Eaton true trac sure grip replacement options

[68charger440]

Anyone have any experience with wjrwolfe rebuilding sure grips?  Their Ebay store is Mopar Madness.  I spoke with John yesterday and expained my build and he suggested I go with an Eaton TrueTrack in my original 742 case.  He said he could remachine and shim my cones that are in the 741 case that is in the car now, but with a 500" stroker he said he would not reccomend that approach.  He said he would put in a larger pinion with the Eaton and that in his opinion it would then be at least as strong as a 489.
My questions are
1. Does anyone have any experience with wjwolfe out of Eaton, Colorado?
2. Are the Eaton units good for a mostly street car with 600 hp?  It's not going to be running slicks and only going to the track once in a blue moon?
3.install a new Eaton True Trac, new 3:91 gears and a large forged pinion in my 742 case?  I want it done right not just cheap, but I don't want to waste money either.
4. Has anyone installed the Eaton True trac, new gears and the large pinion themselves? If so how hard was it?
He said he would give me something for the rebuildable 741with the cone style sure grip in it.  What is a fair price for that unit?
5. Anyone have any other options that they would suggest?
Thanks
Jim

[cdr]

DO NOT USE THE EATON TRUE TRAC 8 3/4 !!! it is junk. call & talk to Cass at Drdiff.

[cdr]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,123701.msg1538826.html#msg1538826
more info on the true junk

[seaweed]

I have installed a Eaton Truetrac in my 742 case, i did it myself but never changed the pinion only bearings and replaced the wheel bearings with the "green bearings".
I bought everything from Dr Diff and im very satisfied with evrything.
I'm running 3:23.

If i had to do it again i would buy Eaton over a Suregrip.

[seaweed]

Ops. Just saw that link!
Havent seen that before but i have had mine for 2 years now and no noise and im a pretty abusive driver.
Well, i cant rekomend this for you but so far i'm satisfied with it.

[Alaskan_TA]

Cass is the go to guy for sure, contact him & go with what he says.

[68charger440]

Well, I sent DR Diff an email so I'll see what he says.

[cdr]

Well, I sent DR Diff an email so I'll see what he says.

let us know !!!!       

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

After 3 sets of side gears that got damaged from normal driving in one of the Repro Nitro units that Cass was selling back in '09 or so ( he sent replacement gears every time supposedly "better" ones then the prior set with no questions asked)
I finally went with the more expensive Auburn Pro-Series no troubles since....

[charger Downunder]

My 92 960 Volvo has a factory Eaton automatic locking differential and its been fine, maybe this is where they should stay.

[68charger440]

Got a reply to my email to Cass at Dr Diff...  I'll give him a call. If you guys have questions you would like me to ask him by all means reply to this thread with them and I will see what answers I gan get.

Here is his reply

Cass Eslick
to me
17 minutes agoDetails
Hi Jim,

I'm currently swamped, but if you are not in a rush, I can provide a new, nodular iron 742 case with 3.55 or 3.91 gears, clutch sure-grip and forged steel 7290 U-bolt yoke for $1195 (outright).

Otherwise, see below for parts prices:

New clutch sure-grip $395
3.55 or 3.91-E ring and pinion $185
Koyo master install kit $130
7290 pinion yoke $70
TOTAL $780

Please call for more information.

Thanks,

Cass (406)883-4772 10-6 Mountain Time, M-F

[firefighter3931]

Jim,

You have a heavy car with a 500in motor making somewhere around 600ftlbs of torque. It's the weight and torque that kills rear end parts/axles. 

The "If it were mine" answer would be a Detroit locker in that 742 case with whatever gear you decide on and a set of 35 spline aftermarket axles. This will be fine for street duty and the occasional pass down the track with some sticky tires. If this car was a 4spd the obvious choice would be a Dana 

Cass can set you up with a drop in unit or the parts to build it up. 



Ron

[68charger440]

My concern with the Detroit Locker is the street manners.  Since the car is 99.9% street driven I don't want those scary moments when the locker decides to kick in or out on a turn especially in bad weather, as well as the harsh clicking and clunking when it engages.  It seems that the few B bodies that i have driven in with Detroit lockers were pretty harsh on the street; wanting to wander to one side or the other when getting on them and clunking pretty hard when engaging.  So much so that people ask what is wrong with your car.  If I wanted to race it regularly that would be a different story, but I am more wanting the feel of the stock sure grips. 
Did I just have bad experiences with the few lockers I have been in on the street? 

[firefighter3931]

I have a Detroit Locker in my Dana and love it. I hardly notice any clicking going around a corner and there is definitely no clunks or popping.    Valvoline 85/140 lube is what I use. 

Sometimes I wonder if folks that are having those issues purchased a lower grade unit ?  

A clutch style SG will break behind a 600ftlb stroker in a heavy B-Body....it's not a matter of if....it's a matter of when.  

