1970 4-door Charger

[mightywing7]

For those who went to Carlisle this weekend, you may have seen this in the b-body section. I'm not sure if this was discussed before in another thread.  Thought I'd share with all of you......

[mightywing7]

Ok....having problems posting the pics from my phone.  

Will post when I can get to my laptop, or can send from my phone to someone who can post for me.... Anyone available for me to email these pics?

Sorry gang.

[66FBCharger]

I saw this car. I have some pics I'll try to post later.
I was not sure what it was, the VIN was covered and I didn't see any emblems on the car anywhere.

[68RT440]

I saw it too. It was kinda neat...

[RCCDrew]

  I want to see out of morbid curiosity.

[JR]

Well...

[6spd68]

Interesting bit of fab work I'd say

[mightywing7]

That's it...Thanks JR!

Of note, the car had vintage 1970 license plates from Mexico as well as stickers stating Chrysler of Mexico.

[Alaskan_TA]

Very cool car.

[Alaskan_TA]

The only place it had 'Charger' that I could see was in the wheel covers.

[66FBCharger]

I haven't had luck yet finding out if this was a Chrysler Mexico built car and if it is in fact a 1970.

[Lennard]

The rear half looks like a Coronet.

[polywideblock]

looks like a coronet to me

[Homerr]

Best looking Coronet I've ever seen.

[ECS]

I know nothing about this vehicle but Larry Saunders (retired Chrysler Executive) told me that he saw 1970 4 Door (concept) Chargers while working at Chrysler in the late sixties & early seventies.  This picture also illustrates why a 4 Door version of a Sports Model cannot share the same Roof-line or have a fastback appearance in the rear window design.  A person entering the rear seat has to have the proper head room when climbing in.  Notice the difference in roof height of the yellow Charger sitting next to the 4 Door Car.

[BananaDan]

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night but I'm reasonably good with Google. Here is some research I did into the white 4-door AutoMex "Charger" we saw in Carlisle.

This link explains the partnership Chrysler had with AutoMex to produce cars in Mexico for the Mexican market. Charger wasn't introduced until 1971 according to Allpar.

http://www.allpar.com/world/mexico.html

This link has many pictures of a 1970 AutoMex brochure. 70 Coronet was available in 2d and 4d, but the front clip didn't look like what was on the show field in Carlisle. There are many pictures in this link, click the right arrow to advance through them.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/27078515@N04/3727988886/

Picture of 1971 Automex Charger (allegedly when they introduced the Charger to the Automex lineup according to Allpar). Looks like a gen 3 US Dodge Charger, not what we saw in Carlisle.

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1971-mexican-chrysler-large-prestige-sales

IMO, what we saw in Carlisle may very well have been an Automex built 1970 4-door Coronet that somebody then grafted 1970 US-built Dodge Charger door skins and front clip to. Welding seams were visible in the wheel well on the fenders and the panel gaps were all over the place. Based on the Googling I did, the 4-door 1970 AutoMex Coronet is the most likely source of the vehicle as there was no Charger in 1970 and in 1971 it was introduced in the style of the Gen 3 Chargers.

If anyone has any information or facts to share about this car, please do so! I am in no way an expert, nor am I pretending to be. I am just as curious as most to understand what we actually saw here.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

ECS in 4, 3, 2.........................

[ECS]

If anyone has any information or facts to share about this car, please do so! I am in no way an expert, nor am I pretending to be. I am just as curious as most to understand what we actually saw here.

I've had 3 separate and independent individuals that worked for Chrysler, in the late sixties/early seventies, say that Chrysler build 4 Door Concepts of everyone of their 2 Door production cars.  I don't know what Chrysler was or wasn't doing back then but I've never understood why some people are so sure about certain occurrences.  Making 4 Door versions of existing vehicles would have been relatively simple in comparison to some of the Concepts that they built. 

Most of the opinions given use the rationale that Chrysler couldn't "afford" to build cars that were never intended to be mass produced or that they wouldn't have "wasted their time" on something so far fetched.   If that is the case, can anyone explain the purpose or reasoning of the Chrysler Concept Cars shown below?  Why did Chrysler build them?  What purpose did they serve and what design characteristics ended up being used on Chrysler production vehicles?

[ECS]

ECS in 4, 3, 2.........................

Sorry but you were already late in your prediction!

[Mytur Binsdirti]

ECS in 4, 3, 2.........................

