69 Charger RT/ 4 spd./ Track pack info??

[Pistolpete]

Hey gang,

I'm in the process of purchasing a 1969 RT/4spd/track pack and I am told that there were only about 3 - 4000 of this particular charger ever made - does anyone have any info on this - is it true? and where would I go to confirm these numbers. (I have checked the VIN and build plate to verify its the real deal. Is it the track pack or the 440 4 spd. combo that make it so rare?

What do you think this car is actually worth, bellieve me I know numbers on 69's have gone nuts lately!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

ps.....what ever happened to the VIN Decoder from the old site??

Thanks

Pete

[hemigeno]

Pete,

In 1969 the A33 Track Pak (primarily consisting of the 3.54 Dana) option was available on 440/426 4-speed cars only.

With that said, the most publicized production numbers I've seen on 4-speed '69 Chargers are as follows:

R/T 440 -  3,605
R/T 426 -  207
Charger500 440 & 426 - no 4-speed/auto breakdown known - the experts can't even agree on how many 500's were made...   
Daytona 440 - 139
Daytona 426 - 22

There is some question as to whether the above numbers are exact, and whether or not they include Canadian cars.  That will get you in the ballpark though, for sure.

Additionally, many of the 4-speed cars listed above were equipped with the 4.10 Dana SuperTrack Pak.  The 3.54 and the 4.10 were the only ratio options (and the Dana60 the only axle option) when you ordered a 440/426 4-speed car, but I have never seen a breakdown of which ratio was more prevalent.  The 4.10 Dana60 could be ordered with the 727 auto trans as the Super Performance Axle Package, but not the 3.54 Dana.

As you can tell, it's almost impossible to say exactly how many cars had the Track Pak option.  More than likely, there are a lot less than the roughly 4,000 4-speed R/T-500-Daytonas.

You have a relatively-rare, VERY cool car if it's a 4-speed R/T.  Hope the sale goes well for you!

Geno

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Pete, welcome to the site!   

Yes the made around 3,600 440 4 speed R/T's

The track pack was standard with a 4 speed.   The super track pack was optional (4.10 Dana)

As far as it being rare, I would say not really.      Granted the 4 speed R/T's are "rarer" & more desireable than the automatic version, they are not "1 of 1" rare.

In #1-2 condition, a 440 4 speed R/T could fetch 35-45k.

Please check out www.1969chargerregistry.com as well

Chris

PS---Geno beat me to it!!

[694spdRT]

Welcome to the site Pistolpete!  Its always nice to see another 4 speed R/T join our group. 

The above info looks right to me....any Charger is good property and the 440 4 speed combo makes it that much better IMO.

Are you looking at a project car or a restored one? One thing you probably have already checked or should check is that the Dana 60 axle is still there as they have a habit of often being MIA. The other missing and often expensive items with project cars are consoles, correct shifters, and all the neccessary 4 speed items.

As far as value goes 6T9 is probably pretty close on the value. You just don't see many original 4 speed's around much. Project car's can vary depending on condition, but decent and complete #'s matching examples are usually bringing 15K or more. Then it has to be restored so figure on at least doubling that.   

Good luck with your purchase.

[Pistolpete]

Thanks Guys,

I will post some pics once I actually close the deal.
The car is all there (all the pieces are there at least) but she definitely needs restoration, the original engine is long gone but the body is in decent shape and may even be original paint.
I will be looking for some more advice on where to start my resto, looks like the I've found a good spot!!

thanks again

Pete

[az69rtcharger]

I would be curious to see how many of us on this site have 69 R/Ts with 440's, 4spd's, dana's with 4:10's and the super track pac's

[bullit68]

not all 69 4 spd's were track pack cars.its true that all 4 spd's came standard with the dana 354,but that does not make it a track pack car.the optional track pack consisted of ps,p disk brakes,26"rad,tach and probably some other options i cant think of now.

[694spdRT]

not all 69 4 spd's were track pack cars.its true that all 4 spd's came standard with the dana 354,but that does not make it a track pack car.the optional track pack consisted of ps,p disk brakes,26"rad,tach and probably some other options i cant think of now.

I agree with 6T9...the track pak is standard with a 440 4 speed R/T. All the track pak option came with was the 3.54 Dana, Sure grip, 7 blade torque drive fan, and Hemi suspension. A/C could also not be ordered. The hemi suspension was standard on all R/T's so that's out and the clutch fan was standard on the 4 speeds so I would say you got the track pak whether you wanted it or not.

