What would you pay?

[Sugardemon]

I have perused the 38 pages from the thread "Delusional Charger Sellers" and the plethora of opinions on value.   I need opinions on value and why. 

If you were buying a fairly original 69-70 Charger RT (4 sp, non-matching numbers motor) that had nice quality interior and a decent underside but needed (1)extensive body panel/pan replacement, (2) a "good" paint job, (3) vinyl top, (4) chrome restoration/replacement, rubber seals, little stuff, etc BUT is a solid driver, what would be a fair price range?.... AND considering that I'd be paying someone else to do the work?  I'm turning 60 and have no interest in monkeying with this stuff anymore.

It'll never be a matching numbers car and I'm not looking for a rotisserie restoration, just a good looking weekend driver.

What's a fair price, considering I have to pay someone to do most of the work?

[funknut]

Hard to tell without pictures.  "Extensive body panel replacement" could mean $3k or $10k+. 

Whether you do the work or not doesn't mean a thing to the seller.  Value of the car as it sits is the same irrespective of who's doing the work. 

Pretty much everyone here will tell you to buy the most complete car you can, because you'll likely never recoup what it cost to restore.   

[1970Moparmann]

(1)extensive body panel/pan replacement, (2) a "good" paint job, (3) vinyl top, (4) chrome restoration/replacement, rubber seals, little stuff, etc BUT is a solid driver

Unfortunately your not painting a good picture with this car.   Did you check out the frame rails?    If the frame rails have to be replaced, this is going to bump up your restoration cost fairly good.

Based on what you said, if I were in your shoes, I would buy a "good" car and start driving it right away.   If it needs all the work that you describe, that could be a multiple year project.   I think you would be better off getting a "done" car.   Just my 2 cents.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

I have perused the 38 pages from the thread "Delusional Charger Sellers" and the plethora of opinions on value.   I need opinions on value and why.  

If you were buying a fairly original 69-70 Charger RT (4 sp, non-matching numbers motor) that had nice quality interior and a decent underside but needed (1)extensive body panel/pan replacement, (2) a "good" paint job, (3) vinyl top, (4) chrome restoration/replacement, rubber seals, little stuff, etc BUT is a solid driver, what would be a fair price range?.... AND considering that I'd be paying someone else to do the work?  I'm turning 60 and have no interest in monkeying with this stuff anymore.

It'll never be a matching numbers car and I'm not looking for a rotisserie restoration, just a good looking weekend driver.

What's a fair price, considering I have to pay someone to do most of the work?

If you just want to get in and drive, you are far better off paying 40-45 large up front now for a done 383 car, that is assuming that you have the funds to do so. If you buy something that needs work, you are going to get to that figure and beyond anyway. They are out there in that price range, but it seems that the real nice ones are few and far between.


If you would consider an A body Mopar, this one looks fairly clean...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plymouth-Barracuda-Formula-S-/252414779864?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ac517e1d8:g:7PIAAOSwepJXVICc&item=252414779864

[ht4spd307]

I have perused the 38 pages from the thread "Delusional Charger Sellers" and the plethora of opinions on value.   I need opinions on value and why.  

If you were buying a fairly original 69-70 Charger RT (4 sp, non-matching numbers motor) that had nice quality interior and a decent underside but needed (1)extensive body panel/pan replacement, (2) a "good" paint job, (3) vinyl top, (4) chrome restoration/replacement, rubber seals, little stuff, etc BUT is a solid driver, what would be a fair price range?.... AND considering that I'd be paying someone else to do the work?  I'm turning 60 and have no interest in monkeying with this stuff anymore.

It'll never be a matching numbers car and I'm not looking for a rotisserie restoration, just a good looking weekend driver.

What's a fair price, considering I have to pay someone to do most of the work?

how do you get an extensive panel/pan replacement car with a decent underside & good paint job   sorry for my stupidity but that wont add up in my head

[crj1968]

If you don't care about numbers- you could find a $20K plain jane driver and clone it into an RT for much less money and headache.

I paid $15K for my 70. Needs no major body work....engine and trans, etc.. were included but not installed...has a good interior, I've spent maybe another $1500 just putting it back together.
Now I'm driving it !

[Sugardemon]

 how do you get an extensive panel/pan replacement car with a decent underside & good paint job   sorry for my stupidity but that wont add up in my head
[/quote]

Sorry, I didn't really clarify.  Rails, cross membrers and floor pans are acceptable and solid.  Trunk pan and both rear quarters are rotted and need replacement, as well as front fenders.  Inner fender wells are ____???  And it doesn't have a good paint job, it would need one.

