Weighing my options...

[SmashingPunkFan]

Trying to decide how to approach this problem.

The gas tank filler section of the drivers side quarter has a significant amount of pitting and rust. Is there a patch? Should I use a rust remover then try to fill in the voids?

I bought lower rear quarters,  and don't really wanna purchase a full quarter because of the problem. But if I have no choice, then I shall move forward on it.


Any insight is greatly appreciated

[Cncguy]

 I'm thinking you should Remove any rust and use lead/tin to fill in pits, and smooth it out.

[Troy]

I believe I have that section from a cut up car.

Troy

[SmashingPunkFan]

I'm thinking you should Remove any rust and use lead/tin to fill in pits, and smooth it out.

Okay,  awesome. I'll search YouTube for some instructionals

[SmashingPunkFan]

I believe I have that section from a cut up car.

Troy

Are you looking to let go of that part?  If so, how much?

[Troy]

I believe I have that section from a cut up car.

Troy

Are you looking to let go of that part?  If so, how much?

It's a big section of the top of the quarter but I could trim it so shipping wouldn't be a nightmare. The bigger problem is digging it out of the garage (from wherever I stuck it so it wouldn't get damaged). I won't be back over there until Sunday at the earliest. I thought I had pictures online but don't see them on my Photobucket account.

Troy

[new2muscle]

If it was MY car, I would acid clean the pits/rust, clean and flush the area, Tin and Solder the pits (yes, old school), file and prime.

Easier than a patch panel, and MUCH less work to get straight again.

Good luck...

[SmashingPunkFan]

If it was MY car, I would acid clean the pits/rust, clean and flush the area, Tin and Solder the pits (yes, old school), file and prime.

Easier than a patch panel, and MUCH less work to get straight again.

Good luck...

I like that idea. I feel fairly confident in patching stuff in, but this has to be straight. What's the process of using led to fill in?
Thanks

[Cncguy]

If it was MY car, I would acid clean the pits/rust, clean and flush the area, Tin and Solder the pits (yes, old school), file and prime.

Easier than a patch panel, and MUCH less work to get straight again.

Good luck...

I like that idea. I feel fairly confident in patching stuff in, but this has to be straight. What's the process of using led to fill in?
Thanks

I believe you can buy the whole kit with instructional video from eastwood.com

[redgum78]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzGZZJZSZ9Y



Also google "Peach and Tommasini". A couple of old school panel workers from Australia that made a whole dvd series on lead wiping, english wheel, stretching and shrinking and forming metal. Really good.

[redgum78]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzGZZJZSZ9Y



Also google "Peach and Tommasini". A couple of old school panel workers from Australia that made a whole dvd series on lead wiping, english wheel, stretching and shrinking and forming metal. Really good.

From memory you also need to get proper body lead/solder. I think it has less tin content (or maybe the other way around?) which gives a wider heat range where the solder is plastic allowing you to work it. Regular solder has a very narrow plastic range, in other words as you apply heat it goes from solid to fully liquid very fast.

[SmashingPunkFan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzGZZJZSZ9Y



Also google "Peach and Tommasini". A couple of old school panel workers from Australia that made a whole dvd series on lead wiping, english wheel, stretching and shrinking and forming metal. Really good.

From memory you also need to get proper body lead/solder. I think it has less tin content (or maybe the other way around?) which gives a wider heat range where the solder is plastic allowing you to work it. Regular solder has a very narrow plastic range, in other words as you apply heat it goes from solid to fully liquid very fast.

You all are life savers. I was gearing up ti parch this,  and I'm glad I didn't.
I will definitely go solder/tin fill.
Thank you

[SmashingPunkFan]

Any thoughts on this? Same perhaps, with solder/tin fill?

The circled area is cancer,  and will be patched for sure.

Thanks for all the help

[Patronus]

Agreed on the idea of leading the pits. If done right you may be able to wipe the lead as it cools with a cloth saving huge on the sanding. You can buy 70/30 lead or lead free even. (So as to not create lead dust when you sand) Either is fine. The Eastwood kit is nice, probably plenty of product for your application. Find something to practice on first maybe... Heat is key, not too much. Don't need to rush.

[Cncguy]

Any thoughts on this? Same perhaps, with solder/tin fill?

The circled area is cancer,  and will be patched for sure.

Thanks for all the help

If that's the quarter/roof seam, yes you will need to lead it.