Sorry but you were already late in your prediction!

Better late than never and someone had to say it.

[ECS]

.......someone had to say it.

Why don't you provide us with the reason that Chrysler made the 2 Concept Cars shown below?  What would have been more difficult..........building those radical designs or adding a couple of doors to an already existing platform?

[BananaDan]

If anyone has any information or facts to share about this car, please do so! I am in no way an expert, nor am I pretending to be. I am just as curious as most to understand what we actually saw here.

I've had 3 separate and independent individuals that worked for Chrysler, in the late sixties/early seventies, say that Chrysler build 4 Door Concepts of everyone of their 2 Door production cars.  I don't know what Chrysler was or wasn't doing back then but I've never understood why some people are so sure about certain occurrences.  Making 4 Door versions of existing vehicles would have been relatively simple in comparison to some of the Concepts that they built.  

Most of the opinions given use the rationale that Chrysler couldn't "afford" to build cars that were never intended to be mass produced or that they wouldn't have "wasted their time" on something so far fetched.   If that is the case, can anyone explain the purpose or reasoning of the Chrysler Concept Cars shown below?  Why did Chrysler build them?  What purpose did they serve and what design characteristics ended up being used on Chrysler production vehicles?

Are you insinuating that this is a 4-door concept Charger that made its way out into the public and into the hands of a private owner who then affixed AutoMex stickers to the windows? I find that far less likely than my theory. Yes, it is a theory, unproven by definition. I'm not sure if you're including me in your "some people" comment but I never made any claims to know, nor did I make any comments or claims about whether or not Chrysler US made 4-door variants of their 2-door cars. I do know that international markets made completely different cars than the US under license by Chrysler for their markets and used model brands on some wacky stuff. Wasn't the Australian Charger based on the Valiant or something like that?

I stated my opinion based on facts that I found with about 15 minutes of research on Google and looking the car over myself with fellow Mopar buddies. As you can imagine, there isn't a ton of information about AutoMex cars built in the 60s and 70s to be found online and as I said I only spent about 15 minutes searching because I didn't have hours to dedicate to this. There may be more facts and evidence out there which I would love to see as I'm just as curious about what we saw as the next guy. I can tell you that I was there, in person. I was parked two cars away from this car and sat next to it for three days. I walked around it, took pictures looked under it and touched it. The paint was very bad, the gaps were all over the place and sheet metal was definitely welded together where the Coronet body lines meet Charger body lines. The AutoMex sticker looked the part and looked like it could easily be 40+ years old. Some of these things were pointed out to me by Mopar friends that have been in this hobby for decades and have restored some amazing cars so I take their opinion very seriously.

Concepts are made by designers and engineers, who are anal perfectionists by trade (I know, I'm an engineer). I find it hard to believe that this car was built by a designer and/or engineer with the way it looked.

As for the concepts you shared, who knows. I'm not sure of the relevance with regards to the OP's topic of this alleged 4-door 70 Charger either. My best guess, the first one was made for a possible live action Jetson's movie and the second one for a Speed Racer movie.  



I'll leave with the sentiment I left my last post on. I would love to hear more information people may have about this white car we saw in Carlisle as it is interesting for sure. But let's keep the topic on track.

[68 BENGAL R/T]

Yikes, this one looks pretty ugly to to me!!!
If Chrysler did build these 4-Door Chargers back then, they should have remembered Chargers look best with 2-Doors.
Although I must say they have improved on the current 4-Door design over the model years. 

[Dino]

That is one seriously ugly car! 

[tcs69rt]

"Coronet" is what they should have called the 4 door sedan they put out 10+ years ago.....instead of calling it "Charger". 

And before anyone gets upset, think about it.....is there a 4 door Camaro or Mustang? 

[tan top]

Ok....having problems posting the pics from my phone.  

Will post when I can get to my laptop, or can send from my phone to someone who can post for me.... Anyone available for me to email these pics?

Sorry gang.

MW7 , sent me these to post here 

[mightywing7]

Thanks again, tan top!! 

[Alaskan_TA]

3rd photo down in that series shows another oddity, two standard outside mirrors. (no remote)

Thanks!

[ECS]

Are you insinuating that this is a 4-door concept Charger that made its way out into the public and into the hands of a private owner who then affixed AutoMex stickers to the windows?

