Who can recommend an electric cooling fan for 440 w A/C? (New fan running.)

[b5blue]

I need a recommendation for a real good working electric fan setup for my 70 Charger.  

[crj1968]

I bought this radiator (without the fans).  Might be worth a look

[b5blue]

I forgot to mention I've a very nice Modine brass 26" 3 row in there already. 

[b5blue]

Well I used "JET.com" and ordered a SPAL 30102052. Dual 11" fans in a shroud for getting 2720cfm. With the 15NOW discount 189.22 no tax or shipping. This should work, single fans were only getting me up to the 2Kcfm and costing over 125.00 for brand name quality.
http://www.jegs.com/i/SPAL/063/30102052/10002/-1?CAWELAID=230006180000986516&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15769068431&CATCI=aud-194567929031:pla-190696241831&gclid=CNaQqf_j2swCFUQbgQodC1kOAg

[myk]

I hope it's enough fan for your application...

[b5blue]

Thanks....me too! 20 bucks more for a thermal switch and 18 for two proper Spal connectors. I've bunches of extra 40amp relays. 

[oldcarnut]

How many amps is it gonna draw?  I didn't see anything on the link mentioning it?

[b5blue]

Looks to be 36 at start up and 22 run from reading up online. My Denso can output 55-60 at idle. My 8ga parallel output wire is setup, I'll have the thermal switch turn on a pair of fused 40amp relays. 

[firefighter3931]

Hi Neal,

I run this fan on my car with the big stroker and it works great. I set it up as a pusher due to clearance issues in the engine bay with aftermarket pullies. I recommended the same fan to Steve (Charger4404spd) who has a 500in stroker with an 871 Roots blower on his car and it's been working great so far. 

http://www.rainbowproductsonline.com/shroud-fan-assembly/cf-item20017-dual-cage.php

Mine is set up with a thermostatic switch that kicks on at 175*F and that fan moves some serious air ; 3200cfm worth ! A few years back I was racing and sitting in the lanes and looked at the temp guage which was at 225* and panic set in  I then realized I had forgot to hit the fan toggle switch !  Once the fan engaged it cooled back down to 180* in less than 60 seconds. That cemented it for me....I knew then that this was a really nice fan 

If for some reason the setup you purchased doesn't work out there's allways this option to consider. 


Ron


Ps. I have a couple of buddies running this same fan on their pro-charged street/strip cars with great success

[b5blue]

Thanks Ron! Any of the cars mentioned run A/C? I was trying to figure best way to get enough flow to pull through the condenser. This box affair should pull air through 90% of condenser/radiator. 

[firefighter3931]

None of these cars runs A/C but one of the pro-charged cars has an intercooler & trans cooler in front of the rad

His is set up as a puller   


Ron

[rebby]

I'm running a pair of Maradyne M122k fans.

http://www.maradynehp.com/m122k.html
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mar-m122k

Total maximum air flow of roughly 3,000 CFM with a current draw of about 27 amps. I have each fan wired into it's own dedicated 30a relay with a 15a fuse on the hot wire from the battery. Relays are triggered via an ignition hot and various ground inputs. So far it's working very well.

[b5blue]

Thanks for the input! 

[b5blue]

Well the Spal set is just too darn big!    The housing has a slight warp and fitment so tight buy the time I beefed up mounting a fan is to close to the A/C belt. What a shame...it's a very well built set. Back to the drawing board!

[cdr]

is there no room for a mechanical fan ?

[b5blue]

I can't figure out what part number and combo that would be? Fan/spacer/shroud info is all over the place! 

[cdr]

I can't figure out what part number and combo that would be? Fan/spacer/shroud info is all over the place! 

fan # 1818 Flex-a-lite
looking for the correct space, looks like you need one about 1 3/4 thick to clear the compressor, will get back to you after i find the #

[cdr]

14556 flexilite is 2in thick, might be to close to radiator , might not, they make a 1 in spacer.


here is a 1.5 thick , should work but you dont know till you try.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-31515/overview/


I just measured mine, looks like the 2in would work, might  have to pull radiator to install fan.


order both they are not a lot of money.

