8 3/4" pumpkin swap questions

[66FBCharger]

My wife's car has an 8 3/4" rear. I had a sure grip pumpkin built by Dr. Diff a few years back and I've never had the time to put it in. I am hoping to do the swap this weekend.
Since I am planning to do the swap in my garage, what I want to know is how far out do I need to pull the axles to let me remove the pumpkin? Will the axle spacer be able to fall out of the pumpkin or is it captured somehow?
Do you have any tips or advice for things that can go wrong?
Thanks.

[crj1968]

You axles probably need to come out 6 inches or so, but you'll know soon enough.

I've never had any issues with the little button/spacer thing....BUT  you might consider getting a set of axles from Dr Diff with the "green bearings" they are cheap enough and dont require the button or any adjustment.   

[A383Wing]

don't forget there are inner axle seals in the differential housing....if you only pull the axles out enough to pull the pumpkin, you will be letting the axle shafts lay on the seals distorting them and possibly either tearing the seal or the inner spring might pop off......either way, if this happens, you will end up with rear end lube all over your rear brakes....do you really want to take that chance?

pull the axles all the way out....you might even want to purchase a couple new seals to install anyway

[John_Kunkel]

  Pull 'em all the way out. Once the old 3rd member is out you can determine the status of the thrust buttons if it's a Sure-Grip, if not Sure-Grip no worry.

[66FBCharger]

The reason I was asking is, I was going to do the job in the garage and I am concerned I might not have enough room to pull the axles out without hitting the wall.
I have spare seals just in case.

[Sublime/Sixpack]

FWIW I don't pull the axles out all the way unless I plan to replace the seals in the housing (and have never had a problem with the axles resting on the seals for the short amount of time it takes to change out the 3rd member). But if you do pull the axles all the way out be sure not to allow the splines on the end of the axles to make contact with the seals. The splines can be sharp enough to cut the seals.

[John_Kunkel]

have never had a problem with the axles resting on the seals for the short amount of time it takes to change out the 3rd member

Even the vaunted Mopar guru E-booger does it that way but that doesn't make it wise.  He also crows about the "sharp splines" but I've never seen one sharp enough to cut anything.

[66FBCharger]

I guess I'll plan on pulling the axles all the way out. I'll probably end up doing the swap outside in the driveway to get some extra room.
Thanks for all the responses!

[RallyeMike]

You never know what you will find. A bad bearing is found and your car is sitting outside for a week. Keep it in the garage - pull the axles 6 inches out and support them with a jack stand or other method so they don't rest on the seals.

[AKcharger]

here ya' go...you're welcome!
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,2077.msg26571.html#msg26571

[66FBCharger]

Thanks AKCharger.
How much time should I plan to do this swap?

[Troy]

I am no expert and the first one I did took me less than 3 hours. About half of that felt like putting it on an off jack stands...

I no longer use a gasket - just the silver colored sealant. Every time I use a gasket on the pumpkin it leaks.

I only pull the axle out a few inches for it to disengage. I have a giant pile of seals though (Rock Auto had a closeout and I got them cheap) so changing them isn't a terrible idea. The outers are super easy to replace. Inners have to be pressed on and the whole axle has to come out.

Troy

[66FBCharger]

What brand and type of "silver sealer" did you use?

[Troy]

Ummm, I could tell you but people would freak out!

It's Toyota brand - but a lot of people swear the "Permatex Ultra Grey" is exactly the same (I have used both).
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-82195-High-Torque-Silicone-Gasket/dp/B000HBGK7O?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

I hear great things about the "Right Stuff" but I bought it in the pressurized can and only got about 6" of it before it seized up and won't squirt any more. Same experience I have with "weld through primer" in a can and I hate wasting money!

Off the top of my head I can't remember why the gray was preferred over black (high torque and vibration maybe?).

I just did a quick search and saw someone mention that gear oil can break down regular RTV. Who knew? So there's this:
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-81184-Gear-Gasket-Maker/dp/B005UZMP3A?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

Troy

[ACUDANUT]

That 90 weight oil is going to smell your whole house up.  Skunk juice is what we call it here in the Midwest.  Do it outside.

[66FBCharger]

Ummm, I could tell you but people would freak out!

It's Toyota brand - but a lot of people swear the "Permatex Ultra Grey" is exactly the same (I have used both).
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-82195-High-Torque-Silicone-Gasket/dp/B000HBGK7O?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

I hear great things about the "Right Stuff" but I bought it in the pressurized can and only got about 6" of it before it seized up and won't squirt any more. Same experience I have with "weld through primer" in a can and I hate wasting money!

Off the top of my head I can't remember why the gray was preferred over black (high torque and vibration maybe?).

I just did a quick search and saw someone mention that gear oil can break down regular RTV. Who knew? So there's this:
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-81184-Gear-Gasket-Maker/dp/B005UZMP3A?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

Troy

I found that Permatex for gear oil locally at Advanced auto. I'll use that. I will probably use some of that sealer with the gasket.