[new2muscle]

It takes practice and patience, but with some Utube video instruction and ample amounts of both, you will find that its not all that hard. Learning the right heat to keep the solder plastic is the hard part. Buy some wood paddles (or make your own, not hard), get some good tinning flux and lead solder, and practice away. Use beeswax on the paddles to keep them from sticking. If you dont like the result, warm it up again, wipe it off, and do over.

And whatever you do, wear a mask when working with lead solder. I dont like the lead free stuff, it just isnt the same.

Its an old school skill that everyone can learn. and the repairs are permanent. They wont shrink or chip.

[SmashingPunkFan]

Awesome.

The roof/quarter meeting area x it's completely gone in the circle. And cancerous a little further up. Can I lead fill what's missing?  Or does a small need to be placed,  then lead filled?

[new2muscle]

 Lead solder is never a replacement for perforated, cancerous metal. Patch or weld what you need to, then solder up the joint. Looks like that is about a 1/2 inch area that is bad, so just do that part and then fill with solder, then skim with body filler. Getting the quarter panel seam leaded right takes some doing, but its how the factory did it.....for a reason. Good luck..... and remember, don't apply too much heat, which will warp panels. Solder melts at around 180 degrees.

[SmashingPunkFan]

Lead solder is never a replacement for perforated, cancerous metal. Patch or weld what you need to, then solder up the joint. Looks like that is about a 1/2 inch area that is bad, so just do that part and then fill with solder, then skim with body filler. Getting the quarter panel seam leaded right takes some doing, but its how the factory did it.....for a reason. Good luck..... and remember, don't apply too much heat, which will warp panels. Solder melts at around 180 degrees.

Heres a closeup.  It's worse than the last picture allowed you to see

[SmashingPunkFan]

Also, I'm extremely hard on myself about the work I do, so if any of the welds I show look like crap, please inform me. I'd rather fix it right than be than be an idiot with a welder lol

I have a problem with a patch I already worked out about a month ago...

It's showing moisture exposure from the inside, and I'm not sure exactly how to fix it.

I used self-etch primer on it inside and out, and it's still coming through.

[hemi-hampton]

Self etching primer always goes on thin like water, I always cover it with a coat of epoxy & 2 coats if it's going to be sitting around a while & don't do what some people do, Some people think OH, Now that I got the bare metal primed with 1 coat of etch or epoxy, I can now let it sit outside in rain & winter for next 10 years. LEON.

[SmashingPunkFan]

Self etching primer always goes on thin like water, I always cover it with a coat of epoxy & 2 coats if it's going to be sitting around a while & don't do what some people do, Some people think OH, Now that I got the bare metal primed with 1 coat of etch or epoxy, I can now let it sit outside in rain & winter for next 10 years. LEON.

Ahh, I see.
And what's a good quality, but cheap brand to use? Cause it'll eventually come back off

[new2muscle]

From what I can see, it looks like surface rust staining from where the layers join. I would shoot it from front and behind with some POR15 or something like that, or a good DTM epoxy.

[SmashingPunkFan]

From what I can see, it looks like surface rust staining from where the layers join. I would shoot it from front and behind with some POR15 or something like that, or a good DTM epoxy.

I removed some of the repair, and I'm going to redo it.  I'll probably use por15 on the inside. It's all coming from behind

[Dino]

Self etching primer always goes on thin like water, I always cover it with a coat of epoxy & 2 coats if it's going to be sitting around a while & don't do what some people do, Some people think OH, Now that I got the bare metal primed with 1 coat of etch or epoxy, I can now let it sit outside in rain & winter for next 10 years. LEON.

Ahh, I see.
And what's a good quality, but cheap brand to use? Cause it'll eventually come back off

SPI epoxy. It is cheap, high quality and free shipping. Just make sure to follow the rules to the letter and you'll have great results. Don't even bother with etch primer.

If you want to do it right then you cover all clean and bare metal with epoxy. It is the only primer that is waterproof. Then do your repairs on top of that and always re-epoxy bare metal before going to the next step. You can spot spray it, you don't have to redo entire panels when you sand through to the metal. When you're ready for a high build primer shoot two more coats of epoxy, let it dry for 1-7 days and follow it with a few coats f high build primer. Sand and repat until you're ready for paint, then shoot thinned epoxy as a sealer followed by topcoat. All primer and topcoat let water through like a sponge so having all the metal sealed by epoxy is the way to go.