I upgraded from a clutch style SG to the Locker in my Dana when the 572 was installed and never looked back. I can't tell the difference between the two during normal street driving. Hammering the throttle while making a corner will lock both axles so you just have to be carefull during those maneuvers. 



Ron

[68charger440]

Well, below is the last exchange I had with Cass.  It soundslike the 35 spline might not be in his bag of tricks.  Maybe I will have to go with his first suggestion and just take it easy on the car.  I.e. don't go with sticky tires and let the tire spin protect the rearend.
.
.
Jim M
to Cass
2 hours ago Details
Cass,

I got your name from the dodgecharger.com forum that I have belonged to for the past decade or so, so if you want me to save you fees from Ebay and Paypal by paying you direct I am happy to do so.  You shouldn't have to pay them for your products that I found through means other than them.  Also, all of the people on the dodgecharger.com and other Mopar forums have spoken highly of you and how you stand behind your products.  That is why I want to buy through you and not someplace else, and I am happy to wait as long as it takes to have it done right, so I would rather wait until you can verify the quality without being under the gun at all.

I will give you a call to get the details worked out, but a few of the questions I will ask you are...

I heard a few years back there were some problems with the reproduction clutch style units.  Was that true, and has the problem been corrected?

What do you think of the Eaton True trac units?

I am old and disabled now so I have to have my sons do the work for me that I used to do without a problem.  So to avoid having to bug my sons too often to pull out the chunk on a regular basis I would rather consider making any upgrades that you think I should consider now rather than later.  I won't be going to the track much any more but I will be burning the tires here and there just for fun with the grand kids etc. And maybe a run or two at the track once in a while.

I want to just be able to slap this chunk in without and setting up lash etc. and slide the axles back in, bolt up the u-Joints, fill it and go.  Is this unit completely setup and ready to bolt in and go? 

Please include in your price the friction modifyier, the u-joints that will be needed to go from your yoke down to the stock drive shaft I currently have in the car, and anything else you think I need.

I still have a 8 3/4 clutch rebuild set from years ago.  If I ever do need to rebuild this unit will the old Mopar clutch set work in there?

I'll call you later to get these questions answered and get the deal in motion, or you can call me anytime you have a free minute.

Finally Ron 'Firefighter 3931' on the Dodgecharger.com forum suggested I go with a Detroit Locker in the 742 case with 35 spline axles.  He has helped me quite a bit and has never steered me wrong, so I wanted to get your thoughts on that setup.  Here is his message to toward the bottom of this thread.  You may have to cut and paste the link below into your browser to get it to work.  Is that a setup you can do and do you think it is a good idea or not.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,124422.new.html#new



Thanks

Jim


Cass Eslick
to me
18 minutes agoDetails
Some of the old Nitro/Yukon power-locks broke the side gears because the V notches in the case were not indexed correctly.  I'm not aware of any breakage problems with my own (NEW) power-locks, however.

Some Eaton True-Tracs are noisy during deceleration due to excessive lash between the internal gears.  It seems these were sold about 3 years ago.  I haven't heard of any noise complaints lately.

Detroit Lockers are strong, but some people don't like the internal lash (sloppiness on and off the throttle).  There are no 35 spline traction differentials available for the 8.75" rearend. 

Cass

[68charger440]

Well guys... any other thoughts on this problem.  If Dr Diff can't do the 35 spline Detroit Locker, should I go with the clutch style sure grip he suggested?

[firefighter3931]

A clutch SG is pretty strong and will take some abuse but your pushing the envelope with a 500in motor. It should last for awhile as long as you don't abuse it too much at the track. With street tires it's pretty much unbreakable because you'll never dead hook it. 

If the 8.75 locker is only available with a 30 spline side gear I wonder what the axle options are ? Cass would be able to steer you in the right direction with a Strange SS or Yukon aftermarket axle. I wonder how much stronger those are than the stock axles....again Cass would have those answers. 

I'd have a close look at the stock axle splines and inspect them for signs of twisting....then decide on a course of action. 



Ron

[cdr]

save your money & get a Dana 60, that is what i am doing.

[68charger440]

Ok I took a good close look and the axles show no sign of twisting, and since I am moving more into old man cruising mode I won't be beating it like I used to so I think I will probable just go with the clutch power lok in the 742 case that Cass quoted above in this thread. 
My last question is gearing.  The 3.91 winds up pretty quick around town so I was thinking of switching to the 3.55 gears.  I won't be doing much highway driving, but the 3.91 winds up pretty good even at 55 mph... but it sure is fun getting there.  Do you guys think I will regret changing or will I not loose much off the line?

[myk]

Old man cruising mode lol.  Good luck OP.  Like Troy I went with an Auburn unit...

