Tell me it ain't a head gasket..

[Highbanked Hauler]

   My sons 440 6 pack motor with a 26 in radiator with a 7 blade clutch fan has about 450 miles on it and I have been battling an over heating problem since day one. With the car running to warm up I checked the radiator and there were air bubbles coming in with the coolant on a 95 degree day (first time I checked it with the motor running) and when I got back home I flipped the lever on the rad.cap and it blew probably a half pint of foam out of it and cleared out. When I changed the oil the first time there was no sign of water and pulling the dipstick now there is no sign of coolant.  Correct me if i am wrong but bubbles in the coolant means a head gasket..

[RECHRGD]

Some air bubbles in the coolant is considered normal, but not a bunch.  There is a way to test for CO in the coolant and that would tell you if it's a head gasket.  Google it!  How hot does the engine run?

[Highbanked Hauler]

Some air bubbles in the coolant is considered normal, but not a bunch.  There is a way to test for CO in the coolant and that would tell you if it's a head gasket.  Google it!  How hot does the engine run?

   With a 160 stat. on a 95 degree day the coolest it sees is 190 while moving but in slow moving traffic or stop for a couple of minutes and it would spike and did hit 230.  NOW since then I have added a new multi vane water pump, moved the trans cooler, set the timing at 15 degrees and as of today  added a 16 in. pusher fan. Now sitting still the temp will hold at 195 so it has improved  or dropped about 30 ish. degrees.

[RECHRGD]

Some air bubbles in the coolant is considered normal, but not a bunch.  There is a way to test for CO in the coolant and that would tell you if it's a head gasket.  Google it!  How hot does the engine run?

   With a 160 stat. on a 95 degree day the coolest it sees is 190 while moving but in slow moving traffic or stop for a couple of minutes and it would spike and did hit 230.  NOW since then I have added a new multi vane water pump, moved the trans cooler, set the timing at 15 degrees and as of today  added a 16 in. pusher fan. Now sitting still the temp will hold at 195 so it has improved  or dropped about 30 ish. degrees.

Well, it kinda sounds like you've solved your overheating problem.  I'm betting your head gaskets are fine.....

[Highbanked Hauler]

now that the car has cooled off I am going to let it run to see if the bubbling in the rad. stops . As I said this is a fresh engine but I have heard bored motors run hotter than they did before as mine sure does.

[BSB67]

Run it till its hot enough for the thermostat to open, remove the cap, if small bubbles are being continuously released, it is likely a head gasket.  Also the hose will be hard as the entire system will be at cap pressure.

[Highbanked Hauler]

  I know what you mean and I'll check it with the cap on.  I let it come up to temp tonight with the cap off and without the cap I had bubbles starting at about 175 degrees. Till the temp came up there were no bubbles.

[BSB67]

I let it come up to temp tonight with the cap off and without the cap I had bubbles starting at about 175 degrees. Till the temp came up there were no bubbles.

Does not sound good.

[Charger RT]

What water pump housing is on the engine?
read this http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.0.html

[John_Kunkel]

If in doubt, you can test the cooling system for hydrocarbon emissions.

http://www.coastaltoolsupply.com/product/UVW-560000.html

[Highbanked Hauler]

What water pump housing is on the engine?
read this http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.0.html

     Factory cast iron, with all the crap about aluminum problems I didn't think it was worth it for this car.

[Highbanked Hauler]

I let it come up to temp tonight with the cap off and without the cap I had bubbles starting at about 175 degrees. Till the temp came up there were no bubbles.

Does not sound good.

    I know,  the motor was done by a professional shop and he had to cut it 60 over which I didn't care for but the heads were planed and the top of the block was done also so there is no reason for the gasket not to seal. UNLESS there is a crack somewhere that opened up.

[c00nhunterjoe]

What gaskets were used?

[BSB67]

What gaskets were used?

This.

The steel shim head gasket can leak if the either the block or head machining leaves to rough of a surface.  Cylinder pressure will be good, the gasket will not look "blown" when you take it apart, but bubbles will be in the radiator.

Your crack opening scenario is a possibility too.

Before you go to far, do like John says and confirm you have a leak before you start tearing stuff apart.

[Highbanked Hauler]

What gaskets were used?

This.

The steel shim head gasket can leak if the either the block or head machining leaves to rough of a surface.  Cylinder pressure will be good, the gasket will not look "blown" when you take it apart, but bubbles will be in the radiator.

