Hemi Super Bee WM21J8G****** What's it worth ?

[Daytona R/T SE]

WM21J8G****** What's it worth ?


Beat up, rusted.

318  under the hood, so I assume the original K-member is gone.

Column shift automatic.

Missing one fender.

Currently no title, but let's assume a clear title will be provided.

It's been stored inside for the last 15-20 years.

Full of raccoon shit.

What is the least it should bring ?  

[fc7_plumcrazy]

fender tag or broadcastsheet present to document the car?

Carsten

[Drache]

There was a burned out '68 Coronet Hemi car that sold for $5000 CDN missing the engine (fender tag and vin tag still there though) a few years ago.

[Daytona R/T SE]

fender tag or broadcastsheet present to document the car?

Carsten

Unknown.

It was freaking dark and hot in there.

But, the VIN tag is healthy and unmolested.

Still riveted to the dash with the correct rivets.

[Troy]

I loooooove 68 Coronets. Although I may shoot myself if I ever buy another project...

Troy

[Daytona R/T SE]

I loooooove 68 Coronets. Although I may shoot myself if I ever buy another project...

Troy

You would look good in it.  

[Troy]

I loooooove 68 Coronets. Although I may shoot myself if I ever buy another project...

Troy

You would look good in it. 

Yeah. Is is green? If it's blue and white it would match the rest of my fleet...

Troy

[Daytona R/T SE]

I loooooove 68 Coronets. Although I may shoot myself if I ever buy another project...

Troy

You would look good in it.  

Yeah. Is is green? If it's blue and white it would match the rest of my fleet...

Troy

It's either that pale yellow or white with a black interior.

Hard to tell...it was dark in there.

[Troy]

I loooooove 68 Coronets. Although I may shoot myself if I ever buy another project...

Troy

You would look good in it. 

Yeah. Is is green? If it's blue and white it would match the rest of my fleet...

Troy

It's either that pale yellow or white with a black interior.

Hard to tell...it was dark in there.

So you've got a rusty car in a dark, hot cave that you don't know anything about. This may impact the value slightly...

Still out of my budget.

Troy

[Daytona R/T SE]

I loooooove 68 Coronets. Although I may shoot myself if I ever buy another project...

Troy

You would look good in it.  

Yeah. Is is green? If it's blue and white it would match the rest of my fleet...

Troy

It's either that pale yellow or white with a black interior.

Hard to tell...it was dark in there.

So you've got a rusty car in a dark, hot cave that you don't know anything about. This may impact the value slightly...

Still out of my budget.

Troy

Yep.

Actually, the car is not mine, I was asked by a friend to take a look at it and try to give him a rough idea of what he could expect to get out of it.  

This is what happens when people put their cars in storage, and stop paying the rent.


     

[ws23rt]

So will this car be sold to pay for the storage rent owed?

[Daytona R/T SE]

So will this car be sold to pay for the storage rent owed?

I believe that is the plan.

It's been there a l-o-n-g time. 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

Fender tag and broadcastsheet are important to make a connection between the VIN and the body.
No tag, no sheet no real value

Carsten

[Daytona R/T SE]

Fender tag and broadcastsheet are important to make a connection between the VIN and the body.
No tag, no sheet no real value

Carsten

 

I'll know more when we hook a log chain to it and drag it out of there.  

[RallyeMike]

Out of curiosity, is being sold by the owner to pay back rent, or sold by the storage facility to collect whatever they can on the debt?

If the fender tag is there, I would guess $5-10k depending if we are talking mid-west rust or Montana rust.

[68X426]

Daytona, check your PM please.   

[Daytona R/T SE]

Out of curiosity, is being sold by the owner to pay back rent, or sold by the storage facility to collect whatever they can on the debt?

If the fender tag is there, I would guess $5-10k depending if we are talking mid-west rust or Montana rust.

It will eventually be sold by the property owner...


It's mid-west rust.

And...

Raccoon shit.

Lots of raccoon shit.

[Daytona R/T SE]

Daytona, check your PM please.   

Dan, I replied to you yesterday...

Just resent it. 

[68X426]

If that raccoon shit is organic it could be worth a good dollar in this day and age.