[cdr]

Ok I took a good close look and the axles show no sign of twisting, and since I am moving more into old man cruising mode I won't be beating it like I used to so I think I will probable just go with the clutch power lok in the 742 case that Cass quoted above in this thread. 
My last question is gearing.  The 3.91 winds up pretty quick around town so I was thinking of switching to the 3.55 gears.  I won't be doing much highway driving, but the 3.91 winds up pretty good even at 55 mph... but it sure is fun getting there.  Do you guys think I will regret changing or will I not loose much off the line?

right now I have 3.23 gears, 512 cid loves it on the street.  when i get the dana it will be 3.54 due to availability, but would prefer low 3 's, Torque does not need 3.91 gears , especially on a street car. 

[68charger440]

Ok I took a good close look and the axles show no sign of twisting, and since I am moving more into old man cruising mode I won't be beating it like I used to so I think I will probable just go with the clutch power lok in the 742 case that Cass quoted above in this thread. 
My last question is gearing.  The 3.91 winds up pretty quick around town so I was thinking of switching to the 3.55 gears.  I won't be doing much highway driving, but the 3.91 winds up pretty good even at 55 mph... but it sure is fun getting there.  Do you guys think I will regret changing or will I not loose much off the line?

right now I have 3.23 gears, 512 cid loves it on the street.  when i get the dana it will be 3.54 due to availability, but would prefer low 3 's, Torque does not need 3.91 gears , especially on a street car. 

So are you running the Treutrac with 3.23 gears in an automatic?  Will it light up the tires real easy off the line or at low speed?  My brother has 3.23 gears in his 69 383 4speed charger and it will climb forever on the high end, but off the line he looses that jump that I have with the 3.91, and his actually doesn't break the tires free for very long before hooking up even if he tried to keep them spinning.  Then again there is a whole lot of difference between his 30 over 383 and my 500" stroker and we are at roughly 5600 to 5800 feet or so in elevation.  Maybe the 3.55 is a good compromise for me.   I just don't want to loose that ability to light them up at will pretty much effortlessly.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

3.55's in mine...nice all around gear

[cdr]

Ok I took a good close look and the axles show no sign of twisting, and since I am moving more into old man cruising mode I won't be beating it like I used to so I think I will probable just go with the clutch power lok in the 742 case that Cass quoted above in this thread. 
My last question is gearing.  The 3.91 winds up pretty quick around town so I was thinking of switching to the 3.55 gears.  I won't be doing much highway driving, but the 3.91 winds up pretty good even at 55 mph... but it sure is fun getting there.  Do you guys think I will regret changing or will I not loose much off the line?

right now I have 3.23 gears, 512 cid loves it on the street.  when i get the dana it will be 3.54 due to availability, but would prefer low 3 's, Torque does not need 3.91 gears , especially on a street car. 

So are you running the Treutrac with 3.23 gears in an automatic?  Will it light up the tires real easy off the line or at low speed?  My brother has 3.23 gears in his 69 383 4speed charger and it will climb forever on the high end, but off the line he looses that jump that I have with the 3.91, and his actually doesn't break the tires free for very long before hooking up even if he tried to keep them spinning.  Then again there is a whole lot of difference between his 30 over 383 and my 500" stroker and we are at roughly 5600 to 5800 feet or so in elevation.  Maybe the 3.55 is a good compromise for me.   I just don't want to loose that ability to light them up at will pretty much effortlessly.

yes 3.23 True Junk, & also it is overdrive a518 trans, with 3.91 gears it was stupid, violent, blow the tires off, 60 mph roll & it would light them up,put 3.23 in to tame it down but it would still blow the tires off, Got some 325/50/15 drag radials on it now & it hooks good with 3.23 gears, I am at sea level , you might be better with 3.55 at 5800 feet.  mine dont care what gear it has.

[68charger440]

Ok... I ordered the new 742 case with the stronger yoke and the clutch style sure grip from Cass at Dr Diff.  I went with 3.73 gears just to get a touch more cruising speed out of it.  Now I just need to find the right wheel and tire combo.  I want the tires to be the weak link and spin rather than blow up the rear end.  
I'm thinking of the Torque thrust II 18 x 8 with 255/45/18 on front and  18 x 10 with 285/45/18 or 295/45/18 on the rear.  What do you guys think of that combo?

[myk]

What kind of tires?  How sticky?

[funknut]

Now I just need to find the right wheel and tire combo.  I want the tires to be the weak link and spin rather than blow up the rear end.  
I'm thinking of the Torque thrust II 18 x 8 with 255/45/18 on front and  18 x 10 with 285/45/18 or 295/45/18 on the rear.  What do you guys think of that combo?

I just this week got Torq Thrust II with Nitto NT555 in 295/55R18 on 18x10 rear and 255/45R18 on 18x8 front:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,124145.msg1548615.html#msg1548615

The rear has just over 1" clearance from the leaf with a 3/8" spacer. The front is going to be close on the forward fender. I'll have more pics soon.