Other than a 26" radiator, which varies from the 055 to 054 depending on the engine tranny and axle, the options you mentioned are additional items and not included with the track pak. My car has the track pak and separate options for power drum brakes, power steering(with a cooler BTW), and there was no factory tach.

 

[Pistolpete]

So basically, no matter how you slice it there were still only 3600 of these things ever made and of those who knows how many actually still remain? So bottom line I'm feelin' pretty lucky right about now!

[Shakey]

The hemi suspension was standard on all R/T's

Other than the odd-ball leaf springs, what differentiates between a standard suspension and an R/T / Hemi suspension?

Sway Bar?
Torsion Bars?
Control Arms - Upper & Lower?
Spindles?
Shocks?

[hemigeno]

not all 69 4 spd's were track pack cars.its true that all 4 spd's came standard with the dana 354,but that does not make it a track pack car.the optional track pack consisted of ps,p disk brakes,26"rad,tach and probably some other options i cant think of now.

bullit, I think you're confusing Track Pak with the Super Track Pak.   Pretty much the only difference (besides the gear ratio) is that the 4.10 Super Track Pak included Power Disc Brakes.   In '69, there were no other axle options for a 4-speed 440/426 car besides these two Paks.   You're right, in that not every 4-speed car was a SuperTrackPak car.   I'm with az69 - I'm curious as to how many of our forum's 4-speed Chargers had the 4.10's vs. the 3.54s.   Both of my cars are 3.54s.

Below is a scan from the Data Book listing the Accessory Group Axle Packages.   There were more axle ratios available for non-HP cars, but that is the complete list for the HP cars.

Shakey, the "Hemi" suspension (I still don't think "Hemi" is appropriate, since the same suspension was put in 100x as many 440 cars) consisted basically of heavier torsion bars, asymmetrical SS leaf springs, and heavier shocks.   The Sway bar was the same, as were the control arms & spindles.

Geno

[694spdRT]

This info is credited to the '70 Charger Registry

A33 Track Pak 1462 built 15.6% $142.85 Not available with Air Conditioning
3.54:1 Ratio, 9.75" DANA 60 Axle,
Sure Grip, 7 Blade Torque Drive Fan (std 426),
26" HP Radiator with Fan Shroud (std 426),


A34 Super Track Pak 394 built 4.2% $235.65 Not available with Air Conditioning
4.10:1 Ratio, 9/75" DANA 60 Axle,
Sure Grip, 7 Blade Torque Drive Fan (std 426),
26" HP Radiator with Fan Shroud (std 426),
Power Disc Brakes

In 1970 4.2% were built with the A34 track pak and 15.6% were built with the A33. I would say the numbers would be similar in 1969. So would 25% of 4 speeds be a good guess.  

[Ghoste]

I thought the sway bar was heavier with the optional suspension? 

[Shakey]

I thought the sway bar was heavier with the optional suspension?  

I thought so too!  I thought that there were two different sizes available.

[az69rtcharger]

Ok I posted a poll for all us that have Track Pacs or Super Trac Pac Charger R/Ts on this site. Thanks Hemigeno for asking the question also.

[hemigeno]

The ol' 1969 parts book calls out the same number for all B-bodies (2462885), not just Chargers.   It may have been different in other years, but there's only one size listed in 1969.   Of course, just because I found it in print somewhere doesn't make it absolutely true either.

I was looking in the 1969 Dealer Data Book, to decipher if there was an indicated difference in sway bar diameters.   The description of the standard Charger's Torsion-Aire suspension makes no mention of a sway bar at all.   The rundown of equipment on the HD Torsion-Aire lists a 0.94" diameter sway bar.   Later in the descriptions, it lists that the Charger's front suspension is Torsion Bars with Sway Bar, but makes no distinction as to whether all cars got sway bars, or what their diameters might be.   The 1969 Charger brochure does list a front sway bar as standard equipment on all "standard" Charger models.   The Service Manual does not distinguish between sizes of sway bars either, and doesn't even list the sway bar in the specification section.

I'm just going by what I've found, but it doesn't appear that a base Charger's sway bar is any different than an R/T's.

Wouldn't be the first time I learned something though if this is not the case...