[Daytona R/T SE]

If that raccoon shit is organic it could be worth a good dollar in this day and age.

Bring a shovel.

[Daytona R/T SE]

Just found out...


No fender tag.

[TiMopar]

Is the fender tag super important on a 68/69 Hemi car? They don't have the possible options of say, a 70-71 car, so unless it's a factory black car, and the factory chassis modifications are present...

[68X426]

Is the fender tag super important on a 68/69 Hemi car? They don't have the possible options of say, a 70-71 car, so unless it's a factory black car, and the factory chassis modifications are present...

I agree - not super important.  The missing Hemi is what's the killer.

[ws23rt]

Is the fender tag super important on a 68/69 Hemi car? They don't have the possible options of say, a 70-71 car, so unless it's a factory black car, and the factory chassis modifications are present...

I also agree that a missing fender tag on a 68/69 hemi car is not huge a value issue.  

With the vin matching the body stamping's and the chassis modifications being correct as being the bigger deal here. (about it's heminess).  IMO those identifiers  would answer the biggest question a buyer needs to make a decision.

As for the rest of the trim and options not being documented by a tag?  ---So what--- the original engine is not their so it will never be what it once was.

A good question though is----If every original part on that car were present.  What would the lack of a fender tag have on the value?

[Drache]

Is the fender tag super important on a 68/69 Hemi car? They don't have the possible options of say, a 70-71 car, so unless it's a factory black car, and the factory chassis modifications are present...

I also agree that a missing fender tag on a 68/69 hemi car is not huge a value issue.  

With the vin matching the body stamping's and the chassis modifications being correct as being the bigger deal here. (about it's heminess).  IMO those identifiers  would answer the biggest question a buyer needs to make a decision.

As for the rest of the trim and options not being documented by a tag?  ---So what--- the original engine is not their so it will never be what it once was.

A good question though is----If every original part on that car were present.  What would the lack of a fender tag have on the value?

If the car had very rare options then the fender tag would help the value a little even without the original engine. But if it was just a totally plain normal car but just happened to come with a Hemi then really the fender tag isn't needed.

If you had a numbers matching car with very rare options and wanted top dollar then you'd need the fender tag to prove the car came with those options.

[paironines]

Fender tag is everything on this car. I wouldn't consider the car without it unless it was dirt cheap.

[ws23rt]

Since the market is made up of a mix of "investors" and "collectors" real value will always be hard to pin down.
One tends to feed off the other.

I am old enough to be more of a collector sort.  What I like is original stuff with no rational ($$) reason for it.

What makes my socks roll up and down is the car. Not how much the car can bring in dollars.
For me the fender tag helps describe the car that I can see for myself.

I do however get that for an investor it may be a big deal.  After all investors are looking for other investors in their long run.--The business side of the hobby

So I do have an original hemi coronet. I bought it in 1980 because it was what I wanted to buy in 1970 but could not.

Turning it into cash was never my intent and frankly it's current high value is a down side. (I get sucked into values like all of us) ---But that's what insurance is for.

[F8-4life]

Discussions aside, I would not let a og hemi 68-70 b body car go for less then 10k If I was the seller. Period. A 1968  hemi coronet super bee is better then a hemi RR in my eyes.
I would value this car based on what little information we have, at around 10k-15k, maybe a little more, which would be based on it's completeness and what rust issues are present. 20k is possible if it's not a turd. Tag and sheet are extremely important but if the car is very complete and original/unmolested, then the doubt of the pedigree decreases and also the importance of the missing tag/sheet as well.

[ws23rt]

Discussions aside, I would not let a og hemi 68-70 b body car go for less then 10k If I was the seller. Period. A 1968  hemi coronet super bee is better then a hemi RR in my eyes.
I would value this car based on what little information we have, at around 10k-15k, maybe a little more, which would be based on it's completeness and what rust issues are present. 20k is possible if it's not a turd. Tag and sheet are extremely important but if the car is very complete and original/unmolested, then the doubt of the pedigree decreases and also the importance of the missing tag/sheet as well.

[Nwcharger]

A few months ago I passed on a 68 hemi coronet rt. price was 20k and came with drivetrain (not numbers matching) and had its fender tag. Kinda regret passing on it but I'm more focused on my C500's and my Daytona now.