[b5blue]

Thanks, I removed something very similar, the blades are into the compressor. (What started this whole mess!) I have 4" between water pump pulley and radiator. The compressor clutch invades part of that space above the pump though. It's tricky filling that gap just right.    I may try your idea anyway. 
  I tried to call Ron's recommended supplier for a single 17" electric fan but I think they are closed weekends. 

[cdr]

we both live in a VERY hot area, I dont know if a elect fan is gonna work.

[b5blue]

I'm wondering if the 1818 fan might be made different, not as far swept to the back? 

[Charger4404spd]

Hi Neal,

I run this fan on my car with the big stroker and it works great. I set it up as a pusher due to clearance issues in the engine bay with aftermarket pullies. I recommended the same fan to Steve (Charger4404spd) who has a 500in stroker with an 871 Roots blower on his car and it's been working great so far. 

http://www.rainbowproductsonline.com/shroud-fan-assembly/cf-item20017-dual-cage.php

Mine is set up with a thermostatic switch that kicks on at 175*F and that fan moves some serious air ; 3200cfm worth ! A few years back I was racing and sitting in the lanes and looked at the temp guage which was at 225* and panic set in  I then realized I had forgot to hit the fan toggle switch !  Once the fan engaged it cooled back down to 180* in less than 60 seconds. That cemented it for me....I knew then that this was a really nice fan 

If for some reason the setup you purchased doesn't work out there's allways this option to consider. 


Ron


Ps. I have a couple of buddies running this same fan on their pro-charged street/strip cars with great success

Running this fan (with a pwm controller) on my blower motor with a 2 core aluminum radiator. Has never got over 185.

[myk]

Hi Neal,

I run this fan on my car with the big stroker and it works great. I set it up as a pusher due to clearance issues in the engine bay with aftermarket pullies. I recommended the same fan to Steve (Charger4404spd) who has a 500in stroker with an 871 Roots blower on his car and it's been working great so far. 

http://www.rainbowproductsonline.com/shroud-fan-assembly/cf-item20017-dual-cage.php

Mine is set up with a thermostatic switch that kicks on at 175*F and that fan moves some serious air ; 3200cfm worth ! A few years back I was racing and sitting in the lanes and looked at the temp guage which was at 225* and panic set in  I then realized I had forgot to hit the fan toggle switch !  Once the fan engaged it cooled back down to 180* in less than 60 seconds. That cemented it for me....I knew then that this was a really nice fan 

If for some reason the setup you purchased doesn't work out there's allways this option to consider. 


Ron


Ps. I have a couple of buddies running this same fan on their pro-charged street/strip cars with great success

Running this fan (with a pwm controller) on my blower motor with a 2 core aluminum radiator. Has never got over 185.

How do you have your fan mounted?  Did you make brackets?  Is the fan thermostatically controlled or just toggled?

[Charger4404spd]

Mase some L brackets and mounted to upper and lower radiator support. Yes it is on a thermostat. The pwm controller I use runs the fan at 60% until it see the need to increase speed. I dont think it has ever hit 100%. I use a high flow pump and thermostat too, not sure how much that helps.

[b5blue]

Mike at  Rainbow called me back. His 17" fan is 2 speed using two 12V+ and one ground. This explained the higher CFM rates. (2600/3300) Fed through a pair of 40amp relays he said be expecting 50amp total on high. 

[myk]

Mike at  Rainbow called me back. His 17" fan is 2 speed using two 12V+ and one ground. This explained the higher CFM rates. (2600/3300) Fed through a pair of 40amp relays he said be expecting 50amp total on high. 

That's a hungry fan.  I think I'm running a 90 amp alt; how does one determine the amp potential of an alt?