[crj1968]

You did say it had a decent underside....

So solid driver, 440 - 4 speed R/T that needs a lot of body work and all the odds and ends   

I'd say 15-20K, with planning on dropping another 10k into it. 

[Homerr]

I'd say more like $18-22k in this market.  And then there is the $30k tear it down to nothing and rebuild it farming out the paint/body motor.  Or, let's say, another $60k to have someone do everything for you.  And add a year or three.

I'd say look around for a ~$50k finished car and ante up.

Hadn't this one been converted from auto?
http://www.oldcaronline.com/1970-Dodge-Charger-Charlotte-North%20Carolina-for-sale-ID714876.htm

[Sugardemon]

I know a trustworthy paint and body man who would likely take it on as a side project for probably 10-12K labor plus parts and paint but he would have to take care of his regular repeat customers on a timely basis (of course) and work on this car in his spare time....so it would probably a 18-24 mo project. 

I hear everyone that says buy one already restored but it's not like there are hundreds out there to choose from.  Especially if you're wanting a certain color combo.

[70 sublime]

I know a trustworthy paint and body man who would likely take it on as a side project for probably 10-12K labor plus parts and paint but he would have to take care of his regular repeat customers on a timely basis (of course) and work on this car in his spare time....so it would probably a 18-24 mo project. 

I hear everyone that says buy one already restored but it's not like there are hundreds out there to choose from.  Especially if you're wanting a certain color combo.

Bad idea to take it some place as the work on it when we have nothing else to do kind of job
Have you had a car restored at this place you talk about in this manner before ??
Lots of parts will get lost and always take at least twice as long as you hope or promised it would take to get done

[crj1968]

If it's not a numbers matching car in the first place, and you just are looking for a cool driver, then you can do any color combo you like. no?   

[Mike DC]

I hear everyone that says buy one already restored but it's not like there are hundreds out there to choose from.  Especially if you're wanting a certain color combo.

Buy a 318 VIN car already restored.  Then spend even more money and repaint it & change the drivetrain as needed.  


Believe it or not, you will probably STILL come out ahead compared to a body resto of any kind.  The time delays & spiraling costs of that stuff cannot be overstated.  

[ht4spd307]

how do you get an extensive panel/pan replacement car with a decent underside & good paint job   sorry for my stupidity but that wont add up in my head

Sorry, I didn't really clarify.  Rails, cross membrers and floor pans are acceptable and solid.  Trunk pan and both rear quarters are rotted and need replacement, as well as front fenders.  Inner fender wells are ____???  And it doesn't have a good paint job, it would need one.

[/quote] no sorry my mistake i read it wrong  BUT MY ADVICE RUN

[Chargerguy74]

(1)extensive body panel/pan replacement, (2) a "good" paint job, (3) vinyl top, (4) chrome restoration/replacement, rubber seals, little stuff, etc BUT is a solid driver

Unfortunately your not painting a good picture with this car.   Did you check out the frame rails?    If the frame rails have to be replaced, this is going to bump up your restoration cost fairly good.

Based on what you said, if I were in your shoes, I would buy a "good" car and start driving it right away.   If it needs all the work that you describe, that could be a multiple year project.   I think you would be better off getting a "done" car.   Just my 2 cents.

I agree with this

[myk]

Pictures of the car, or we might as well be talking about what Scarlett Johannsen looks like naked: a total fantasy for most of us...

[Brock Lee]

I know a trustworthy paint and body man who would likely take it on as a side project for probably 10-12K labor plus parts and paint

That means it will end up being $18-20K in labor and paint. It is the nature of the body guy to shoot below the final amount. Shit, so much time will elapse by the time its done, inflation will play a role in the final price...

but he would have to take care of his regular repeat customers on a timely basis (of course) and work on this car in his spare time....so it would probably a 18-24 mo project.  

Add another 12 months on that, and if you push him to stay on that original budget, expect it to sit long periods without being touched. Chunks of years will fly by without anything being done. They work on the money coming in right now, not what they were paid for in the past or even in a distant future.

I hear everyone that says buy one already restored but it's not like there are hundreds out there to choose from.  Especially if you're wanting a certain color combo.

Yes, there are hundreds to choose from. They are out there. Bank the cash. Open a savings account with the money you have for a rot box turd right now. Rather than make payments while visiting a car you can't drive for 2-3 years, add that money to the savings account. Tweak your color combination expectations and be open to possibly painting down the road. Once you have enough cash to buy one road worthy NOW, go shopping. You will get far more for your money than pissing it away having all the body work outsourced. You will end up buying a car from a guy that did what you are thinking..he may get most of the parts and resto money back and lose what he paid for the car..plus years of wasted time waiting for the car to be done..you buy it, turn the key and enjoy for none of the hassle and a fraction of the cost.

