Argh. Oil on Plugs and Well (not pretty pics!)

[HeavyFuel]

This can't be good.  

Long story short.....attempting to replace the plugs today, found cylinder number seven looking like this.  Number five was a little better but still not great.   

I'm afraid to look at all the other plugs.  Stopped there and pulled the manifold and valley pan gasket to check for leaks, thinking that somehow leaking oil from the pan might make it's way into the cylinder and foul things up.    

But this wet?   Looks serious.

Thing is, the engine is running pretty good, although a bit rich over the last couple weeks.   And it doesn't push any blue on start up or running.

[HeavyFuel]

Number 5 cyl., better, but still a crappy plug and oil around the well.

Some of the gunk on the pan is a brush-on sealant that I used instead of the paper gasket.....maybe that was a mistake as well.  

Do most of you guys use the paper gaskets?   I thought most didn't.  

[HeavyFuel]

Sooooo....if I "luck out", and it's not the rings or the valve stem seals, and the oil has been making it's way to the plugs via the intake.......will I be okay to replace the pan/seal and put in new plugs.....problem solved?

Or does this level of crap that is probably in the cylinders warrant a total top end disassemble?



Also, when peeking through the runners to see the intake valves, oil can be seen collecting near each valve.   but not just one valve, all eight cylinders.  It THAT normal?    Cant really see it in the pic...but its in there.

[garner7555]

Sooooo....if I "luck out", and it's not the rings or the valve stem seals, and the oil has been making it's way to the plugs via the intake.......will I be okay to replace the pan/seal and put in new plugs.....problem solved?

Or does this level of crap that is probably in the cylinders warrant a total top end disassemble?



Also, when peeking through the runners to see the intake valves, oil can be seen collecting near each valve.   but not just one valve, all eight cylinders.  It THAT normal?    Cant really see it in the pic...but its in there.

In the picture it looks like some oil stains in the intake runners of the head.  It's hard to tell from pictures, but if that is oil stains then you may just have a leaky intake gasket/valley pan.  Sometimes the alignment of the intake face with the head face isn't perfect and will require gaskets to be used with the valley pan.  Test fit your intake without any gaskets or valley pan and see how the two fit against each other.   

[BSB67]

383 or 440?
What intake manifold?
Was the PCV routed to the carb, or a vacuum port on the #7 intake runner?
Are the intake runners oily?
When was the intake last removed and re-installed?
How long has this been going on?
Is the #5 and #7 runners oily to the touch?
How about the other runners?  Clean dry hands and feel for any oily residue.

If it is the same intake, and there was not a problem before the last intake R&R, what changed?

Check intake fit as mentioned.

Options:
1) Re-install and hope the problem was a poor install last time (unlikely)
2) Buy the 0.015" paper gaskets and install on both sides of the pan.  You might need to enlarge or elongate the intake bolt holes
3) Machine the intake for a better fit.  And if you do that might as well have it cut 0.030" 0r 0.060" and rune the 0.015" or 0.030" gaskets.

The carbon turd on the valve stems is a function of today's gas

[c00nhunterjoe]

I would use a good rtv over that brush on stuff.

[HeavyFuel]

383 or 440?  440
What intake manifold?  CH4B Eddy
Was the PCV routed to the carb, or a vacuum port on the #7 intake runner?  Routed to carb
Are the intake runners oily?  not really
When was the intake last removed and re-installed? two years ago
How long has this been going on?  unsure.....just noticed it yesterday when I started changing plugs  
Is the #5 and #7 runners oily to the touch?  yes
How about the other runners?  Clean dry hands and feel for any oily residue.  all about the same...kinda oily, cruddy...some worse than others

If it is the same intake, and there was not a problem before the last intake R&R, what changed?  I re-used the pan the last time I removed and re-installed the intake.  

The carbon turd on the valve stems is a function of today's gas.  There is actually puddles of oil near the valve edges. See pic

Middle pic is 7 and 5 cyl.

Bottom pic is 6 and 8.

More buildup on the bottom half's of the head runners.   Is this this due to higher heat near the cylinders?

[c00nhunterjoe]

Is there oil in the pcv hose? Should be easy to see with oil puddled on the valves.If not, its the pan gasket leaking. Doubtfull all valveguides would be that far gone.

[HeavyFuel]

Is there oil in the pcv hose? Should be easy to see with oil puddled on the valves.If not, its the pan gasket leaking. Doubtfull all valveguides would be that far gone.

