Fitech problems

[69wannabe]

I am thinking the same about the FCC. Was a good idea it seemed when I first saw it but as of now i'm thinking it's not. It was really acting weird all the way home from town which is about a 25 min drive and I was wondering if we would make it home but we did so at least we didn't have to call for a ride. Another thing to consider on these conversions is your charging system, you really need a charging system up around 100 amps. I am running a 75 amp alternator and with the efi and the lights all on the voltage pulls down more that I think it should. I haven't gave up completely on the efi conversion but the simplicity of the car with the carb on there makes me less nervous to drive it without fear of a failure. The response was better and the cold start was ok but it really hasn't been cold since it went on there so I really am not that sure about that. It idled good but the holley idles good too and in warm weather the holley will start up and idle without any problems too and one of the issues I was having with the carb was actually my fault. The primary pump squirter was loose, I had swapped up to a larger size and I didn't get the retaining screw started straight and I thought it was tight and it wasn't. I had decided to remove the choke flap since I never use a choke on a holley and after I did that I had alot better view of the pump squirter and it was wobbling. I removed it and had to pull the front bowl and blow some of the threads that had kinda messed up when I screwed the retaining screw in crooked and after removing the choke flap it made it easy to get it put in straight and it snugged down good. I think some of the threads that peeled off had the weight stuck and wouldn't let any fuel come up through the pump squirter and that's where alot of my carb issues were coming from. I removed both front and rear bowls and metering block and checked and blew them out good and put it all back together and it revs pretty dang good now. I know i'm backpeddling and it's not the first time I have spent to try something and after all just wasn't satisfied and went back to the more simple solution. That's part of having these old car's and experimenting with them to see what we like or don't like.

[flyinlow]

If I was working on a 2nd gen, chevelle  ,Camaro, Mustang, etc. I could go buy an EFI tank. I am working on a 3rd gen. So this means cutting a hole in my tank and installing a pump. No leaks with a full tank? . Is this a dependable choice? Can I drive with a 1/4 tank and accelerate hard or go around a corner fast without stalling? I thought the Fuel Center would give me a reservoir of fuel to cover short term cavitation's. Also, on road trips you can take a carb with you as a back up since you still have an engine driven pump. I guess I could carry a regulator an use the carb with the EFI pump in the tank. I know the in tank pump is way modern cars do it, but I do not make a million cars a year and have hundred  engineers at my disposal for a knowledge base. So I just keep experimenting on my own. Edelbrock makes a similar fuel pump in a can system so I was a little more comfortable with my choice with them blessing the concept..

[myk]

They claim it will support that kind of HP, but it's simply not true.  Not with a BB type motor.  We run EZ-EFI and ran into the same situation.  Bottom end feels good, along with many other aspects tuning, but we lost some speed on the top end.  It was falling on its face at around 120mph on long straightaways.  We are making close to 600hp.  So switched to Multi-port and went to this throttle body.  http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/4-barrel-throttle-body-high-flow-4150-flows-1375-cfm-includes-tps-iac-fastenershtml/ .  Now it pulls all day long, no lags, stumbles, etc.

If you are running mid 12's, these off the shelf set-ups are simply not enough flow.   

Something to consider, for sure...

[Derwud]

I think we have hit on all 3, Fuel supply (Tank, lines and pump set-up for 400ish HP), Charging system (Marginal in the 70's), and Air Flow (950 CFM is great for around town, but if you are TOP end power kinda guy, falls a little short)

So I have a 100 Amp Alternator (Might need bigger), Tanks inc Tank and pump new 3/8's lines (Feed and return). I am going to start with a FiTech and then build a Sequential system as I can.

[68CoronetRT]

Happy to report the first cruise of the season is down! 95 degrees out and zero start issues, zero running issues. Ran the car about 100 miles yesterday and its just running so much better!

I did upgrade the wiring to bypass the amp meter and added a 65 amp alternator. Seems to be alot happier.

