Lizard Skin

[dwitzel]

Hi Guys, Has anyone used this new product called Lizard Skin to sound proof and undercoat the interior floor pan? How did it work.

[Troy]

It's not exactly new but it hasn't quite caught on with the restoration crowd (a lot of street rodders have used it though). Member gb70 has used it and posted pictures here: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,1207.msg55462.html#msg55462 I'll be using it on my cars but I'm still having metal work done.

Troy

[Recharger]

I used CoolCar, which has been around longer than LizardSkin and is essentially the same stuff but a bit cheaper.  http://www.coolcarceramic.com/index.htm  I brushed it on, since I don't have a compressor strong enough to spray it, and I didn't want to buy a special gun for it either.  It's nasty to stuff to brush on though, it's kind of like painting with peanut butter.  It can be thinned with water though, and that really helps out the brushing, and it's nice to not have to tape things off or worry about overspray.

I haven't had my car on the road yet, so I can't vouch for the sound deadening qualities, but it does seem to insulate quite well.  I've got one of those cheap handheld droplights with a metal cage around the bulb, and after a few hours of use the metal gets hot enough to singe the hair off my arm.  I bumped the back of the metal housing with my brush while I was painting and got some of the stuff on the metal.  Now that part of the light stays cool to the touch even while the rest of the housing is red hot.  Hopefully it insulates my car that well too. 

They only sell in 2 gallon buckets, and I used just about half of it to put two coats on the floorboards, inner firewall, trunk barrier, package tray and inner doors & rear 1/4 window areas.  (Painting inside the doors & rear quarters sucks )  They claim it spreads farther if you spray it on, and brushing can be a bit wasteful, but I had plenty.  Here's a pic of what it looked like afterwards. Not particularly pretty, but that's what the carpet's for.   

[Shakey]

I used CoolCar, which has been around longer than LizardSkin and is essentially the same stuff but a bit cheaper.  http://www.coolcarceramic.com/index.htm  I brushed it on, since I don't have a compressor strong enough to spray it, and I didn't want to buy a special gun for it either.  It's nasty to stuff to brush on though, it's kind of like painting with peanut butter.  It can be thinned with water though, and that really helps out the brushing, and it's nice to not have to tape things off or worry about overspray.

I haven't had my car on the road yet, so I can't vouch for the sound deadening qualities, but it does seem to insulate quite well.  I've got one of those cheap handheld droplights with a metal cage around the bulb, and after a few hours of use the metal gets hot enough to singe the hair off my arm.  I bumped the back of the metal housing with my brush while I was painting and got some of the stuff on the metal.  Now that part of the light stays cool to the touch even while the rest of the housing is red hot.  Hopefully it insulates my car that well too. 

They only sell in 2 gallon buckets, and I used just about half of it to put two coats on the floorboards, inner firewall, trunk barrier, package tray and inner doors & rear 1/4 window areas.  (Painting inside the doors & rear quarters sucks )  They claim it spreads farther if you spray it on, and brushing can be a bit wasteful, but I had plenty.  Here's a pic of what it looked like afterwards. Not particularly pretty, but that's what the carpet's for.   

Very informative Recharger!  I'm just about at this stage now.

Thanks for this info!   

[41husk]

do you shoot it from a regular paint spray gun?

[Shakey]

do you shoot it from a regular paint spray gun?

With reagrds to Lizard Skin:

No.  There is a gun they sell, similar to a shutz gun, for $199.00 CDN.

You'll need a compressor that can serve up a steady 80psi for an extended peiod of time and the gun will emit a steady 12-14 cfm.

I spoke to a distributor today and he pretty much sold me on the product.  $279.00 CDN for two gallons, enough to cover 45ft2.  Pricey, but well worth it, or so I am told.  Once I'm done, I'll let you know how it comes out and you know I'll have some photos for you.

Here are a couple of links for you to check out.

http://www.lizardskin.com/

http://www.canadianrodder.com/crbuilds/artpgs/art44.htm

[Recharger]

Yeah, the guy I talked to at CoolCar said the stuff has to be sprayed with an "AR-1" paint gun (shown on their website) or similar, with a feeder tube leading directly into the bucket of 'paint', using a high powered air compressor like Shakey mentioned.  And someone should probabaly be there with a drill and a mud paddle, mixing the stuff up while holding the tube in the bucket....   Reason enough for me to go with brushing instead.  After reading the site again, I think I thinned mine a little bit more than the 1-2oz per gallon that they recommend for brushing, but so far it seems to be ok.  I'll add some feedback after I get it on the road and heat up the exhaust pipes a bit more.   

While we're on this topic, did the LizardSkin guy say anything to you about sound deadening, Shakey?  When I talked to them, someone told me you have to buy one product for heat insulation, and another for sound deadening, and spray one over the other.  They also only sell in 2 gallon buckets, so in the end they were well over double the coolcar price AND the guy told me it couldn't be brushed...spray only.  (buy my gun...)  I had a feelling I got some bad info and that after some more investigating I might get better answers from another distributor, but after I talked to the coolcar guys I just bought that stuff.  I'm just wondering if you found out more/different/better info than I did. 

[Shakey]

The heat & sound barrier is good to 500*F.  The sound only barrier is good to 300*F.

There are more details on the site. 

From what I understand, the fella that owns CoolCar used to work/partners with Lizard Skin and left there and started his own company, CoolCar.

[41husk]

so are the two products basicly the same only different names?

[Shakey]

so are the two products basicly the same only different names?

I think they are very close, exact same, not sure.  Check out the links in this thread.