No oil in PVC hose.

I think I'm going to put the stock intake back on.  It fit better than the CH4B.

Also...the gaskets that came with the floor pan are .03 inches thick.   Is that too thick without machineing down the intake?   Test fit, I suppose.

[c00nhunterjoe]

What didnt fit with the ch4b? The stock iron intake is a step backwards.

[BSB67]

Was the CH4B on it before the last intake R&R, or was that the time you switched to the CH4B?

My experiance with those intakes is that they do not fit well and usually leak.  Probably made worst by using the same pan gasket.  Do the test described above.  I would not be surprised if you find one corner of the manifold to be out 0.008" to 0.010".  Also my experience is that no goop in a can will seal it.  I've tried them all.

[bee1971]

If it was pushing oil thru the intake and valley pan , you would notice blue smoke out the tailpipe on whatever side of the intake was sucking oil , especially after a good run on DECELERATION/Releasing the gas peddle when engine vacuum is at its highest point

Just went through this on my buds 68 Coronet RT Convertible after following him to a car show this summer
I Never noticed smoke before and he had just changed intakes a month earlier , and was not a happy camper when he checked his oil dipstick

Anyways

Stick you fingers in your exhaust pipe or pipes and see if one side is clean and the other side oily and black

Compression test also for rings and valves if you think another direction

Anyways like others have mentioned , especially on any USED aluminum intake or even new

I will always test dry fit first with just the pan - intake and bolts

Then I will shove the paper gasket under the pan on both sides and refit the intake and bolts

If everything still aligns and the bolts screw in fine

I Will then add gaskets on top of valley pan also for a total of four gaskets and see if the intake and bolts still align and screw in

If that's the case , use the paper gaskets

Remember heads get resurfaced - Blocks get resurfaced

Used intakes get resurfaced and or cut - That's the issue with buying a used intake

[BSB67]

This problem existed in the 1970s with untouched motors and new aftermarket intakes.

[HeavyFuel]

What didnt fit with the ch4b? The stock iron intake is a step backwards.

Not sure.....I just know that it  didn't seal as efficiently.   Plus, the stock intake has a well area for the choke, the Eddy doesn't.

Was the CH4B on it before the last intake R&R, or was that the time you switched to the CH4B?

Last time I removed the intake, I put on the CH4B.....it was the stocker before that.

If it was pushing oil thru the intake and valley pan , you would notice blue smoke out the tailpipe on whatever side of the intake was sucking oil , especially after a good run on DECELERATION/Releasing the gas peddle when engine vacuum is at its highest point

I did get a little smoke recently but that was on hard acceleration, and it didn't look blue, more like a light white/gray.   I researched that a little and some say it a fairly common occurrence.  So I didn't pursue further at that time.

Stick you fingers in your exhaust pipe or pipes and see if one side is clean and the other side oily and black

Didn't seem like much of a difference from one side to the other

Anyways like others have mentioned , especially on any USED aluminum intake or even new
I will always test dry fit first with just the pan - intake and bolts
Then I will shove the paper gasket under the pan on both sides and refit the intake and bolts
If everything still aligns and the bolts screw in fine

I got right to this point.   Gaskets are under the pan but I could not get the bolts threaded with the top gaskets on.  in fact...it was quite a challenge just with the pan and single gasket layer.  I had to take a rat tail file after the intake mounting holes and elongate them just a tiny bite.  

[HeavyFuel]

Check out these nice plugs.    Number one was the plug I always checked, so.....really I thought things were good.  Could have caught this sooner if I'd checked more plugs.  Dur...Dur.

Replaced the NGK XR5's with Autolite AP85's....I believe they are a little bit cooler plug, had a some knocking over the summer, so a cooler plug might help.

Drove over the weekend, and it purrs like a kitte....a tiger.   I can't remember that last time the engine ran this nice.    

Hopefully the oil problem is resolved.  


Bottom pic as she looks now.

[BSB67]

What gasket thickness did you use?

[HeavyFuel]

Couldn't find anything locally that was thinner that 1/32, and that was the same as the gaskets that were supplied with the Felpro pan, so I just used them.

I was impatient.     Could order up the thinner gaskets, but winter is coming...every day counts.

My logic is that the gasket between the pan and the head keeps the oil out, the gasket between the pan and the intake keeps outside air out (vacuum leaks).  Is that correct?