Nope!  I don't "insinuate" anything.  If I don't know something, I don't use my limited knowledge to try and hypothesize a scenario that makes sense to me.  I've had people tell me their stories and I've simply presented what they told me.  If I happen to believe what they said, that in no way validates the reality of the scenario.  I simply believe it and others are free to feel the contrary.  

If someone says that Chrysler "never" built certain Concepts due to the expense, then I question the linear logic as to why they built vehicles that look like Spaceships and never made it to production.  How were they able to afford building those?  Not only that, there is no aspect of those Concepts that share any build features with the Cars that made it into production.  So what was their purpose for building those oddities?

[ws23rt]

It looks like a nice clean coronet that had a nose job.

Or?--no wait---It's a 70 charger that had an ass tuck job -butt- the doctor mixed up the pictures used in the plan for the target result.

[ws23rt]

That is one seriously ugly car!  

Agree---Fixing the lines of a charger are like correcting the smile on the Mona Lisa.

Waiter---I would like pennut butter and catsup on my well done prime rib please.

[lukedukem]

I'd put rims and exhaust on it and drive it

[A383Wing]

so where are the 4-door pictures of the 66 & 67 Chargers that Chrysler built?

[moparnation74]

It looks like a nice clean coronet that had a nose job.

Or?--no wait---It's a 70 charger that had an ass tuck job -butt- the doctor mixed up the pictures used in the plan for the target result.

Messing with the lines/body on a charger is like a bad dream...but many have had crazier dreams for sure...the majority had the common sense to leave it in dreamland....

[bill440rt]

I saw the car every day as well while attending Carlisle. I looked over it pretty closely also.

From my up close observation, someone did a neato job grafting a '70 Charger nose, Coronet lower fenders, and Charger door skins on a '70 Coronet 4-door. As stated gaps were all over the place, evidence of mig welding on close inspection, etc. The white paint appeared to be white primer, or a very dull (flat) white paint. Nothing more.
Definitely not a factory job.
Still a peachy "what if" car. Mexican stickers? Who knows. Maybe they were real.

Carry on. 

[taxspeaker]

I can say with 100% authority and confidence as a complete acknowledged & confirmed moron that Chrysler clearly made a 4 door Charger. Began in 2006 and looked as much like s*** as this one.

[lukedukem]

Did anyone happen to talk to the owner. Would've been neat to hear how he came across it.

Luke

[DAY CLONA]

IMO, what we saw in Carlisle may very well have been an Automex built 1970 4-door Coronet that somebody then grafted 1970 US-built Dodge Charger door skins and front clip to. Welding seams were visible in the wheel well on the fenders and the panel gaps were all over the place. Based on the Googling I did, the 4-door 1970 AutoMex Coronet is the most likely source of the vehicle as there was no Charger in 1970 and in 1971 it was introduced in the style of the Gen 3 Chargers.

There's the possibility the car is what it appears, there were many independent individuals/agencies in Mexico that converted US based vehicles creating some rather unique combinations, and usually licensed from the manufacturers to do so...have you ever seen a Mexican Shelby Mustang?...nothing like it's American brethren    

[RCCDrew]

I'm with Mr. Binsdurti.     

[moparnation74]

Did anyone happen to talk to the owner. Would've been neat to hear how he came across it.

Luke

I cannot recall the guys handle but he posted in a previously deleted thread I think over on For B Bodies Only....

He made a few posts about displaying a legit 4 door 70 charger at Carlisle....

[RGA]

It's a coronet with a charger front clip. No big deal. Waste of a good front clip.

[hemi-hampton]

I saw the car every day as well while attending Carlisle. I looked over it pretty closely also.

From my up close observation, someone did a neato job grafting a '70 Charger nose, Coronet lower fenders, and Charger door skins on a '70 Coronet 4-door. As stated gaps were all over the place, evidence of mig welding on close inspection, etc. The white paint appeared to be white primer, or a very dull (flat) white paint. Nothing more.
Definitely not a factory job.
Still a peachy "what if" car. Mexican stickers? Who knows. Maybe they were real.

Carry on. 


I'll have to agree with Bills professional opinion. 

[Aero426]

If that car from Carlisle was real,  don't you think it would have appeared somewhere, anywhere in the last 30 years of enthusiast publications?

The Charger body line running down the middle of the front fender and front door ends at the front of the rear door.     Frankly, it looks amateur and tacked together.      