[lukedukem]

Happy to report the first cruise of the season is down! 95 degrees out and zero start issues, zero running issues. Ran the car about 100 miles yesterday and its just running so much better!

I did upgrade the wiring to bypass the amp meter and added a 65 amp alternator. Seems to be alot happier.

Wow, that's great. and you didn't use the command center, correct. how is yours set up?

Luke

[flyinlow]

Tested the stock fuel delivery system last weekend. Installed a tee between the engine driven pump and the Fuel command center with a cooper line running to a gauge tie wrapped to the wiper blade.

7-8 psi at idle. About 6psi cruising.  Under full throttle drops to about 2psi briefly then maintains about 4psi thru first and second to 6000rpm . This is a Carter street pump drawing thru a 3/8 aluminum line. Half full tank.

Not sure if this is enough? May still pull the tank and look at the sock.

[Derwud]

Tested the stock fuel delivery system last weekend. Installed a tee between the engine driven pump and the Fuel command center with a cooper line running to a gauge tie wrapped to the wiper blade.

7-8 psi at idle. About 6psi cruising.  Under full throttle drops to about 2psi briefly then maintains about 4psi thru first and second to 6000rpm . This is a Carter street pump drawing thru a 3/8 aluminum line. Half full tank.

Not sure if this is enough? May still pull the tank and look at the sock.

That drop under full load would have me concerned.. No way to check Volume either, which is most important..

[1974dodgecharger]

wow, seems fitech is having lots of issues.....I was so anxious to get one and praised how cheap it was to get a EFI kit installed and off and running, but it does not seem that way now...

[myk]

Tested the stock fuel delivery system last weekend. Installed a tee between the engine driven pump and the Fuel command center with a cooper line running to a gauge tie wrapped to the wiper blade.

7-8 psi at idle. About 6psi cruising.  Under full throttle drops to about 2psi briefly then maintains about 4psi thru first and second to 6000rpm . This is a Carter street pump drawing thru a 3/8 aluminum line. Half full tank.

Not sure if this is enough? May still pull the tank and look at the sock.

That drop under full load would have me concerned.. No way to check Volume either, which is most important..

2psi didn't work for my carb, I don't think EFI would be OK with it either...

[firefighter3931]

Tested the stock fuel delivery system last weekend. Installed a tee between the engine driven pump and the Fuel command center with a cooper line running to a gauge tie wrapped to the wiper blade.

7-8 psi at idle. About 6psi cruising.  Under full throttle drops to about 2psi briefly then maintains about 4psi thru first and second to 6000rpm . This is a Carter street pump drawing thru a 3/8 aluminum line. Half full tank.

Not sure if this is enough? May still pull the tank and look at the sock.

How much fuel does the "command center" hold ? It's interesting that the fuel pressure is dropping (rapidly) under hard acceleration with a front reservoir in place. 

The mechanical pump is having a difficult time keeping up and typically those Carter HP pumps work great on carbureted applications making very good power. 

Did you look at the fuel pressure at the FI inlet ? Just wondering if there was a drop in pressure (at the throttle body) that corresponds with the drop in pressure at the intake side of the command center ?



Ron

[igozumn]

wow, seems fitech is having lots of issues.....I was so anxious to get one and praised how cheap it was to get a EFI kit installed and off and running, but it does not seem that way now...

Now that they have hundreds, if not a thousand or more units out in public, you'll start to see more issues come up.  That being said......


I have 560 miles on mine.  Is it perfect?  No.  The exhaust smell is gone and that alone is worth whatever it cost.  Sold my old carb a month ago.  Never going back.

[cdr]

Tested the stock fuel delivery system last weekend. Installed a tee between the engine driven pump and the Fuel command center with a cooper line running to a gauge tie wrapped to the wiper blade.

7-8 psi at idle. About 6psi cruising.  Under full throttle drops to about 2psi briefly then maintains about 4psi thru first and second to 6000rpm . This is a Carter street pump drawing thru a 3/8 aluminum line. Half full tank.

