AT to MT conversion question

[Raindem]

This is not a question on how to do it.  I'm trying to solve a puzzle.

I'm restoring a 1973 Charger Ralleye with a 440 4-speed.  According to the fender tag it's a 400, 4-speed from the factory. 

I've got it partially diassembled and up on the lift.  It looks like the drivers floorpan has been cut out and a patch panel welded in.  Yet there is no evidence of other than surface rust on the car (Arizona vehcile).  Looking closer at the curvature of the original metal, it looks like it was a solid hump there, meaning a column shift automatic.  See the photos below.  Perhaps you will interpret them differently.

So how can that be?  It's not a big deal to convert from AT to MT.  But would someone actually go through the trouble of swapping body fender tags?  As unlikely as it seems to me, is it possible this could have been a factory modification?  What other clues could I look for that the body fender tag has been changed, or that it was originally an AT?

Thanks

Curt

[daveco]

From what I understand, factory 4spd hump installs were rather brutal.

[70B5Cuda]

I'm sure it was just modified by a previous owner. I doubt anyone would swap fender tags since the radiator support and rear drip rail partial VIN stampings wouldn't match the fender tag then. Also, it was not a factory mod as the factory wouldn't have cut out part of the torsion bar crossmember when trimming sheetmetal. That was done later.

[John_Kunkel]

   The factory floor cutout was really crude but they didn't use a torch and would never cut into the torsion bar crossmember. Later butchery on top of crude factory work.

[daveco]

What year is the penny?

[Raindem]

1982.

So where exactly can I find these other VIN stampings?

[lukedukem]

What year is the penny?

Lmao. I don't know why I thought that was so funny.

Top of radiator support will have the partial VIN.

Luke

[Raindem]

Top of radiator support will have the partial VIN.

I can't find it on mine.  Anyone got a picture of what it looks like?

[Chargerguy74]

Might be on the backside of the top support (radiator side).

Is there a pivot ball stud bracket on the frame for the Z bar?

[lukedukem]

Top of radiator support will have the partial VIN.

I can't find it on mine.  Anyone got a picture of what it looks like?

Most of the 3rd gen Chargers I have had, the Radiator support numbers have been facing the radiator and not on the top of the support. The only other body stamping is on the cowl above the wiper motor, sometimes under the weather strip. No number on the trunk lip. The stampings will be the last 6 or 7 of the VIN #

I got the above info from this thread off moparts, here's the link.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/7619405/site_id/1

Luke

[Raindem]

Is there a pivot ball stud bracket on the frame for the Z bar?

Yes, the bracket is there.

I found the radiator stamping and the cowl stamping.  They are both different from each other and different from the VIN.  The link provided above said that these other numbers have no relation to the VIN and I would tend to agree.  

So I'm back where I started - trying to figure out this puzzle.  The VIN matches the fender tag.  The fender tag indicates a MT (D21).  Yet the installation looks aftermarket.

[Charger-Bodie]

Radiator support matches fender tag and dash? Cowl number?

[Raindem]

Radiator support matches fender tag and dash? Cowl number?

No.  The radiator support and cowl numbers are different from each other and different from the VIN.  The cowl number is 517304.  The radiator support is 20032.

[Chargerguy74]

Radiator support matches fender tag and dash? Cowl number?

No.  The radiator support and cowl numbers are different from each other and different from the VIN.  The cowl number is 517304.  The radiator support is 20032.

Keep looking at the rad support for another set of numbers. I don't believe you found the sequence numbers on it yet. That being said, I have a 73 with no cowl or rad support numbers.

[RallyeMike]

As said, these 3rd gen humps are always sloppy from the factory, but this is about the ugliest I've seen. The sealer and paint job on the top looks 100% factory untouched. I doubt some previous owner did that nice of a job to make it look factory up top and butchered the underside. I'm sure this is just sloppy factory work, though it could be possible someone owning the car in the past torched a little more of the cross member for some reason.

Thanks for posting the tag pic. Neat car!

[Raindem]

The sealer and paint job on the top looks 100% factory untouched.

Yes, that is another thing. The tranny hump metal looks exactly like the original sheet metal.  Same primer, same seam sealer, same amount of patchy surface rust underneath, etc.  I too couldn't believe a factory worker would cut into the crossmember like that.

I'll keep looking for the secondary VIN stampings.  But in the meantime I'll just assume this must have been a Friday car.

[RallyeMike]

A Tuesday, but maybe the end of the shift or coming off lunch 

[sccachallenger]

I'm sure it was just modified by a previous owner. I doubt anyone would swap fender tags since the radiator support and rear drip rail partial VIN stampings wouldn't match the fender tag then. Also, it was not a factory mod as the factory wouldn't have cut out part of the torsion bar crossmember when trimming sheetmetal. That was done later.

I agree, can't see the factory ever using a torch!
Are there any clues that this was ever a serious drag car?
Maybe trimming was done to accommodate an aftermarket shifter.

[Raindem]

Are there any clues that this was ever a serious drag car?

Not really.  Looks like the typical '73 Charger that's been sitting in someone's lot for 20 years.