[polywideblock]

looks to me like someone tacked a charger front end onto a 4door coronet and then added charger door skins to the front coronet doors to "make it flow " as they used to say   

and hey what's wrong with "well done" prime rib eye ?  "well done" is the only way to have it isn't it    can't stand bleeding meat 

[VegasCharger]

Thankfully this was done to represent a 1970 Charger 4 door style. I couldn't imagine seeing a 68 Charger 4 door using a 1968 Dodge Coronet 4 door.

As you may know or not know by my replies here on this site, I put the 1970 Charger at the bottom of the 3 model years. But don't get me wrong I would rather own a 1970 Charger over any E Body or any A Body Mopar. As it still represents the iconic muscle car body lines of the 2nd gen Chargers.

[moparnation74]

It's like being a politician. If you put your life out in the public for all to see, there are going to be detractors. I think building four door cars is a huge waste of time. That's just my opinion. Nothing anyone can say is going to change that opinion. But is seems from the red 4D Cuda thread that you have more supporters than haters. Focus on the supporters and you'll be much happier. BTW, I read the whole 4D Cuda thread. Even though I don't like the car, I love the effort, heart and build quality you have put into the car.
I don't like lowriders either but I appreciate the effort.

Good points.....There is not one person here that would disagree with the quality and workmanship of a build of that magnitude...

The story is what will be questioned and constantly scrutinized when there is no concrete factual proof other than mere words.....The owner just needs to listen to yours words above about focusing on the supporters and stop running around constantly rehashing the same thing over and over.....

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and that is OK, heck even ECS has taken pop shots at my car in the past and I blew them off with no rebuttal.  Why?  Because that doesn't bother me....It is all how one is secure with themselves.....

[BananaDan]

Did anyone happen to talk to the owner. Would've been neat to hear how he came across it.

Luke

I cannot recall the guys handle but he posted in a previously deleted thread I think over on For B Bodies Only....

He made a few posts about displaying a legit 4 door 70 charger at Carlisle....

The car was there when we arrived on Thursday and never moved through when we left on Sunday. It sat there locked up and I never saw an owner.   

[LaOtto70Charger]

I am confused. Did ECS build this Mexican factory 4 door Charger concept car? Does it have a matching VIN?

[cbrestorations]

Somewhere...somebody needs a good front clip for a real charger and it's being wasted on this 4 door coronet

[lukedukem]

All these pics and no pics of VIN.

Luke

[BananaDan]

All these pics and no pics of VIN.

Luke

They had their show placard over the VIN plate, windows up and doors locked all weekend.

[moparnation74]

All these pics and no pics of VIN.

Luke

They had their show placard over the VIN plate, windows up and doors locked all weekend.

Dan,

I heard that as well and the owner was nowhere to be found....One of my good friends was hanging with you a bit at Carlisle.  Sometimes a big world is small, PM me if you do not know whom that person is...

[6spd68]

"Coronet" is what they should have called the 4 door sedan they put out 10+ years ago.....instead of calling it "Charger". 

And before anyone gets upset, think about it.....is there a 4 door Camaro or Mustang? 

I have been preaching this from the top of Mt. Sinai since 2006.  Yet we keep calling those Chrysler 300's with Dodge body kits; "Chargers".

[BananaDan]

All these pics and no pics of VIN.

Luke

They had their show placard over the VIN plate, windows up and doors locked all weekend.

Dan,

I heard that as well and the owner was nowhere to be found....One of my good friends was hanging with you a bit at Carlisle.  Sometimes a big world is small, PM me if you do not know whom that person is...

PM'd

[lukedukem]

All these pics and no pics of VIN.

Luke

They had their show placard over the VIN plate, windows up and doors locked all weekend.

Man that sux, i cant believe that the owner wasn't around and no one got to talk to him. did he just pull off the ultimate catfish. 

stage a car like this at a show and leave, letting everyone take pics and wonder. 

Luke

[polywideblock]

All these pics and no pics of VIN.

Luke

They had their show placard over the VIN plate, windows up and doors locked all weekend.

say wasn't that the same MO for the FAKE 6pac with air  and cruise charger 

[BananaDan]

All these pics and no pics of VIN.

Luke

They had their show placard over the VIN plate, windows up and doors locked all weekend.

say wasn't that the same MO for the FAKE 6pac with air  and cruise charger 

It was a few years ago but I'm pretty sure I recall that guy being around his car trying to convince people it was real.

[Charger_Fan]

Bummer, I opened this thread expecting to see something like this... 

