440 running warm and is a pooch

[1970Moparmann]

Guys,

My 440 is always had a heating issue.   I have done the following -
-radiator recored (original)
-New Miloden high flow water pump
-New thermostat 180 degree
-timing is at 13 degree

It has the original water pump housing.

I just started the car with the new High Flow Water Pump last night and don't see much of a flow of antifreeze/water.   Shouldn't there be a considerable flow?

The car runs about 190ish, but when idling, it starts going up.   This is tested by a laser gun.

Thanks!

[Brass]

Which radiator is it, 22" or 26"?  Are you using a shroud? 

[comet_666]

Start here...

https://wizardcooling.com/dodge/charger/1966-1969/

[1970Moparmann]

Which radiator is it, 22" or 26"?  Are you using a shroud? 

26" with a shroud.

[crj1968]

How high does it get to while idling? 

I don't think you'd really see the water pump flow unless you are temp. and therm is open.

[firefighter3931]

Hi Mike,

What thermostat are you running in the 440 ?  I like the Milidon high flow thermostats 

Check the flow with the rad cap off ; start the engine when it's cold, remove the cap and allow it to reach operating temp when the stat opens and then observe the flow. Sometimes an air pocket will form in the cooling system which will cause a warm running engine. Best way to bleed the cooling system is to get the front end of the car up on ramps with the rad cap off while running it up. If there is an air pocket in there it will "burp" and the coolant level will drop once the air is released....then you simply top off the radiator.

As for performance ; the base timing is probably a bit low. I would try bumping the timing up to 16* at idle and adjust the mechanical to give it 36* total timing at 2500-2800 rpm. 



Ron

[68 RT]

If temps only go up at idle it is an airflow problem, what kind of fan do you have? Is it in the shroud far enough?

[Dino]

I had a temporary overheating problem with mine and it turned out the be a tiny leak in the lower hose. Some crud had accumulated on the water pump housing pushing the hose open ever so slightly. I saw a small trace of water on the housing but the leak wasn't big enough to form a puddle under the car. But it's enough to mess up the pressure and raise the temp. Cleaned it up, retightened the hose and problem solved.

[1970Moparmann]

What thermostat are you running in the 440 ?  I like the Milidon high flow thermostats 

Hey Ron, I'm running a Milidon 180 currently.

Check the flow with the rad cap off ; start the engine when it's cold, remove the cap and allow it to reach operating temp when the stat opens and then observe the flow. Sometimes an air pocket will form in the cooling system which will cause a warm running engine. Best way to bleed the cooling system is to get the front end of the car up on ramps with the rad cap off while running it up. If there is an air pocket in there it will "burp" and the coolant level will drop once the air is released....then you simply top off the radiator.

Did this already.  Had a few burps and then it settled down.   There still isn't much of a flow through the radiator though.   

As for performance ; the base timing is probably a bit low. I would try bumping the timing up to 16* at idle and adjust the mechanical to give it 36* total timing at 2500-2800 rpm. 

I had it higher last year with the little bit of driving I did, and it didn't do anything either.  Once I get the cooling part finally taken car of, I'll tackle the performance. 

This is for my Coronet.   Pretty pissed about it this year.  I thought the high flow water pump was going to fix everything (like it did before).  I had the engine compartment looking awesome and now it is shot again.   I'm really frustrated.   Next time, make sure the car is running good, then take everything apart and detail.   

[1970Moparmann]

I had a temporary overheating problem with mine and it turned out the be a tiny leak in the lower hose. Some crud had accumulated on the water pump housing pushing the hose open ever so slightly. I saw a small trace of water on the housing but the leak wasn't big enough to form a puddle under the car. But it's enough to mess up the pressure and raise the temp. Cleaned it up, retightened the hose and problem solved.

Dino, I checked this a few times already.  I put about 3,000 miles on the car since I bought it, but it just never cooled correctly.   I found that the water pump was a cheap one, so put a Milidon one in it.   I did back flow the heater box, and it had some crap in it.   This weekend I'm going to do the same for the block and maybe there is some crap in the radiator.   I have a spare radiator that I will probably put in cancel this issue out.   

[Dino]

That sounds like a good idea. It'll be real messy but blowing through the water passages in the block could solve the issue. Good plan to use a different radiator just to rule it out. There's a small radiator shop close to me and I had them clean my old radiator and repaint it. Worth doing if you have one locally. It's pretty cheap.