[Ghoste]

I stand corrected.   I have to now concur with Geno.  I've been going through my parts catalogs as well as the Galen Guruvier white books and I only come up with a single bar from 67 through 69.   It was smaller in the years before and after but during that time it was the same for all the B-body lineup.

[Shakey]

My reason for saying so was I recall reading about the "R/T" option and how you got the "Hemi" suspension which included a 0.94" sway bar, which leads me to believe there were others? 

I am just glad I got the R/T option on my car.

[Ghoste]

Well, I figured out what confused me.  It was the Mopar Peformance manual.  It talks about two different diameters in the section on production sway bars.  Technically, they're right, they just failed to mention at which time those two sizes were available.

[1969 Hooligan]

I would really like to know of those 3600 Charger R/T 440 4-speed cars - How many are still running with their original number's matching 440's?

It seems that 95% of the R/T's on eBay are missing the key ingredient... the original 440 that it rolled off the assembly line with. You must be careful when reading these ads. They may have a "date correct" motor.

It saddens me to see these eBay ads posted... "REAL R/T" and when you get to the bottom of the description you soon realize the original motor has since long been gone.

So gentlemen, of those 3600 R/T 440 4-speed '69 Chargers, how many would you estimate are numbers matching, or at least have the assembly line motor?


P.S. I have an ALL NUMBERS MATCHING 1969 R/T 440 4-Speed Track Pak Charger. R6 Red, R6 Red Roof (no vinyl) Black Interior, White Stripe - and love it!

[6bblgt]

never going to get an accurate number for what's left, regardless of condition, but - lesser quality collector vehicles get "passed" around with greater frequency than the "GOOD ONES"!

but some of the above unanswered questions:

the 1969 Charger R/T came STANDARD with the 440HP 4bbl "MAGNUM" engine (E86) & a 727HD automatic transmission (D32)
the HD 18-spline PP833 4-speed manual transmission (D21) was a NO-COST OPTION, but it mandated/required the purchase of an OPTIONAL axle package:
* A33 - TRACK PAK (3.54:1 DANA 60) OPTIONAL at $142.85
* A34 - SUPER TRACK PAK (4.10:1 DANA 60) OPTIONAL at $256.45 (difference: gearing & includes power disc brakes)

the '69 Charger numbers are really messed up   I'll "ASSUME" because of the varying totals of 500s & Daytonas - but I've seen (& based on the percentages):

XS29 + E86 + D21 ~ 3,643 (+/-18) cars
XS29 + E86 + D21 + TRACK PAK ~ 3,192 (+/-9) cars ***** ~87.6%
XS29 + E86 + D21 + SUPER TRACK PAK ~ 451 (+/-9) cars ***** ~12.4% (1 of 8 440/4-spd cars)

[VegasCharger]

For a second there I thought "Ghoste" was back. Then I realized that this thread was bumped after a 11+ year hiatus.

[DixieRestoParts]

I would really like to know of those 3600 Charger R/T 440 4-speed cars - How many are still running with their original number's matching 440's?

It seems that 95% of the R/T's on eBay are missing the key ingredient... the original 440 that it rolled off the assembly line with. You must be careful when reading these ads. They may have a "date correct" motor.

It saddens me to see these eBay ads posted... "REAL R/T" and when you get to the bottom of the description you soon realize the original motor has since long been gone.

So gentlemen, of those 3600 R/T 440 4-speed '69 Chargers, how many would you estimate are numbers matching, or at least have the assembly line motor?


P.S. I have an ALL NUMBERS MATCHING 1969 R/T 440 4-Speed Track Pak Charger. R6 Red, R6 Red Roof (no vinyl) Black Interior, White Stripe - and love it!

I would hazard a guess of 10% and that's purely based on my personal experiences with these cars over the last 34+ years.

I Like your car, I have one similar. It's an R/T SE Super Trak Pak, R6 Red with White Top, White Stripe and Black Interior. Numbers matching.

[69rtse4spd]

Old thread, & I may or may not have taken the poll, but yes, I have one also as my name on hear implies. You think he ever got the car & if so, what happened to it.   

[HANDM]

Old thread, & I may or may not have taken the poll, but yes, I have one also as my name on hear implies. You think he ever got the car & if so, what happened to it.   

Send him a PM, he was active last month....