Not sure if this is enough? May still pull the tank and look at the sock.

the stock pump just has to keep the bucket full [command center]  if it has any pressure,, that means the stock pump is flowing plenty to keep the bucket full. 

[flyinlow]

Tested the stock fuel delivery system last weekend. Installed a tee between the engine driven pump and the Fuel command center with a cooper line running to a gauge tie wrapped to the wiper blade.

7-8 psi at idle. About 6psi cruising.  Under full throttle drops to about 2psi briefly then maintains about 4psi thru first and second to 6000rpm . This is a Carter street pump drawing thru a 3/8 aluminum line. Half full tank.

Not sure if this is enough? May still pull the tank and look at the sock.

How much fuel does the "command center" hold ? It's interesting that the fuel pressure is dropping (rapidly) under hard acceleration with a front reservoir in place. 

The mechanical pump is having a difficult time keeping up and typically those Carter HP pumps work great on carbureted applications making very good power. 

Did you look at the fuel pressure at the FI inlet ? Just wondering if there was a drop in pressure (at the throttle body) that corresponds with the drop in pressure at the intake side of the command center ?



Ron

I think I read the FCC holds about 1.5 quarts.  Depending on how high the float level in the can is and how much room the pump takes up.

There is a low and high pressure gauge in the FCC. Shows a fluctuating reading around 7-8 psi on the engine  driven pump inlet and right on 58 psi high pressure side to the throttle body. This is at idle with me standing in front of the car with the hood open. I have not checked the high side under load. Will need a different gauge and an AN  tee.

The hand held shows 135-140 liters per hour fuel flow at WOT. This was a quick glance while driving. I need to do some  data logging. Would like to record A/F ratio and .injector duty cycle over a 15 second WOT application. I bought a card reader and a cable to try this. Maybe next weekend.

I did drive the car about 150 miles this last weekend  and it ran well, no "vapor lock" issues.     Maybe it's learning? No 1/4 miles though.

The Carter pump is 8 years old with about 40K. miles on it. Maybe the valves are getting tired. I wanted to do a carb baseline before the switch, it has been  2 years since I went to the track before this recent time there, but did not get the chance.

[JR]

I have the 600hp power adder Fitech and a tanks inc tank/650hp walbro pump combo. Been running it since december. No problems at all with mine. (Aside from an installation error I made with the tanksinc rollover vent valve. Totally my fault.)


I will say, ive never been fond of the idea behind the Fuel Control Center though. I highly doubt Fitech reccomends it because it works better than a dedicated baffled tank/pump combo. Id wager its more to do with $$$.

Just my opinion here: it seems with the FCC you have many more points of possible failure, twice the opportunity for vapor lock, twice as likely that one of the two required fuel pumps will fail and leave you stranded, this huge canister taking up valuable space in a cramped engine bay, soaking up heat while doing so, etc...

I think the FCC should be left to pickup truck guys, or maybe guys with oddball classic cars that will never have a dedicated efi tank mass produced for them. The tanksinc setup for a 2nd gen was only 150 or so more than the FCC.

I highly suspect that a cramped charger engine bay, with a big block making a TON of heat, will gradually cook the fuel in the FCC if you sit idle long enough. EFI cars can suffer from vapor lock like symptoms from hot fuel too, it just wont be as dramatic as a carb'd vehicle. With a proper fuel tank in the factory location, at least the tank itself isnt being cooked by radiant heat.

My .02.

[toocheaptosmoke]

Just fired up my Fitech last night, so far so good.   Although, the exhaust note is quieter at idle than it used to be.     

[Challenger340]

Dunno if this is related or not ? anyways, here goes.

We've done some testing on "stock" mechanical fuel pumps of late, meaning the "stock application" cheaper offerings from Carter, Airtex, Spectra..... ALL of which are made in Mexico....... with indeed some of the Airtex(NAPA) and Spectra offerings being so IDENTICAL, right down to casting flashes that we believe it's the same plant manufacturing.
Anyways,
and well, long story short.....
we believe there is a temperature related problem with the internal valving material being used, that causes decreased functional vacuum and fuel pressure as operating temps increase.