[cdr]

no fender tag on a 68 is a REAL big deal, remember 68 does NOT have the vin stampings on the body like the later cars have.

[Troy]

Is the fender tag super important on a 68/69 Hemi car? They don't have the possible options of say, a 70-71 car, so unless it's a factory black car, and the factory chassis modifications are present...

I also agree that a missing fender tag on a 68/69 hemi car is not huge a value issue.  

With the vin matching the body stamping's and the chassis modifications being correct as being the bigger deal here. (about it's heminess).  IMO those identifiers  would answer the biggest question a buyer needs to make a decision.

As for the rest of the trim and options not being documented by a tag?  ---So what--- the original engine is not their so it will never be what it once was.

A good question though is----If every original part on that car were present.  What would the lack of a fender tag have on the value?

It's a 68 - the VIN won't match the body.

Troy

[Troy]

Discussions aside, I would not let a og hemi 68-70 b body car go for less then 10k If I was the seller. Period. A 1968  hemi coronet super bee is better then a hemi RR in my eyes.
I would value this car based on what little information we have, at around 10k-15k, maybe a little more, which would be based on it's completeness and what rust issues are present. 20k is possible if it's not a turd. Tag and sheet are extremely important but if the car is very complete and original/unmolested, then the doubt of the pedigree decreases and also the importance of the missing tag/sheet as well.

I don't see how - especially going on the assumption that is has a LOT of rust. I'm going to guess that "restored" (ie all factory correct parts) this car will take $50k - if you know someone - and $70-100k+ if you don't. When finished you'll have a non-numbers, column shift auto, without documentation, in a color that isn't super desirable. My *guess* (with help from the Hagerty site) is that's it's worth $70-90k in the end. A guy could build it with nothing correct and save a bunch of money but also take a bath on the final value around $50-60k. Of course, prices are up right now and if it takes 5 years to finish there's no telling how the numbers will play out.

I love these cars and they are ridiculously rare buuuuuuut, historically, they don't bring the same money as a Charger (for instance). There are nice 383 cars selling for around the low $30k mark (a few years ago I missed one at $21k but it was a green auto). This link is a Hemi 4-speed (add 20%), with the correct parts, at a dealer (add $$$), in a rare color, with documentation (at least a GG report):
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/dodge/super-bee/1846336.html

I'm going out on a limb here and guessing those guys bought this $80k car (or are consigning it)?
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/dodge/super-bee/1248603.html

Troy

[Drache]

I don't see how - especially going on the assumption that is has a LOT of rust. I'm going to guess that "restored" (ie all factory correct parts) this car will take $50k - if you know someone - and $70-100k+ if you don't. When finished you'll have a non-numbers, column shift auto, without documentation, in a color that isn't super desirable. My *guess* (with help from the Hagerty site) is that's it's worth $70-90k in the end. A guy could build it with nothing correct and save a bunch of money but also take a bath on the final value around $50-60k. Of course, prices are up right now and if it takes 5 years to finish there's no telling how the numbers will play out.

If someone wanted to buy it as an investment then yeah, its not feasibly worth it. But if someone always wanted to say they owned a "real hemi" Super Bee then the price of restoring and eventual selling aren't that big of an issue.

I've seen more than a few chargers on this forum where the owners have spent WAY more than what they could possibly sell the car for simply because they always wanted that specific car.

[paironines]

It's still a worthy car and  I'd love to own it fender tag or not but all I'm saying is whether you are a collector like me or a flipper, the lack of fender tag changes the buy in by thousands not hundreds.

[Troy]

I don't see how - especially going on the assumption that is has a LOT of rust. I'm going to guess that "restored" (ie all factory correct parts) this car will take $50k - if you know someone - and $70-100k+ if you don't. When finished you'll have a non-numbers, column shift auto, without documentation, in a color that isn't super desirable. My *guess* (with help from the Hagerty site) is that's it's worth $70-90k in the end. A guy could build it with nothing correct and save a bunch of money but also take a bath on the final value around $50-60k. Of course, prices are up right now and if it takes 5 years to finish there's no telling how the numbers will play out.

