150 to $165 range.  The cheaper set will likely leak and the glass will not roll up properly into the seal.  The more expensive set will almost always function properly if installed as directed.  The profit margin is also better for the more inexpensive set for the vendor.  Even when I express to the customers the issues with the cheaper ones, I would say at least 65% of the people will buy the cheaper ones.  Price makes a huge difference in the decision process even when you sacrifice it for quality. 
People have no ideal on the cost to manufacture a part.  We have several new parts in the development phase and these are what I consider pretty simplistic parts.  When you start to cost out parts, look what all goes into one.  Look at a 70 Challenger fender, there is the headlight panel plus the inner fender brace.  You do not have that on a 69 Camaro fender.  But there is a considerable amount of extra tooling required to produce the Challenger fender vs. the Camaro fender which all equates to extra cost not even accounting for the demand difference. 
People will say they will purchase the items until they realize that the cost is more than what they can stomach.  Thankfully, the Mopar crowd is very product loyal, but after a point, then it becomes even more than what most can justify.  No different than supporting your favorite sports team or restaurant.  When you can no longer financially support that effort, you will probably move onto a different venue or cutback and that is what we see as well from the manufacturing or selling aspect.  If people ever wonder how big this hobby is, then Google SEMA and see the impact on the market place.
I am not trying to step onto anyone's toes as I truly love the hobby, but manufactures from the giants like AMD to medium size manufactures to someone developing a product in his shop all need the support of the hobby to continue to bring new product to the market. Otherwise it is just like the shows and the parts, there will continue to be less and less available and like our NOS parts, the reproduction pieces will become as coveted as well when they are discontinued.   

[6spd68]

That's $4000 for just two items needed to restore my '68 Charger.

That battle consistently has me reconsidering my restoration...  "Bust out another thousand", seems to be a constant theme...