The worst case we have tested(NAPA/Airtex), we could actually watch the clear fuel filter gradually drop off in level as the operating temp of the pump increased...... then.... as we cooled it with a Garden Hose while still running, then again watch the fuel filter re-fill !
We replaced that one with a Spectra(identical), only to have the guy come back a month later with the same problem...
wherein,
we could watch same symptoms ALL OVER AGAIN..... with the garden hose cooling again as the cure !

Just sayín.... related to the F.I. Tech if the "stock" Mech Fuel Pump is supplying ?
You may wish to test the efficiency of the stock pump at operating temps ? because we at least..... are convinced whatever valving material is being used in the stock application Mexican Pumps from many suppliers is defective with reduced efficiency at higher temps !

[General_01]

Right now I am running the FCC and filling it with an electric fuel pump and running the vent line back to the tank through the stock return line that goes to the chamber above the drivers side rear wheel and that has the 4 vent lines from there run to the tank(71 Charger Superbee). I have been having vapor lock type issues with it. I actually took the vent hose off the FCC when it stalled last time and fuel was coming out the vent fitting on the FCC, basically plugging the vent hose with fuel.

This weekend I am going to replace the 5/16 sending unit in my tank and replace it with a 3/8 sending unit with the return nipple on the sending unit. I am then going to run new hose to the FCC and get rid of the 5/16 fuel line and run the vent hose back to the nipple on the sending unit. I am not hopeful that this will solve the problem because it doesn't matter what size your return line is, if it gets plugged with fuel it doesn't vent. If it still occurs, I am going to put the inline pump I have for efi in and go that route.

I will let you all know how it goes when I am done.

[flyinlow]

The pump is a Carter HP street/strip, from Jegs about eight years ago. I thought it was USA. About 8psi new ran a regulator to keep the TQ and Eddy carbs from flooding.  Good info on the temp issue.

I really need a vacuum gauge on the tank to pump line, a low pressure gauge between the pump and FCC and a HP gauge by the throttle body. I am going to run out of space on the wiper blade.

[68CoronetRT]

You can also run just a holley blue pump off the frame rail if you want to ditch the FCC.

[flyinlow]

Tested the stock fuel delivery system last weekend. Installed a tee between the engine driven pump and the Fuel command center with a cooper line running to a gauge tie wrapped to the wiper blade.

7-8 psi at idle. About 6psi cruising.  Under full throttle drops to about 2psi briefly then maintains about 4psi thru first and second to 6000rpm . This is a Carter street pump drawing thru a 3/8 aluminum line. Half full tank.

Not sure if this is enough? May still pull the tank and look at the sock.

the stock pump just has to keep the bucket full [command center]  if it has any pressure,, that means the stock pump is flowing plenty to keep the bucket full. 

Yea, that makes sense. I guess the more important  question is whether  the FCC pump maintaining 58psi to the injectors.

[General_01]

I changed the sending unit to the 3/8 unit. I did not run new line all the way to the FCC, just to the 8 psi electric pump. I ran 5/16 fuel hose from the FCC vent fitting back to the return nipple on the sending unit.

Also, I saw someone had posted about the Fuel Pump Pulse Width Modulation and that someone at Fitech had told them to change it. I checked there site and they actually have it up in the Tech section that you should do this with the FCC because the PWM for the fuel pump in the FCC is set for a frame mounted fuel pump. It needs to be set to 40. It is about 75 when you get it from them.

I took the car for a drive today. Drove around for about 20 minutes and no issues. Longest drive I have taken in the car without stalling since installing the efi. I also shut it down and restarted the car warm when I got back and it started right up again.

Will try and do a longer run next weekend if I can get my cousin to cruise with me in his car.