That 90 weight oil is going to smell your whole house up.  Skunk juice is what we call it here in the Midwest.  Do it outside.

The garage is detached from the house and the family will be gone for the day.

[AKcharger]

Thanks AKCharger.
How much time should I plan to do this swap?

2 hours at a leisurely pace

[66FBCharger]

I got the axles out. I pulled them all the way out. I got the pumpkin out in probably less than an hour.
A few questions:
The lock for the axle end play adjuster is missing. Where can I get one?
I had always heard it is a good idea to pack the axle bearings with grease since they are normally not exposed to the gear oil. Does the type of grease matter?

I confirmed, as I thought, that the car had 2.76s. I have a 3.31 Sure Grip built by Dr, Diff ready to go in. I can't wait to see if it makes a lot of difference.

[John_Kunkel]

3.31 gears? How old? Be careful of thrust block differences in the pre-'64 differentials.

Here's a lock tab and nut.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-8-3-4-Axle-Locking-Pawl-Flanged-Nut-Rear-End-Adjust-Bearing-1962-73-/331895457185?hash=item4d4682c5a1:g:agEAAOSwd4tTz-aQ&vxp=mtr

[ACUDANUT]

Yea, I never heard of a 331 gear ratio 

[A383Wing]

I have a set of 3.31's here....take a look in the 67 parts book....they are in there

[66FBCharger]

3.31 gears? How old? Be careful of thrust block differences in the pre-'64 differentials.

Here's a lock tab and nut.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-8-3-4-Axle-Locking-Pawl-Flanged-Nut-Rear-End-Adjust-Bearing-1962-73-/331895457185?hash=item4d4682c5a1:g:agEAAOSwd4tTz-aQ&vxp=mtr

Yea, I never heard of a 331 gear ratio 

Dr. Diff bought several sets of NOS 3.31gear sets. I had never heard of 3.31s either. He said they were used in the early 60s.
Yesterday,I was looking at the speedo pinion chart in the '69 FSM, there is a line that says 3.31 gear ratio, so apparently that was an available ratio. Judging by the tire sizes in the chart, I'm guessing they were used in the C bodies in '69.

[John_Kunkel]

The 3.31 gears used in the late sixties were in the Salisbury-type Spicer rear end used in 4-speed C-bodies, not the same as the 8 3/4.

If the earlier gears were installed on a Sure-Grip or later open differential there won't be any thrust block issues but if they're on an early differential be aware of the thrust block issue.

[66FBCharger]

If the earlier gears were installed on a Sure-Grip or later open differential there won't be any thrust block issues but if they're on an early differential be aware of the thrust block issue.

Thanks, John
I'll watch for that. As long as I can set the axle end play, would that would indicate that there is no issue with the thrust block?
The gears were installed on a new Sure grip (clutch type) carrier.

[A383Wing]

The 3.31 gears used in the late sixties were in the Salisbury-type Spicer rear end used in 4-speed C-bodies, not the same as the 8 3/4.

The set of 3.31 gears that I have here are in an 8-3/4 pumpkin....I ran them in my 66 years ago, until the pinion bearing went bad

[66FBCharger]

So I wanted to update this post.
I finally completed the job yesterday afternoon.
It took so long because some hack must have thrown this rear together with misc. parts and the weather has been brutal the last several weeks, so I had very little enthusiasm to do anything in the garage after sweating all day at work.
So the challenges I faced doing this swap are as follows:
The pumpkin that was in the car was a 2.76:1 one legger. It had some strange yoke on it. It was a little wider than the u joints and had a small tit sticking up on both sides to retain the caps. But it had no room to put c clips on the caps. So , I had to find the c clips to put on the caps to retain the u joint in my correct yoke. I was getting ready to buy a u joint, just for the clips when I decided to look through some misc. stuff that is still stored at my parent's house. I found 2 clips that fit perfectly.
The u joint clamps that were on the 2.76 yoke did not fit the correct yoke. I finally found a pair of straps with the correct bolts.
I went to install the straps and bolts and they would not tighten down. I had to run a tap through the yoke to get the bolts to tighten up.
I was getting ready to throw the pass side axle in and I thought I should back the adjuster out a little. Well someone had failed to put the locking pawl on the adjuster. They instead decided to hammer the crap out of the adjuster to hold the adjustment in place. I had to pull the bearing, seal and adjuster off and replace with new stuff I had purchased several years back at a swap meet.
I drove the car yesterday and the change in gear ratio is nice. It takes off a lot quicker. I left a small hole shot when I left my driveway, just to test out the Suregrip!

[John_Kunkel]

The yoke with the "small tit sticking up on both sides" is a Spicer, your car has Detroit u-joints. Mixing parts might be a disaster in the making. 

[66FBCharger]

The yoke with the "small tit sticking up on both sides" is a Spicer, your car has Detroit u-joints. Mixing parts might be a disaster in the making. 

John,
Fortunately, nothing happened with the Spicer yoke. I am planning to change that yoke out on the 2.76, just in case I want to put it back in sometime.