[SmashingPunkFan]

Self etching primer always goes on thin like water, I always cover it with a coat of epoxy & 2 coats if it's going to be sitting around a while & don't do what some people do, Some people think OH, Now that I got the bare metal primed with 1 coat of etch or epoxy, I can now let it sit outside in rain & winter for next 10 years. LEON.

Ahh, I see.
And what's a good quality, but cheap brand to use? Cause it'll eventually come back off

SPI epoxy. It is cheap, high quality and free shipping. Just make sure to follow the rules to the letter and you'll have great results. Don't even bother with etch primer.

If you want to do it right then you cover all clean and bare metal with epoxy. It is the only primer that is waterproof. Then do your repairs on top of that and always re-epoxy bare metal before going to the next step. You can spot spray it, you don't have to redo entire panels when you sand through to the metal. When you're ready for a high build primer shoot two more coats of epoxy, let it dry for 1-7 days and follow it with a few coats f high build primer. Sand and repat until you're ready for paint, then shoot thinned epoxy as a sealer followed by topcoat. All primer and topcoat let water through like a sponge so having all the metal sealed by epoxy is the way to go.

Thanks for all the info.
I've gotten nothing but mixed messages about primers, and how to use them.
The environment I'm working in is subject to moisture in the air, not directly dripping on the car. And very dusty, but it's all I have. And I've been covering all repairs with self etch unfortunately do to previous advice.
So sectional working is definitely what my options are.
Are these epoxys available in spray cans? Or do they come in pints only?

[Dino]

They come in quarts, I don't think they sell pints. But it's less than $40 for a quart. There's no real epoxy in a can, you need to mix it with activator. There's a brand of spray can paint with an activator you mix just before spraying but don't bother with those. Etch is what we used before we had epoxy. It still has its uses but not here. Epoxy is the only primer you should use on bare metal, period.  Prep your metal right and obey the SPI rules and you can stop worrying about moisture. 
Be sure to spray the inside of the panels as well though or this is all a moot point.   

[SmashingPunkFan]

Be sure to spray the inside of the panels as well though or this is all a moot point.   

That right there is gold info. All of my rust bleeding issues have been from the inside panels leaking through a welded void or pin hole. I'm trying my damnedest to make sure everything is sealed tight, but it's very time consuming and challenging.
Slowly it's coming along though

[SmashingPunkFan]

For anyone who has used POR15, what is the worse condition metal you've applied it to?

I have some sections that are very rusty, and would require several more panels and about 2k in money.
But if the metal is still internally strong enough to withstand its duties as under roof skeleton,  then I will use alot of por15

[new2muscle]

 Two things...

I fully agree that SPI expoxy is great stuff, and they are great people to deal with.

http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/

I have had good luck with using POR15 on metal that hasnt been penetrated all the way through, I used it to paint the entire underside of my 70 charger. Problem is the price. I found a substitute (Chassis Saver) that IMHO,  works just as well for me, same benefits and drawbacks, just a bit cheaper.

http://www.magnetpaints.com/underbody.asp

Only problem with POR15 type products is that is isnt easily sanded, so use it where it wont show or where you know you wont have to do any finish work. Spraying it isnt hard, but it levels REALLY well and you can just use a brush and get great results. Under-side-of-the-car type places and floorpans, etc. I applied mine by brush, and you cant tell that it wasn't sprayed. Pretty damm messy tho......painting upside down.

POR15 makes a putty as well.... I used it on the roof for some corroded spots. Its just really thick POR15.

Have fun !

[new2muscle]

One thing I forgot.... just make sure you mechanically clean all the surfaces first. Aggressive wire wheel all corroded areas first, degrease, then apply POR 15.

[SmashingPunkFan]

One thing I forgot.... just make sure you mechanically clean all the surfaces first. Aggressive wire wheel all corroded areas first, degrease, then apply POR 15.

Awesome info. Will do on the prep stage.
The under body is a great idea, I want something to keep it all safe

[new2muscle]

  Take your time and have fun....

  If I remember, it took 2 quarts to do the whole underside of the car.

[SmashingPunkFan]

  Take your time and have fun....

  If I remember, it took 2 quarts to do the whole underside of the car.

Always having fun with this if I'm not enjoying it, I stop till I'm ready to assume the task at hand.

The only real frustrating part is when some repairs fail, and need redoing