Your crack opening scenario is a possibility too.

Before you go to far, do like John says and confirm you have a leak before you start tearing stuff apart.

     Definitely, thats what I am going to do first, this is kind of a knee jerk reaction to it. I am NOT an engine person but know about enough to be dangerous. I don't think they would have used steel gaskets but I will check my papers on the motor and worst case bring the car down to them for their opinion on it. They are a reasonable bunch there.. This whole thing has started since hot weather set in and before that in cooler weather there was no problem at all.

[BSB67]

Steel shim is what the factory used.  With all that cutting they did it sounds like they were chasing after compression, and a shim gasket is sometimes a good choice if that is the case.

[CRW-FK5]

I would do a leak down test on all cylinders.  This would tell you if you have a cylinder leak and which cylinder is leaking, as you would see bubbles in the radiator.  Harbor Freight has one for under $50.  Sure there are more expensive ones, but this one is fine for occasional use.  Or borrow one from a friend.

Also, improper torquing of head bolts can cause a head gasket leak.  It wouldn't be too difficult to pull valve covers and re-check torque.

Good luck.

[BSB67]

I would do a leak down test on all cylinders.  This would tell you if you have a cylinder leak and which cylinder is leaking, as you would see bubbles in the radiator.  .

Again, this may, or may not tell you if you have a leak.  Does not hurt to do one though, and it is always good information.

[1970Moparmann]

I'm having the same issue.   Please update once you have a fix.

[Highbanked Hauler]

Steel shim is what the factory used.  With all that cutting they did it sounds like they were chasing after compression, and a shim gasket is sometimes a good choice if that is the case.

     Not sure on that. I told them son wanted to run a 6 pack on it (not my idea) but  that it was to be a street engine and 9:0 comp and he just said OK like it was no big deal but it ended at 9.7.

   The first thing I am going to do is sniff the radiator for HC. then do a leak down.

[Highbanked Hauler]

I'm having the same issue.   Please update once you have a fix.

           Feel free to jump in with your cars symptoms ..

[1970Moparmann]

I'm having the same issue.   Please update once you have a fix.

           Feel free to jump in with your cars symptoms ..

Been fighting this car for 11 years.   Since I didn't have the engine rebuilt, it is like a puzzle.    The car would always run warm when the engine was at higher RPMs.   This Spring I did a bunch of engine detailing and also changed out the water pump to a high volume thinking that was the issue.   Put it back together looking the best it ever did, and now it is all F'd up again.    It is even running warmer now. 

-High flow water pump - check
-Made sure timing was correct - check
-Made sure the heat rise valve wasn't stuck closed in the exhaust manifold - check
-flushed out the block 3 times - check
-installed an aftermarket temp gauge - check

Next is putting a Griffin Radiator in it.   I think my biggest issue is either the existing CAM isn't indexed correctly, or it is too big for the build.   The car is currently going up to 230 when idling with no air flow.  Even with driving it isn't coming down.

The other issue I have is it is a gutless turd.   For a 440, it is making no power.

[68CoronetRT]

Radiator/shroud and Jag clutch fan made the car idle from 230 to just above T stat(180).

For what its worth. 

[68CoronetRT]

I'm having the same issue.   Please update once you have a fix.

Been fighting this car for 11 years.   Since I didn't have the engine rebuilt, it is like a puzzle.    The car would always run warm when the engine was at higher RPMs.   This Spring I did a bunch of engine detailing and also changed out the water pump to a high volume thinking that was the issue.   Put it back together looking the best it ever did, and now it is all F'd up again.    It is even running warmer now.  

-High flow water pump - check
-Made sure timing was correct - check
-Made sure the heat rise valve wasn't stuck closed in the exhaust manifold - check
-flushed out the block 3 times - check
-installed an aftermarket temp gauge - check

Next is putting a Griffin Radiator in it.   I think my biggest issue is either the existing CAM isn't indexed correctly, or it is too big for the build.   The car is currently going up to 230 when idling with no air flow.  Even with driving it isn't coming down.

The other issue I have is it is a gutless turd.   For a 440, it is making no power.

The running hot at high RPMs makes me think your lower radiator hose is collapsing under load. Try to locate a lower hose with a spring in it.

Also I didnt mention in my last post I'm running a big 2 row radiator. Havent had any heating issues since.

