Heat riser ?

[photon]

I am fighting overheating issues with my 69 charger and have timed, tuned, or replaced everything but change my new radiator for a new aluminum radiator.  It was suggested to look at my heat riser.  If you are standing in front of the car the round counterbalance is facing the front of the car.  I made a horizontal chalk line at the 9 O clock position.  I took the car for a drive.  The heat moved the chalk line on the counterbalance clockwise to the 12 O clock position.  I read in a few post on this site and others that it should move in a counterclockwise position when it opens up.  Is mine working correctly and it should move clockwise?  Thanks for your help and advice

[PlainfieldCharger]

I don't think the heat riser is causing your over heating. It could cause the fuel to boil in the carb as many have had that problem and use the special fel pro gasket that has the passages blocked off. The heat riser is part of the carb's choke function to help start the car when it is cold. I would look at the this thread.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.0.html

The solutions in this thread are right on. 

[photon]

I have read that post in full early on in my overheating problem.  I changed from the aluminum pump housing to the old cast iron, changed the thermostat, water pump, etc...... I know I am drawing at straws.  I read in the trouble shooting section of my 67-70 charger chiton's guide that the riser may be a source of overheating.  It looks like I may go for the 2 core aluminum radiator.  Just a question, would having an electric choke negate the need for the heat riser?  

[PlainfieldCharger]

I have read that post in full early on in my overheating problem.  I changed from the aluminum pump housing to the old cast iron, changed the thermostat, water pump, etc...... I know I am drawing at straws.  I read in the trouble shooting section of my 67-70 charger chiton's guide that the riser may be a source of overheating.  It looks like I may go for the 2 core aluminum radiator.  Just a question, would having an electric choke negate the need for the heat riser?  

I would just wire it to the open position, if it is stuck closed it could cause overheating. Many have been removed and the shaft hole plugged. It is designed to all work together to help you engine start in cold weather. I personally would remove the heat riser and use the valley that plugs the crossovers and go with a manual choke or a carb with and electric choke. Some don't run a choke at all... Hope this helps..

[comet_666]

My car used to overheat all the time. I found my lower rad hose was sucking shut under acceleration. The spring inside was gone. Replaced that hose and put new spring in it and replaced radiator and it never moved over 190.

[c00nhunterjoe]

What radiator is in the car now, what fan is on the car now, what shroud is on the car now? When does it overheat- idle, cruise, hard driving or all of the above?

[photon]

I have a mew 26 inch stock radiator in the car with fan shroud.  The car has a flex fan.  A milodon pump and milodon 180 degree thermostat.  It runs about 180-185 at cruise.  I am happy with that.  Then when I come to a stop in traffic it starts to climb and gets close to the 225-230 mark.  I was told that maybe the water is not spending enough time in the rad and not cooling it.  Where a two core aluminum thicker rad may do the trick. My motor has been rebuilt close to stock power.  I did replace the pump housing from aluminum to factory cast iron because of the overheating article on this site and that didn't help my issues.  The spring in the lower rad hose is fine and does not collapse upon acceleration.  I am sick of throwing money at my heating problems.  If a new rad would do the trick, I would gladly buy one.  Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Is it a 2row or 3 row rad? Your problem sounds like airflow at idle, not waterflow. What model flex fan? The one with knife edged blades or the large oval blades? Running a shroud??? Stock 2 row with a shroud and larger flex fan should cool fine. If you have no shroud and the smaller fan, i put my money on that.

[c00nhunterjoe]

If its this fan, throw it away.


My setup cooled at unlimited idle, stock radiator, stock shroud, flex fan just inside shroud.

[photon]

It is a 3 row with fan shroud.  I have the same fan and shroud you have in the photo you posted.  I guess I may look into my fan size.  I am going to ask a stupid question.  I currently do not have a overflow tank. Does that let air into the system and cause any problems with heating? My thoughts are no, but I thought I should ask. I also have a spacer behind the fan.  Is there a recommended distance the fan should be spaced behind the radiator?  I am just struggling to find my issue.