[Chargerguy74]

Pictures of the car, or we might as well be talking about what Scarlett Johannsen looks like naked: a total fantasy for most of us...

not for me...

[myk]

Too fat?

[Chargerguy74]

LOL, no, good looking gal for sure. Saw the hacked pics way back when. She just never really did much for me.

Sorry for the derail.

[Polygon]

Buy a 318 VIN car already restored.  Then spend even more money and repaint it & change the drivetrain as needed. 

Believe it or not, you will probably STILL come out ahead compared to a body resto of any kind.  The time delays & spiraling costs of that stuff cannot be overstated.

This sold for a pretty penny, not an R/T or 4 speed, but an idea of the market. I think it was a good price.
http://carsonline-ads.com/colsite/col?use=UC3_ViewPosting&cmd=showPosting&postingID=81741

[c00nhunterjoe]

If the 1/4s and trunk are gone, i bet the frame is too. Might not be showing on the outside, but when you cut whats left of the trunk out, you will find the inner side of the rails rotted as well.

[Homerr]

Pictures of the car, or we might as well be talking about what Scarlett Johannsen looks like naked: a total fantasy for most of us...

BTW, there is this thing called the "internet".  It has nekkid pitchurs of her.

[myk]

What I mean to say is that none of us will ever able to get her naked IN PERSON; f**k the internet...

[cbrestorations]

Skimmed thru all the blah blah blah and still no pics?

[68X426]

Skimmed thru all the blah blah blah and still no pics?

Yep, no car pics and no Scarlett pics. 

[westcoastdodge]

paid 10,000 usd 

[68X426]

That floor is beautiful. 

[DixieRestoParts]

I know a trustworthy paint and body man who would likely take it on as a side project for probably 10-12K labor plus parts and paint but he would have to take care of his regular repeat customers on a timely basis (of course) and work on this car in his spare time....so it would probably a 18-24 mo project. 

I hear everyone that says buy one already restored but it's not like there are hundreds out there to choose from.  Especially if you're wanting a certain color combo.

Bad idea to take it some place as the work on it when we have nothing else to do kind of job
Have you had a car restored at this place you talk about in this manner before ??
Lots of parts will get lost and always take at least twice as long as you hope or promised it would take to get done

There are a million stories in the city. Yours will be one of them. Don't do it. I've seen this scenario fail 10 times more than work out.

Lots of great suggestions above. I like the idea of buying a nice 318 car and then adding the engine of your choice and maybe even a color change. Still cheaper in the long run and can be done in phases at your leisure while you drive and enjoy the car. Or, a nice A-body is good too.

[Mike DC]

There are a million stories in the city. Yours will be one of them. Don't do it. I've seen this scenario fail 10 times more than work out.

Lots of great suggestions above. I like the idea of buying a nice 318 car and then adding the engine of your choice and maybe even a color change. Still cheaper in the long run and can be done in phases at your leisure while you drive and enjoy the car. Or, a nice A-body is good too.

For the most part I agree.  


But -

I had suggested "buy a 318 VIN car" rather than "buy a 318 car" for a reason.  The latter is sort of like saying "find a little old lady first-owner car."  It's still good advice but it's becoming outdated advice.  These days most of the nice surviving 318 cars have already gotten a hi-po drivetrain swapped into them.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

That floor is beautiful. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s13X66BFd8

[ht4spd307]

That floor is beautiful. 

F()cken GOLD





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s13X66BFd8

[Charger-Bodie]

If the 1/4s and trunk are gone, i bet the frame is too. Might not be showing on the outside, but when you cut whats left of the trunk out, you will find the inner side of the rails rotted as well.

Since when did a car that needs quarters automatically need rails. What a derogatory statement based on nothing.

[c00nhunterjoe]

If the 1/4s and trunk are gone, i bet the frame is too. Might not be showing on the outside, but when you cut whats left of the trunk out, you will find the inner side of the rails rotted as well.

Since when did a car that needs quarters automatically need rails. What a derogatory statement based on nothing.

He said 1/4s and trunk floor were gone. It was merely a suggestion that you inspect it yourself rather then take the sellers word for it that "it has a solid frame" that we see posted all the time.

[Brock Lee]

Yeah, we can't see the rot, so it is impossible to say. Though typically trunk pans rot due to that foam mat between them and the gas tank and quarters rot in the wheel wells, while rails stay fairly solid.