If someone wanted to buy it as an investment then yeah, its not feasibly worth it. But if someone always wanted to say they owned a "real hemi" Super Bee then the price of restoring and eventual selling aren't that big of an issue.

I've seen more than a few chargers on this forum where the owners have spent WAY more than what they could possibly sell the car for simply because they always wanted that specific car.

Yeah, I don't disagree - but you gotta find "that guy" if you want to get $15-20k for a rusted body with a VIN. I'm one of those that has more money in *most* of my cars than they are worth, I'd love to own a real Hemi one day, and I can do a lot of work myself to save costs. But, realistically, I think I could live with a $25k 383 Bee (or a $15k Coronet) then transplant a Hemi and be on the road in a few weekends. Even if you never sell, it's a big "investment" to do it right and the guys that have that kind of cash to dump into it are also smart enough to weigh the options (see the $80k car above).

Troy

[Drache]

Yeah, I don't disagree - but you gotta find "that guy" if you want to get $15-20k for a rusted body with a VIN.

I agree with that. Personally I see it going for no more than $5000-$7000 at the most.

[69F8C500]

I believe this is the same car, I know it's an old post. My father bought it in August of 2016. I DOES have the fender tag, although rusted into 2 pieces.

[moparstuart]

I believe this is the same car, I know it's an old post. My father bought it in August of 2016. I DOES have the fender tag, although rusted into 2 pieces.

is it inside now  ?   I hope

[hemi-hampton]

I believe this is the same car, I know it's an old post. My father bought it in August of 2016. I DOES have the fender tag, although rusted into 2 pieces.

I'm guessing it's all restored & mint by now. right?    Let see a pic of it now

[69F8C500]

I believe this is the same car, I know it's an old post. My father bought it in August of 2016. I DOES have the fender tag, although rusted into 2 pieces.

is it inside now  ?   I hope

Yes, it's inside now. Still in as found condition.

[69F8C500]

I believe this is the same car, I know it's an old post. My father bought it in August of 2016. I DOES have the fender tag, although rusted into 2 pieces.

I'm guessing it's all restored & mint by now. right?    Let see a pic of it now

Nope, it's basically in as found condition, less the poop. We put it back together when we took it to MCACN in 2017 for the barn finds section. It was missing a drivers fender so we got a beat up one to match the patina. Here are some pictures of it that were taken this afternoon.

[hemi-hampton]

SO, Do you plan on Restoring it?    LEON.

[69F8C500]

SO, Do you plan on Restoring it?    LEON.

Yes, at some point. Probably in the next 5 years hopefully, Hemis aren't cheap so, saving money for that.

[426HemiChick]

Hi 69F8C500,                     05 June 2021

Hope no one minds us jumping in here. We don't understand the desire to take a rusted hulk of a car (missing an extremely expensive engine, possibly the transmission {do see a tran resting behind the car} and possibly many other missing or badly damaged/rusted components) and try to restore it. It seems to us this would be an extremely expensive and time consuming venture, unless you have deep pockets and like taking on huge projects and the satisfaction you get by accomplishing them. If that's the case, more power to you and we wish you the best of luck and success.

Since documentation for this car may be lacking, there are a couple items that you can look at that will help ID the car as a real Hemi Mopar. First off, the K-member for a Hemi car is unique. It has a skid plate in front of the oil pan, only Hemi K-members have them. K-members are easy to change so this is no guarantee it is a real Hemi car. We have a 69 1/2 Six-Pack SB with a Hemi K-Member installed, we also have the original 440 K-member.

The next more telling items, and much more difficult to fake, are the Torque boxes on the forward rear spring mounts. ONLY real Hemi cars came with them. If you look back at our original thread, there is a post we made relative to a Supposed original Hemi Daytona advertised for sale that was missing the Torque Boxes. Talked with the owner of the high end company offering the car for sale. We mentioned the missing items and the guy shot back with "Mopar quit putting them on cars after 68." At the time, we happened to have a 68 Hemi RR, 69 Hemi Daytona and had had a 70 Hemi Cuda we sold in 1975. All three had the torque boxes. In our estimation, the Daytona they had for sale was a fake Hemi Car. Don't know whatever happened to that "Daytona." Hope no one got burned by it.