[Charger-Bodie]

what i dont understand is why everyone wants to sound deadon everything so bad i love the mechanical sound of the gine and a nice { but not overkill} exhaust system

[Recharger]

It might seem cool in small doses, but try driving without any sound barrier for a few hundred miles, that big block will rattle your brain out of your skull.

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Hey guys, here's a couple of links that you should check out before spending insane money (or worse yet, ridiculously cheap money) on sound damping/absorbing, and/or thermal barriers, spray gun, etc.

Without taking up space giving you a resume, I can personally guarantee that these products are every bit as good, and usually much better than anything currently being offered and are much cheaper. Not only that, but usually the owner (Anthony) gives a 20% discount just for registering on his forum, and is very good about doing group buys if enough of you are interested.

As for the question about the ceramic coatings ability to damp sound resonance, I will say that (my opinion) they are about 60% as effective as rubber based coatings, but many hundreds percent better at thermal reduction than rubber based (sound deadeners).

My preference is to use both rubber based, and ceramic sprays. Spray the rubber down first in a thin, but well covering coat (this provides a decent amount of sound damping while also sealing the metal from moisture), and after a couple days of drying time, lay down a couple of good coats of ceramic. Personally I spray "Rust Bullet" rust proofing down first as it not only prevents rust, but it's high aluminum content makes an excellent reflective thermal barrier.

At that point you can also add aluminum faced/rubber backed stick on damper sheets to the inside of the door/quarter panels, interior firewall, roof, etc; or if you are truly insane (as I am), you can use skinned Melamine foam panels on top of the coatings, but under the carpet, headliner etc., and/or any of the flexible sound absorbing foams that are available.

What you can accomplish is amazing in sonic resonance and reflection elimination, and thermal insulating ability. How far you want to go, and how much weight you are willing to add is up to you, but it's amazing to me that today, with current materials, we can achieve the sonic and thermal improvements with only about 100 Lbs of materials, that are better than what could be achieved with 700 to 1,000 lbs of materials a decade or so ago (IASCA competitions).

Here are the links ...

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/     A link to a decent independent test of products.

http://www.secondskinaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi    The best materials/price source. call or email the owner (Anthony) about current discounts or recommendations for your desired results.

http://www.rustbullet.com    I LOVE this stuff and wouldn't't consider a restoration without it.

http://www.mcmaster.com/    Source for info and other products relating to the subject. In the "find product" box in the upper left corner, type in "sound" which will give you about 5 pages of info/products, then type in "thermal" which will give you about 8 pages.

[Rolling_Thunder]

used lizzard skin on a car in the shop...     cant say how it worked - car isnt running yet...

[Shakey]

used lizzard skin on a car in the shop...     cant say how it worked - car isnt running yet...

How was it to apply / work with?

Did you have to use the specified gun as mentioned on their web site?

[Shakey]

Hey guys, here's a couple of links that you should check out before spending insane money (or worse yet, ridiculously cheap money) on sound damping/absorbing, and/or thermal barriers, spray gun, etc.

Without taking up space giving you a resume, I can personally guarantee that these products are every bit as good, and usually much better than anything currently being offered and are much cheaper. Not only that, but usually the owner (Anthony) gives a 20% discount just for registering on his forum, and is very good about doing group buys if enough of you are interested.

As for the question about the ceramic coatings ability to damp sound resonance, I will say that (my opinion) they are about 60% as effective as rubber based coatings, but many hundreds percent better at thermal reduction than rubber based (sound deadeners).

My preference is to use both rubber based, and ceramic sprays. Spray the rubber down first in a thin, but well covering coat (this provides a decent amount of sound damping while also sealing the metal from moisture), and after a couple days of drying time, lay down a couple of good coats of ceramic. Personally I spray "Rust Bullet" rust proofing down first as it not only prevents rust, but it's high aluminum content makes an excellent reflective thermal barrier.

At that point you can also add aluminum faced/rubber backed stick on damper sheets to the inside of the door/quarter panels, interior firewall, roof, etc; or if you are truly insane (as I am), you can use skinned Melamine foam panels on top of the coatings, but under the carpet, headliner etc., and/or any of the flexible sound absorbing foams that are available.

What you can accomplish is amazing in sonic resonance and reflection elimination, and thermal insulating ability. How far you want to go, and how much weight you are willing to add is up to you, but it's amazing to me that today, with current materials, we can achieve the sonic and thermal improvements with only about 100 Lbs of materials, that are better than what could be achieved with 700 to 1,000 lbs of materials a decade or so ago (IASCA competitions).

Here are the links ...

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/     A link to a decent independent test of products.

http://www.secondskinaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi    The best materials/price source. call or email the owner (Anthony) about current discounts or recommendations for your desired results.

http://www.rustbullet.com    I LOVE this stuff and wouldn't't consider a restoration without it.

http://www.mcmaster.com/    Source for info and other products relating to the subject. In the "find product" box in the upper left corner, type in "sound" which will give you about 5 pages of info/products, then type in "thermal" which will give you about 8 pages.

Hey Thad - thanks for your input.  Just when I thought I had decided on a product, you step in and make me do more research!  Thanks a lot!   

[Rolling_Thunder]

used lizzard skin on a car in the shop...     cant say how it worked - car isnt running yet...

How was it to apply / work with?

Did you have to use the specified gun as mentioned on their web site?

yep...    not all that difficult to work with...    i used the gun....       i just followed the instructions they give....    turned out pretty decent ---   like i said -  just not sure of how it performs