[Dreamcar]

If the 1/4s and trunk are gone, i bet the frame is too. Might not be showing on the outside, but when you cut whats left of the trunk out, you will find the inner side of the rails rotted as well.

This. The more I dug into mine, the more I found that I couldn't see from the outside.

[Sugardemon]

Kind of a bummer.  I was hoping for a more positive response towards a project but I appreciate everyones' honesty.... and I totally understand why.  I have had MANY projects that turned out WAY more expensive and complicated than I originally thought.  If I could be into it for $40-45k at the end, I'd be cool with that.

I intentionally didn't post pics of the car to protect the seller.  He seems like an honest person and I wouldn't feel right having him slammed in the forum or criticized on asking price.  He has a bad azz lookin' car, though.  His interior looks identical to mine back in 72.

Alas, I think my original Charger R/T has probably been converted into ten thousand steel cans full of Del Monte Green Beans by now... so my hunt continues.

[Charger-Bodie]

Theres one on ebay. Is that the one you were considering? Because its mine and I am open to some negotiation.

[fastmark]

Here's my opinion. Remember, in the long run, it is still my opinion. I saw a fat chick at the store today in Yoga pants. I'm sure that HER OPINION was that she looked good. MY OPINION  was that she did NOT!!!. Ok, I assume you are looking for a exact year, color and R/T AND a 4 speed to replace the one you formerly owned. So you are looking for the proverbial "needle in a haystack" Charger. This will be hard to find. I'm not a clone type of guy. These cars can be an investment or a money pit. You will get SOME of your money back when you sell or maybe even make money it you are smart and follow the past examples of sales. The vast majority of things you spend money on in life, you loose money on. Ask me about weddings!!! And my daughter was frugal. So, if you enjoy it for awhile and get some back, your golden. I don't buy or try to fix rusty cars. I live in Texas where cars are few but they are hardly ever rusty. I would never consider a car that needed a complete back half or possibly frame rails. After you see enough of the cars exposed , you are amazed that they have survive 40 plus year. The factory did not put much effort into rust prevention. A good interior is not much in my books either because most of the interior stinks and needs to be redone anyway. However, these cars are getting so hard to find as projects, fixing rusty ones is almost the only option. Good body men are not cheap and I hope your guy is good with rusty cars. If you take all the metal off, it has to be installed correctly or you will have problems galore. Me, I always pony up and buy good solid rust free cars and pay more than most would consider the going rate. I paid $2200 for a Superbird that everyone in Houston past on in 83. I think I can get my money back on it.  These cars have not only held there value, they have inflated.A little more recent in 2008, I bought a one owner, 100% rust free, 70 Charger R/T auto, white with a perfect green interior for $13,000. The motor had sat in the guys garage for 21 years with the carb off so the motor stuck.It will make money today. You are talking about the most iconic muscle car of all time.   That is saying a lot for me as I have always been an ebody man. Chargers are the top of the heap. I don't think it is going away any time soon. I just sold a 69 R/T to a 35 year old. He has wanted one since he was a kid. I understand that you are getting older, I'm 59. I still love to tinker with the cars. I have a nice big shop, though.
I know I have rambled on here, but I guess my final thought is this. If you really want a particular car (70 R/T 4 speed  in the correct color), your choices are this. 1.Build the rusty car and spend lots of money and time and when you sell you will get most of your money back. Time will be the killer here. 2.Build the clone and drive it as you work on it. If you have to paint it anyway, that may be a game changer. When you sell, get ready to take it in the shorts. 3. Look for a done car, pay what the market dictates  and hope you buy a car that is done very well. Most of the cars out there that are a really good deal, have some flaws that hold them back. choose wisely. When you sell, you should make a little. 4. Look for a better starting point that is not as rusty. You will pay more but your body man will love you for it and you will be driving it sooner.You may have more time and money in it than the current market but you will know what you have instead of taking some else word  for it. They are out there. I just bought one. It's not a gold 70 R/T 4 speed or you would be in luck. In the end, with me doing the assembly, I could be in for $50K when done. Good luck on your search.

[Mopar Nut]

Here's a deal!

[Sugardemon]

Theres one on ebay. Is that the one you were considering? Because its mine and I am open to some negotiation.

Yeah, it was yours, Brian.  If I was going to do the work myself and if i was close enough to inspect the car, we may have been able to work something out. But at my age, I don't want to spend the time or energy personally putting it into a nice driver condition and to pay someone to do the work really wouldn't make it cost effective.