[b5blue]

  Well in my case "at idle output" was (60amp) what had me pick my Denso, not total output. (120amp) So I selected my Alt. (years ago.) to handle this type situation.
  The 50amp draw is most likely as the fan speeds up, at speed the draw should be about half. (or less) I've no clue how you'd test your output at idle. The condition of your harnesses and Alt. along with any changes or problems will greatly effect that number. (Even idle speed RPM) 
  For me I spent hours looking at fans online. Trained in electrics I knew a fan rated at 1500cfm that draws 12amp was a lie. That fan's real output was most likely 900cfm at best.

[myk]

Yeah you're right.  When the fans initially kick in is where you see the sudden draw.  This goes for modern cars as well, I see it all the time.  Then the fans get going and the electrical system recovers...

[b5blue]

Okay ordered the 17" fan from Mike @ Rainbow. Thanks Ron! 

[firefighter3931]

Coooool 

I'm sure that one will get the job done 

I have the two hot wires tied together so it's full bore when the fans kick on ! 

Using a tough stuff 100A alternator and no problems with charging but my idle is higher than most (1100 rpm) which probably helps.

Here is the controller I'm using :

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/der-16749/overview/

I have the on/off set at 175*F and it is adjustable. Works like a charm with the Rainbow fan 



Ron

[rebby]

Mase some L brackets and mounted to upper and lower radiator support. Yes it is on a thermostat. The pwm controller I use runs the fan at 60% until it see the need to increase speed. I dont think it has ever hit 100%. I use a high flow pump and thermostat too, not sure how much that helps.

What PWM controller are you using? I'm strongly considering making the leap to PWM.

[Charger4404spd]

Mase some L brackets and mounted to upper and lower radiator support. Yes it is on a thermostat. The pwm controller I use runs the fan at 60% until it see the need to increase speed. I dont think it has ever hit 100%. I use a high flow pump and thermostat too, not sure how much that helps.

What PWM controller are you using? I'm strongly considering making the leap to PWM.

So far it has worked flawless.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hda-3655

[rebby]

Mase some L brackets and mounted to upper and lower radiator support. Yes it is on a thermostat. The pwm controller I use runs the fan at 60% until it see the need to increase speed. I dont think it has ever hit 100%. I use a high flow pump and thermostat too, not sure how much that helps.

What PWM controller are you using? I'm strongly considering making the leap to PWM.

So far it has worked flawless.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hda-3655

I've been looking at that one as well as the Derale 16795. I've been leaning toward the Derale mainly because of the additional amp capacity. My fans are rated to pull 27a when running at full speed which is getting pretty close to the top of the range for the Hayden.

What type of temperature probe does the Hayden use? The Derale uses a dry probe that gets inserted into the radiator which I'm not a fan of. I'd rather run a wet probe.

[Charger4404spd]

The Hayden comes with a wet and a dry one. I prefer the wet one.

[rebby]

The Hayden comes with a wet and a dry one. I prefer the wet one.

I just got off the phone with Derale and they said that they could send me a wet one as well. That might be my winning choice then just based on the additional amperage capacity.

[b5blue]

Guys I'm using an 18.00 dry probe thermal switch to turn on a pair 40 amp relays. (One for each winding of the fan.) Your feeding the fan through your controller? (No relay?)

[rebby]

Guys I'm using an 18.00 dry probe thermal switch to turn on a pair 40 amp relays. (One for each winding of the fan.) Your feeding the fan through your controller? (No relay?)

The controller basically serves as the relay, internally. You connect the controller directly to the battery, both positive and negative. The fans are then powered up based on a number of variables (heat, A/C status, hard switch, vehicle speed, etc - depending on the controller). The PWM controls the actual fan speed which is what I'm after. With the system that I have in place now, like yours, the fans are either on or off (a pair of relays power the fans based on a number of switch inputs).