[c00nhunterjoe]

You have the fan in the single photo with the knife blades? Or the fan in the engine picture? Huge difference. As far as the distance goes, as long as the blades are just inside the lip of the shroud, its fine. See if at idle, you can get a shop rag to stick to the front of the radiator by the airflow pulling it. If it falls, airflow is not enough, should look like its trying to get sucked through.

[photon]

I have the fan that is in the engine photo.  I can put a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator at idle and it holds fine. I really appreciate the dialogue. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

A 26" 3 row should have no problems cooling a stock 440.  i dont want to see you throw money at an aluminum radiator and still have it run hot, or mask another problem. Milodon makes 2 model water pumps. Which did you use? Ive never been a fan of high volume. Stock pumps move more then enough water and what has powered my cars without any issue.

[photon]

I ended up getting the high vol pump with that plate welded behind the impellers. My old pump looked just like the new milodon minus the plate.  They both had 8 impellers.  It was suggested look for a pump with 6 impellers to move the water slower so it might get a chance to stay in the radiator more and be cooler upon exiting.  I am bringing the car to a friends house this weekend to use his digital temp gauge and see the temp diff between the upper and lower rad hose.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I would put a stock water pump on it before changing radiators.

[photon]

I will give that a try.  I am first going to replace my 6 blade flex fan with a 7 blade steel clutch fan.  I found it in my parts supply.  I read an old post that someone had luck changing back.

[PlainfieldCharger]

I ended up getting the high vol pump with that plate welded behind the impellers. My old pump looked just like the new milodon minus the plate.  They both had 8 impellers.  It was suggested look for a pump with 6 impellers to move the water slower so it might get a chance to stay in the radiator more and be cooler upon exiting.  I am bringing the car to a friends house this weekend to use his digital temp gauge and see the temp diff between the upper and lower rad hose.

I have the pump you are talking about matched to a Older Mopar Performance Aluminum water pump housing. Just this change alone dropped my temp 25 degrees and now it rock steady . My water flow when the thermostat opens is like a river. I want to get my AC working so I put the condenser in front of the Radiator and she is still staying cool. I know I had an old purple cam in the car that used to run hot and was gasoline brand sensitive to pinging.....

Do you know if your thermostat is working properly? What about a system back flush? Did you set the timing with the distributor advanced being plugged? The timing being off can cause your engine to run hot too....  Just some more thoughts....

[c00nhunterjoe]

I ended up getting the high vol pump with that plate welded behind the impellers. My old pump looked just like the new milodon minus the plate.  They both had 8 impellers.  It was suggested look for a pump with 6 impellers to move the water slower so it might get a chance to stay in the radiator more and be cooler upon exiting.  I am bringing the car to a friends house this weekend to use his digital temp gauge and see the temp diff between the upper and lower rad hose.

I have the pump you are talking about matched to a Older Mopar Performance Aluminum water pump housing. Just this change alone dropped my temp 25 degrees and now it rock steady . My water flow when the thermostat opens is like a river. I want to get my AC working so I put the condenser in front of the Radiator and she is still staying cool. I know I had an old purple cam in the car that used to run hot and was gasoline brand sensitive to pinging.....

Do you know if your thermostat is working properly? What about a system back flush? Did you set the timing with the distributor advanced being plugged? The timing being off can cause your engine to run hot too....  Just some more thoughts....

Is your engine bone stock? 25° from just a pump swap tells me there is something else going on with a stock engine.

[PlainfieldCharger]

I ended up getting the high vol pump with that plate welded behind the impellers. My old pump looked just like the new milodon minus the plate.  They both had 8 impellers.  It was suggested look for a pump with 6 impellers to move the water slower so it might get a chance to stay in the radiator more and be cooler upon exiting.  I am bringing the car to a friends house this weekend to use his digital temp gauge and see the temp diff between the upper and lower rad hose.