How did you back flow the heater? Just put a water hose on one end and an open hose on the other to drain it away from the engine bay? Never done this to mine but it seems like a really good idea.   

[1970Moparmann]

How did you back flow the heater? Just put a water hose on one end and an open hose on the other to drain it away from the engine bay? Never done this to mine but it seems like a really good idea.   

Just removed the heater hose that goes into the water pump housing and shot water through it.   Put the other end into a bucket.  Was pretty surprised what I found.   There were some smaller chunks of crap.

My next theory is the radiator has a bunch of this crap in it also.  I just put in another thermostat in it to eliminate the idea that the other one was bad, and it still didn't produce much movement in the radiator.   Tomorrow, I'll flush out the block and put the other radiator in it.  I hope that is it....   This car is driving me crazy.....

[1970Moparmann]

Anyone have a picture of where the engine block coolant drain plug is located?   

[Dino]

One on each side. Hex key bolt.

[1970Moparmann]

Thanks Dino!

[1970Moparmann]

Okay guys, I spent some hours today working on the Coronet again.  I figure that I would try the Preston Flush and see the results.    It worked, but wanted to report the findings to see if my issue is more of a serious one.   I removed the thermostat while I did the below.

Here is a picture showing the original drain of the "week old" water and coolant / and after the first Preston Flush -



This is the aftermath of when I put the contents into jugs (doesn't look like oil, but more rust sediment)



After I drained the radiator, I flushed out the radiator and also the block with the hose.  I flushed until the water was clean coming out.   Didn't noticed any larger particles.

Once I did the block and radiator flush, I put in a second Preston Flush with distilled water.   I drove the car for about 20 minutes.   It seemed to hold around 190, until I sat at a traffic light for no longer than 3 minutes.   I didn't put the car in neutral, as I knew it would go up slightly, but wanted to see if the temp would go back down to 190ish - it didn't.   It climbed up again.  

After I let the car cool off again, I drained the radiator to see if the second Preston Flush did any further cleaning.  Here is what it looked like when it came out.   Still has some crap in the system.



Do you think I should keep going with this, or start checking for a head gasket leak, or possible head crack?   I also found a thread on another forum that a similar issue and it was freeze plugs that restricted coolant.  

Thanks for the feedback!

[1970Moparmann]

Some added information.  I took my laser temp gun to get some readings -

5 Minutes of warming up -
Drivers Head - 145

Passenger Head - 160

Waterpump Housing (by temp sensor) - 154

Thermostat Housing - 178

Exhaust Manifold - Drivers side - 550

Exhaust Manifold - Passenger side - 730


10 Minutes of warming up -
Drivers Head - 177

Passenger Head - 178

Waterpump Housing (by temp sensor) - 180

Thermostat Housing - 192

Exhaust Manifold - Drivers side - 550

Exhaust Manifold - Passenger side - 735


15 Minutes of warming up -
Drivers Head - 180

Passenger Head - 185

Waterpump Housing (by temp sensor) - 192

Thermostat Housing - 201

Exhaust Manifold - Drivers side - 650

Exhaust Manifold - Passenger side - 770

[303 Mopar]

No flow, and crap keeps coming out. You need a new radiator. 

[1970Moparmann]

No flow, and crap keeps coming out. You need a new radiator. 

Luckily, the flow is back.   After I flushed out the radiator, the crap must have loosened up.   

[firefighter3931]

Hi Mike,

Just an observation based on your temperature readings ;   the passenger side ex manifold seems much hotter than the driver side. Does it still have the heat riser valve in place ?  I'm wondering if the valve is in place and not opening properly....the result could be excessive heat retention (think of the manifold as a heat sink) which could be contributing to your overheating issues ?   


Ron

[1970Moparmann]

Hi Mike,

Just an observation based on your temperature readings ;   the passenger side ex manifold seems much hotter than the driver side. Does it still have the heat riser valve in place ?  I'm wondering if the valve is in place and not opening properly....the result could be excessive heat retention (think of the manifold as a heat sink) which could be contributing to your overheating issues ?   


Ron

Ron, I think the valve was removed and plugged.   I will check. 

[1970Moparmann]

Well, plot thickens.   

- Timing was correct

- Valve in the manifold was already stuck open

- Carb needed a little adjusting.


Have an aluminum radiator coming with a mechanical gauge.