[b5blue]

  Powering for me with factory wiring, will be off ALT. output. My added 8ga. ("Fleet upgrade") will feed a small distribution fuse block so each fan relay and A/C has it's own under hood fuse. (The 8ga. has it's own 60amp fuse.)
  This keeps the A/C and fan current draw off the new stock harness/bulkhead/dash. I also control ignition and choke by tapping the ALT. main supply under the hood (Black wire off ALT.) using 2 relays controlled by ignition start/run that are tied together at the column switch (My Charger is a 70.) connector.
  By feeding off the ALT. output I put no demand on the battery that would require recharge to run through the harness's, gauge and bulkhead's connections. This leaves wiper/lights as the only large draw through/at the dash. As the 8ga. also runs to the car side Alt. gauge stud it sisters the factory harness/bulkhead so current can flow back a few inches to the factory main splice to help carry any loads.     

[c00nhunterjoe]

I can't figure out what part number and combo that would be? Fan/spacer/shroud info is all over the place! 

fan # 1818 Flex-a-lite
looking for the correct space, looks like you need one about 1 3/4 thick to clear the compressor, will get back to you after i find the #

X2. This is on my car with stock radiator and shroud. Idled at wildwood on the boardwalk for over an hour in line to exit in over 100° temp and water never went over 190 while countless other cars were being pushed to the side boiling over.

[b5blue]

We might think of making a data base on cooling combos that work? 

[b5blue]

  New fan is here, very impressed! Well made compact package. I'll post up pics soon, still thinking of best way to mount. Engineered to be a push or pull just by mounting in front or rear of radiator by how housing is made. (Clever designing.) Link to spec and manufacturer:
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/files/transfer/technical/doc/17inchslimlinefan.pdf
http://www.tripacfans.com/index.html

[b5blue]

  Okay I've figured out how to have this fan run on low anytime the A/C is on and still have the fan thermal controller kick in if engine temp reaches 180*. I've wired low speed relay with a diode fed by both A/C on and the controller. High relay operates operates just from the temp controller but because it is wired to both relays the fan comes on low and high if needed when the A/C is off. (Both low and high feeds need 12V to get high as this fan has 2 wires.)

[John_Kunkel]

OK, I'm thoroughly confused. b5blue orders a 17" fan from Rainbow Products that the original link says puts out 2500 and 3200 CFM, the one he gets is a Tripac 14-SL17R9 which the maker's own data sheet says puts out quite a bit less at 1800 and 2100 CFM. Which number to believe?

http://www.tripacintl.com/Tripac_Performance_PDF/Slimline_17_drawing.pdf  

[b5blue]

  You can be more confused than I am John.....after weeks of reading up on this crap and seeing ratings all over the map I went by 2 things, recommendation by Ron and the fact that the amp draw warrants power.
  Still waiting for electrical parts to have done I'll test in 2 stages. First just drive the car without the A/C running (Not even charging the system yet.) to see how the car likes having this fan with the condenser in front of the radiator under different conditions. If that's okay I'll charge the system and test with A/C running.
  I talked this all over with Mike, he was certain this should perform as expected. Getting electrics built to handle load ratings has turned a bit problematic. The gauge of the wires for my relay bases and some supplied connectors will be changed out to 10/12ga. to avoid any power choke points. (I've also reduced the distance of the runs to minimum.) If this can't handle it the backup plan is to fit a solid mount fan to the water pump and move the fan out front as a pusher in front of the condenser. (I've allowed for this in my harness setup if needed.) 

[John_Kunkel]

I'm thinking (uh-oh) that the deciding factor here isn't so much the size of the fan but the size of the radiator; I'll assume that everybody recommending fans here has a 26" or larger radiator. 

I'm shopping for a fan for a 23" radiator and the size of the Tripac is perfect for me but the question of CFM makes me hesitant to commit to one.

[b5blue]

  I'll know soon.  (yes mine is 26".) CFM Ratings are nothing to go by really, real world testing by competent users holds more value. I found Spal well regarded, why I bought the first fan set.
  In my kitchen I installed a 450CFM vent fan, clears the whole house out in minutes! 