There have been attempts by some unsavory individuals to try and replicate the torque boxes. If you have ever seen the genuine items and gave them close scrutiny, you should be able to spot the phonies. To the best of our knowledge, these were not parts one could easily buy from the local Mopar dealer, they are a part of the body assembly itself, not bolt on items.

Wishing you great success in accomplishing your goal.

Best Always

426 Hemi Chicks

[69F8C500]

Hi 69F8C500,                     05 June 2021

Hope no one minds us jumping in here. We don't understand the desire to take a rusted hulk of a car (missing an extremely expensive engine, possibly the transmission {do see a tran resting behind the car} and possibly many other missing or badly damaged/rusted components) and try to restore it. It seems to us this would be an extremely expensive and time consuming venture, unless you have deep pockets and like taking on huge projects and the satisfaction you get by accomplishing them. If that's the case, more power to you and we wish you the best of luck and success.

Since documentation for this car may be lacking, there are a couple items that you can look at that will help ID the car as a real Hemi Mopar. First off, the K-member for a Hemi car is unique. It has a skid plate if front of the oil pan, only Hemi K-members have them. K-members are easy to change so this is no guarantee it is a real Hemi car. We have a 69 1/2 Six-Pack SB with a Hemi K-Member installed, we also have the original 440 K-member.

The next more telling items and much more difficult to fake are the Torque boxes on the forward rear spring mounts. ONLY real Hemi cars came with them. If you look back at our original thread, there is a post we made relative to a Supposed original Hemi Daytona advertised for sale that was missing the Torque Boxes. Talked with the owner of the high end company offering the car for sale. We mentioned the missing items and the guy shot back with "Mopar quit putting them on cars after 68." At the time, we happened to have a 68 Hemi RR, 69 Hemi Daytona and had had a 70 Hemi Cuda we sold in 1975. All three had the torque boxes. In our estimation, the Daytona they had for sale was a fake Hemi Car. Don't know whatever happened to that "Daytona." Hope no one got burned by it.

There have been attempts by some unsavory individuals to try and replicate the torque boxes. If you have ever seen the genuine items and gave them close scrutiny, you should be able to spot the phonies. To the best of our knowledge, these were not parts one could easily buy from the local Mopar dealer, they are a part of the body assembly itself, not bolt on items.

Wishing you great success in accomplishing your goal.

Best Always

426 Hemi Chicks

Hi, 426 Hemi Chicks,

Our plan with the car is to do a day 2 style restoration. We would do the body of the car like it came from the factory, sunfire Yellow, black interior, black top, and white stripe. We wouldn't worry about OE correct, we want to drive it and have fun. My dads really into 68 coronets, so if he ends up restoring any of our cars, it would be that one. We have most of the sheet metal already. NOS quarters and door skins, and two 68 coronet parts cars for the rails and roof. We have already got a 69 Hemi trans for it, carbs, exhaust manifold, and valve covers.

Now onto it being a real hemi car. The torque boxes are there, and haven't been touched. When the car was stolen, the thief's robbed the driveline out of it. The Hemi was replaced with a 318 so the K member is long gone. The VIN has never been tampered with and the fender tag number matches the trunk lip and the radiator support numbers. The 323 suregrip is still there.

We do still plan on restoring it. Not here soon, but maybe in the next 10 years. We know where we can get a Hemi for it, a friend has about 40 of them and said he is willing to sell us one. Thanks for chiming in!

Seth Degenhardt

[426HemiChick]

Hi Seth,                      06 June 2021

We commend you and your Dad for undertaking a sizable project. We're sure you will succeed.

In our case, we are probably a bit older than you folks so we have to approach things differently; I Christine will be 81 in a few weeks so a project like yours would be a greater challenge than we would want to tackle at this stage. Our RR and SB have essentially been stored since they were new, the RR has 4405 and the SB has 2681 on their clocks and are rust free. The Stang has 000003.1 on its clock and will be the first of our four cars to be resurrected. Very little needs to be done; a fuel tank and pump, which we have so it should be running this year. The SB will be next then the RR.

Take care Seth, wishing you great success.

Best Always

426 Hemi Chicks