I have the pump you are talking about matched to a Older Mopar Performance Aluminum water pump housing. Just this change alone dropped my temp 25 degrees and now it rock steady . My water flow when the thermostat opens is like a river. I want to get my AC working so I put the condenser in front of the Radiator and she is still staying cool. I know I had an old purple cam in the car that used to run hot and was gasoline brand sensitive to pinging.....

Do you know if your thermostat is working properly? What about a system back flush? Did you set the timing with the distributor advanced being plugged? The timing being off can cause your engine to run hot too....  Just some more thoughts....

Is your engine bone stock? 25° from just a pump swap tells me there is something else going on with a stock engine.

My Engine is not stock. The High flow Mid water pump with the anti cavitation plate with a high flow (Mopar oem 180 high flow thermostat) was for me the best "up grade" for cooler running temps for my car as it would become heatsoaked on long drives as I usually take my car on 175 mile drives. Starting the car after getting gas was fun. Not a problem anymore...There are many things this could be. If it is not the items in the Sticky overheating thread not causing the OP overheating...something out of the norm is going on or being assumed correct...I like putting an IR temp gun on the exhaust manifolds, thermostat housing, carb...there are pretty cheap nowadays. It can help put you in the right direction.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Good points, but his engine is stock and should not "need" a performance water pump to run 180° .

I am curious on a side note as to how changing water pumps prevented your car from heat soaking after you shut it off and it sits?

[PlainfieldCharger]

Good points, but his engine is stock and should not "need" a performance water pump to run 180° .

I am curious on a side note as to how changing water pumps prevented your car from heat soaking after you shut it off and it sits?

Hey Joe,
I know you now your stuff and have read many of your posts. Do you really want to know my opininon or you

[c00nhunterjoe]

Good points, but his engine is stock and should not "need" a performance water pump to run 180° .

I am curious on a side note as to how changing water pumps prevented your car from heat soaking after you shut it off and it sits?

Hey Joe,
I know you now your stuff and have read many of your posts. Do you really want to know my opininon or you

I meant it as a serious question, no poking. You said the water pump stopped your heat soak problems while filling up at gas stations. My question as to how a water pump that doesnt spin when the engine is off fixed this is legitimate. Like me or not, you made the post and i am curious.

[PlainfieldCharger]

After driving the car for long periods of time at speed and exiting the highway and driving the mile of so to the gas station. The temp would climb to about 215-220 still run good but turn it off would not turn over till it cooled off for about 10 min. Read the thread on overheating. changed my water pump and thermostat. Temp Holds steady all of the time. The pump that was in the car...was not moving the coolant anywhere near the way it moves now. I have since installed my AC condenser to see what effect that would have and things look good. Going to start restoring my AC now. Maybe a  bad part pump when I got the car. I was really impressed with the test on the mopar water pumps comparison thread to see that the Milodon with the anti-cavitation plate would pump almost 11 gal a min at an 1100 idle. Too much? Hasn't been for me. I would not classify my car to overheating as it never pissed the coolant once it found its level about an inch from the top. So I called it heat soak. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

After driving the car for long periods of time at speed and exiting the highway and driving the mile of so to the gas station. The temp would climb to about 215-220 still run good but turn it off would not turn over till it cooled off for about 10 min. Read the thread on overheating. changed my water pump and thermostat. Temp Holds steady all of the time. The pump that was in the car...was not moving the coolant anywhere near the way it moves now. I have since installed my AC condenser to see what effect that would have and things look good. Going to start restoring my AC now. Maybe a  bad part pump when I got the car. I was really impressed with the test on the mopar water pumps comparison thread to see that the Milodon with the anti-cavitation plate would pump almost 11 gal a min at an 1100 idle. Too much? Hasn't been for me. I would not classify my car to overheating as it never pissed the coolant once it found its level about an inch from the top. So I called it heat soak. 

Now that explains the story for those who dont understand the theory. I figured as such, but you origonal statement gave the implication that a water pump would cure heat soak and we dont need someone scrolling through reading that and running out to buy a part that they dont need. Its all good.

[PlainfieldCharger]

So the water pump didn't solve my problem or my explanation is incorrect?