[b5blue]

  Initial testing looks good. First start up a few adjustments to set temp on fan control and as the engine hit 180* the fan came on and held 180* at idle on my carport in 89 degree weather. (10-15 minutes.) I want to cool and cycle to 180* a few times to check things before a road test.
  Putting my hand in front of the new condenser a rag or sheet of paper would stick from the pull. Feeling the backside of fan output it's pulling a ton of heat out of the radiator. It makes a low humming sound when on that isn't too loud with no vibration at all.   

[b5blue]

Pics of my home made controller:

[rebby]

What type of controller did you make? Looks like you're triggering the fans via the relays but I don't recognize the other pieces in the picture, at least not right off hand.

What is everybody using for a thermostat/thermo-switch setup? I have a 180 tstat and my fan runs almost constantly due to the 185/170 switch that I (accidentally) have installed right now. I'm going to swap in a 195/180 switch and am hoping that keeps the fans off more often than not. If that doesn't do the trick, I'm getting a PWM controller.

[b5blue]

  Below the Beep Beep horn is a Hayden 3653. It turns on both hi and low 40amp rated relays to the left at whatever temp you set it to. To the right is a mini fuse block fed off alt output with 2 30amp fuses, one for each fan power to relay. 

[myk]

How is your rainbow fan mounted to your radiator?

[b5blue]

  The fan came with the kinda tie wrap things you mount through the core. (So it's directly mounted.) What's cool is the mounting ears on the fan are such that 4 rubber pads will fit in recesses for push/pull mounting to cushion attachment.
  I farted around with making brackets or a shroud but there is so little room I just gave up. A flat shroud would block off airflow and brackets would move the fan back reducing suction through the radiator and hence the A/C's condenser. Today is test drive day so we will see how it fairs just driving around in traffic. If it passes I'll complete A/C install and charge it with R134 for more testing. 

[b5blue]

  Thanks Ron this fan is working so well I need to readjust temp. switch higher. It's holding the temp. at 170 steady regardless of any operating condition.  This bodes well for being okay for the A/C system as this testing is done with the condenser in place blocking airflow to the radiator. I may fart around with wiring/switching for high/low if high isn't needed all the time.
  Again this fan is attached with supplied through the radiator straps with no type of shrouding. You can't hear it running over the general 440 operating engine noise.

[firefighter3931]

Excellent Neal ! That fan is a winner....I love it on my car 

Hopefully with the A/C running it will still be able to keep up. If it can cool a Roots supercharged 500in build (Steve) and my N/A 572 street beast....you should be fine. It's looking very encouraging so far ! 


Ron

[b5blue]

  My only worry is it being attached directly to my getting kinda old Modine 3 row brass radiator. Will it support over time?  I've got my eye on a nice aluminum replacement just in case, it has side flanges that will adapt to better mounting.
  I'll know soon the A/C is under vacuum test right now. 

[firefighter3931]

  My only worry is it being attached directly to my getting kinda old Modine 3 row brass radiator. Will it support over time?  I've got my eye on a nice aluminum replacement just in case, it has side flanges that will adapt to better mounting.
  I'll know soon the A/C is under vacuum test right now. 

Mine is attached the same way yours is and has been for 4-5 years. No problems so far. I'm using an aftermarket aluminum AFCO crossflow rad with dual 1.25in tubes. 

Keep us posted on your progress 



Ron

[Charger4404spd]

Excellent Neal ! That fan is a winner....I love it on my car 

Hopefully with the A/C running it will still be able to keep up. If it can cool a Roots supercharged 500in build (Steve) and my N/A 572 street beast....you should be fine. It's looking very encouraging so far ! 


Ron

Just back from Hot Rod Reunion in Bowling Green. Thursday was 107° and in traffic with several red lights my car got up to 210°. So I think it will be fine

[b5blue]

  Okay it's holding temp at 185* driving with A/C on in normal traffic. Yesterday was only 87* outside so not a test of the tipping point yet. The A/C is working hard with no interior in the car. Boy the tunnel and floors get really hot! No wonder I've been miserable now that feel the difference by running A/C.
  It's working, A/C blows cold and engine temp in range so I'll work on insulating the cabin/floors. 