[moparnation74]

Bummer, I opened this thread expecting to see something like this... 

Lol

[Brock Lee]

What I wonder is:

*- If factory, they went through a lot of trouble to mod those front doors. Why not add the center body line on the Coronet parts, or remove it from the Charger?

*- If factory, they went through a lot of trouble to mod those front doors and add a flip top gas cap. Why not add the Charger tailpanel to complete the package?

I WANT to believe, but it is incomplete work. You would figure if they were going to go out and modify doors and add a flip top gas cap, those same fabricators would do the tailpanel mods, to either accept the deck lid of the Coronet, or a modified Charger?

[Mike DC]

          
Occam's Razar.  It's a backyard job.


I wish the factory HAD built those things - lots of little Charger front & rearend parts would be so much cheaper if they had been used on zillions of 4drs. 

[6spd68]

         
Occam's Razar.  It's a backyard job.


I wish the factory HAD built those things - lots of little Charger front & rearend parts would be so much cheaper if they had been used on zillions of 4drs. 

I hear you!  Hence why GM parts are so cheap (Cutlass, Chevelle, skylark, etc.)

[69CoronetRT]

So is it a Corger? A Charnet??

[G-man]

"Coronet" is what they should have called the 4 door sedan they put out 10+ years ago.....instead of calling it "Charger".  

And before anyone gets upset, think about it.....is there a 4 door Camaro or Mustang?  

There isn't a 4 door charger to my knowledge. Just a falsely badged something-rather. 

[Mytur Binsdirti]

So is it a Corger? A Charnet??

I think it's a Chargerina.

[VegasCharger]

         
Occam's Razar.  It's a backyard job.


I wish the factory HAD built those things - lots of little Charger front & rearend parts would be so much cheaper if they had been used on zillions of 4drs. 

Although I don't own one, this is a good benefit owning a Coronet, GTX and Roadrunner. More cars to pillage for parts.

Great thinking. 

[Tom Q]

You guys are the worst bunch of crotchety mopar children ever - this is not directed at ECS but the rest of you.
While Ted is given a free pass to re-body a Daytona you all are wallowing in opinionated opinions about a 4 door Mexican Charger...

[Lennard]

You guys are the worst bunch of crotchety mopar children ever - this is not directed at ECS but the rest of you.
While Ted is given a free pass to re-body a Daytona you all are wallowing in opinionated opinions about a 4 door Mexican Charger...

I apologize for giving my opinion that the rear half looks like a Coronet.

[moparnation74]

You guys are the worst bunch of crotchety mopar children ever - this is not directed at ECS but the rest of you.
While Ted is given a free pass to re-body a Daytona you all are wallowing in opinionated opinions about a 4 door Mexican Charger...

Yikes...another beneficial Tom Q post

Define rebody of this 4 door charger?  Inquiring minds would like to know.......

BTW, have you kept abreast on the Stephens build?  You may want to check out the aero section before making wrong comments...

Just saying, lol

[Mytur Binsdirti]

BTW, have you kept abreast on the Stephens build?  

Personally, I prefer to keep abreast on a breast. Or two.

[Mike DC]

 
LOL, Cookie Monster wants some cupcakes.  


------------------------------      
   

Mopar won't call the modern 4dr LX Charger a "Coronet" for the same reason why Ford builds a new Taurus but not a Fairlane or Galaxie.  Some classic names sound too dated for modern buyers.  

The Charger name was chosen a decade ago just because the name tested favorably with modern buyers, not because they were building any retro 68-70 car or 1999 concept car.  (And Daimler/Benz publicly said all this.  They said it months/years before the car debuted.)

The Challenger name probably withstood testing for 2008 too, if the outcry over the '06 Charger and the high-selling retro '05 Mustang wasn't enough convincing.

[JB400]

I'd lower it and drive it.

[djcarguy]

Bummer, I opened this thread expecting to see something like this... 


[/quote     

[djcarguy]

   just found a 69 C-net wagon for$500 roller,no front sheet metal ? anyone have some useable 68 -69 Charger hood an fenders?   Maybee 70 charger sheet metal an tona nose ,and like foot tall wing?   :icon_smile_question :  

[djcarguy]

  i 'd like to make a 2 door charger nose sedan delivery,, with this 69 c-net wagon.     a lot like the 2 door chager wagon Steveirino posted on the charger wagon thread.