What exactly is your timing set to? base/full advance? Are you running an electric fan?

[1970Moparmann]

The running hot at high RPMs makes me think your lower radiator hose is collapsing under load. Try to locate a lower hose with a spring in it.

68CoronetRT, this is actually for my 68 Coronet RT Convertible - LOL.     Ironically, since I put the high flow pump, it has been running warm quicker.   The car has about 3,000 miles on it with a "new core" stock radiator in it.  I also have a fan shroud.  The fan is a little farther away from the radiator that is recommended, so I'm putting on bigger spacer to get it within an inch in a half away.

The timing is 16 at idle and 35 total.   

[Dino]

I'm having the same issue.   Please update once you have a fix.

           Feel free to jump in with your cars symptoms ..

Been fighting this car for 11 years.   Since I didn't have the engine rebuilt, it is like a puzzle.    The car would always run warm when the engine was at higher RPMs.   This Spring I did a bunch of engine detailing and also changed out the water pump to a high volume thinking that was the issue.   Put it back together looking the best it ever did, and now it is all F'd up again.    It is even running warmer now. 

-High flow water pump - check
-Made sure timing was correct - check
-Made sure the heat rise valve wasn't stuck closed in the exhaust manifold - check
-flushed out the block 3 times - check
-installed an aftermarket temp gauge - check

Next is putting a Griffin Radiator in it.   I think my biggest issue is either the existing CAM isn't indexed correctly, or it is too big for the build.   The car is currently going up to 230 when idling with no air flow.  Even with driving it isn't coming down.

The other issue I have is it is a gutless turd.   For a 440, it is making no power.

I'll just come out and say it even though you probably don't want to hear it. Even if you fix the heating issue the car will still run as a dog so in my humble opinion I think it's time to pull the engine and open it up. Go through it and rebuild it with the parts you want. No more guessing and you'll have something that is fun to drive. You know what the downside to all this is.   

[1970Moparmann]

I'll just come out and say it even though you probably don't want to hear it. Even if you fix the heating issue the car will still run as a dog so in my humble opinion I think it's time to pull the engine and open it up. Go through it and rebuild it with the parts you want. No more guessing and you'll have something that is fun to drive. You know what the downside to all this is.   

Oh I know.   I honestly don't care it is a dog right now.   The CAM is too big and starts delivering power at higher RPMs.  I can switch out the converter also, but would rather keep it more stock.     

[Highbanked Hauler]

  Moparman, is this a motor that has never been apart or just YOU didn't do the rebuild ?  My sons only has less than 500 miles and everything was new. When  MY engine was done it had a TON of sediment and sand in it  and the builder said it is a wonder it didn't burn up the back cylinders..

[cdr]

 Moparman, is this a motor that has never been apart or just YOU didn't do the rebuild ?  My sons only has less than 500 miles and everything was new. When  MY engine was done it had a TON of sediment and sand in it  and the builder said it is a wonder it didn't burn up the back cylinders..

thats why I run a cleanable screen in the upper hose, no matter how clean you think the block is it will still have rust flakes breaking lose & clogging up the radiator

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiT1ZHf24zPAhUj2oMKHc6AA1cQFgg6MAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ganofilters.com%2F&usg=AFQjCNEKWgF4YvwqUKPIg0KDA4XULkN7EQ&sig2=0iIIJn4ukL84Zoh43YO6nA

[Highbanked Hauler]

  Hell of an idea, how much crap do you get out of it ?

[cdr]

  Hell of an idea, how much crap do you get out of it ?

when I built my engine they hot tanked it & before I assembled it I washed & flushed the cooling passages, installed the engine & made some WOT blast & crap broke loose in the cooling passages & plugged up my new radiator, I also put a little magnet in the screen to catch the smaller particles, 1st time i cleaned it was a lot of crap, now almost none when I check it. 

[Chargerguy74]

  Hell of an idea, how much crap do you get out of it ?

when I built my engine they hot tanked it & before I assembled it I washed & flushed the cooling passages, installed the engine & made some WOT blast & crap broke loose in the cooling passages & plugged up my new radiator, I also put a little magnet in the screen to catch the smaller particles, 1st time i cleaned it was a lot of crap, now almost none when I check it. 

I'm glad I read your post today. 1 on its way to Canada now. After dropping $1k on a new rad I figured it would be a good idea to catch all the crap from the new motor.