[myk]

I really hate watching the temp gauge...

[John_Kunkel]

Okay it's holding temp at 185* driving with A/C on in normal traffic. Yesterday was only 87* outside so not a test of the tipping point yet. 

Is the alternator keeping up?

[b5blue]

  John the Denso Alt. is doing good. Tested to 60amps @ idle and careful to wire things to keep large draws out of the factory dash harness it's doing fine. The 18.00 thermal switch controls 2 40amp relays, one for low and one for high legs of the motor. The actual fan "draw" running looks to be about 35amp near as I can tell.
  MYK the car never had cooling issues before and even pumping heat out of the cabin with the condenser in front of the radiator blocking air flow plus adding heat the fan is keeping up okay. I'll be watching all the gauges for any sign of trouble being I changed so much. 

[myk]

Sounds like you've got it all sorted out, but why did you switch to an e-fan if you didn't have cooling issues before?  Question about you guys with electric fans though: why is it that some fans need controllers but others are OK to be installed with just a relay?  Or do you need both?  I was thinking about en e-fan like that Rainbow one but I don't want to install the controller and all that stuff.  Can't I just connect it to a relay and switch like my current electric pusher fan?  Or does the dual speed nature of the Rainbow fan need a controller?

[b5blue]

  My big flex fan was too big, it would have hit the compressor clutch. It worked great for 21 years with no shroud. Sorting out a new high capacity fan/mounting/shroud turned into a complicated crap shoot. What fits and then will it work?  So by adding A/C I started the "change one thing and everything changes" chain of events.
  Many years ago I solved the weak alt. output @ idle by installing a Denso that puts out 60amp @ idle if needed so I knew for my build adding an e-fan was no problem. However finding a quality high CMF fan was. USAF trained in electronics and installs I know what to look for and what to do but needed real world feedback first. Controllers get costly fast and if they fail then what? By building my own I can "over rate" and make fixable. Using a temp. switch that is rated for a smaller 18amp fan to turn on a relay that uses .6amp means it should never wear out. The 2 relays control about 25amp but are rated for 40amp each. (At startup, at speed running about 18amps.) See the "over rating"? The capacity of each part is near double or much more than actual load it will ever see. I did likewise for the ignition, e-choke and A/C power supply. You can just use your switch to control one or two relays if you add a big fan/fans. 

[myk]

Ok then.  I want to control the fan on my own with a simple toggle switch, stupid as that sounds...

[b5blue]

Right but have the switch control a relay. That way you don't run a high amp wire into and out of your dash. You use a much shorter run to turn the fan on that is much better electrically. The longer a wire the bigger it must be to handle the power load, fans use a lot.

[b5blue]

  Fan still working but stuck in stop and go traffic yesterday temp creeped up to about 200-210 with A/C running. Outside temps in 90's with feels like temp over 100. We are getting into the "Dog Days" of summer here so here comes the acid testing of cooling capacity. I watched my gauge closely and left the A/C on, it never got higher so things are close to balance. 

[b5blue]

Okay I've got a P2998326-001 shroud, Hayden 2747 clutch and Derale 17119 fan to install. This setup should fit and still clear A/C compressor, my initial problem. I'll run test with just this before putting the electric fan up front as a pusher.   

[303 Mopar]

Okay I've got a P2998326-001 shroud, Hayden 2747 clutch and Derale 17119 fan to install. This setup should fit and still clear A/C compressor, my initial problem. I'll run test with just this before putting the electric fan up front as a pusher.   

Post a pic of that set up installed please.

[b5blue]

This fits but again rubs front of A/C clutch.  This crap is making me nuts...putting electric back so no pics.

[b5blue]

Ordered a Derale 19118 fan. Thinner and a fixed design I'll try spacing it just right. With the car in daily use this is getting to be a pain in the butt. 
http://derale.com/derale-blog/2-uncategorised/133-19118