'69 charger power drum issues

[lukedukem]

i replaced my brake booster for my power drums and i worked great for the summer. well, i went for a drive this past weekend and the first time i hit the pedal it grabbed really good (almost to good), but then i let off and the second time i hit the pedal i had to use both feet to stop. and i had to push really hard on it. I'm not sure what is causing this. i was looking at upgrading to power disk using MP Brakes, but they say i need 18" vacuum at idle, i think currently have 15-16. will this be an issue? and does anyone know what might be causing my issues currently?. i also rebuilt my drums with all new parts while replacing booster, and it worked great. for awhile.

Luke

[303 Mopar]

Maybe a vacuum leak or air in the lines?

[b5blue]

I did a swap to manual after getting tired of booster costs. (The last one did last many years.) Car stopped fine with manual drum and later, now I have disk up front still manual. Now I actually like the feel better as Mopar are kind over-boosted. Worth considering. 

[lukedukem]

Thanks guys. I'm trying to decide on what to go with. that booster was a PITA to swap out, I'd hate to have to do that over and over...
I'd like to go to disk and i have the money (I think). its just what to go with really. and if i can do the swap myself.

Luke

[b5blue]

I used Mopar swap out stuff bought long ago, before all these kits were available. I used a new Raybestos master from 76 Aspen but "The Ram man" can set you up and even give you trade in on what you have.  Contact him, I'm sure you could do the swap!

[lukedukem]

i think my master cylinder is bad, it is leaking between it and the booster. and i want to replace it. i know i need the one with one bolt through the middle
http://www.classicindustries.com/product/mopar/parts/mc36221.html
but should i replace the lines too, the fluid is bad looking, or just blow them out best i can. I'm thinking about changing just the hoses. any thoughts.
i looked on classic industries site and the have several different lines for b bodies... kinda confusing. but i know the hoses are original and need to be done

Luke

[b5blue]

I used Rockauto and Fine Lines. If your threads are good and lines not failing replace master, flush lines and try that. (Buys you time.)

[lukedukem]

Thanks Neal. I know it buys me time. Till I can do the disk swap. But the parts for this isn't much compared to swap, so hopefully this works and I can save for a disk swap. Thanks for the help


Luke

[b5blue]

 

[lukedukem]

and now i have found more issues... i can not win... i guess a rock or something hit this and broke off the bleeder screw.
First is passenger side. drivers is whats missing...
I think I'm gonna just by a disk brake swap kit for this thing...
Luke

[lukedukem]

OK, here what i want to do... i want to buy this wilwood kit
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-11020
but my question is, what master cylinder do i get, and will it work with my power drum booster.

Luke

[303 Mopar]

OK, here what i want to do... i want to buy this wilwood kit
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-11020
but my question is, what master cylinder do i get, and will it work with my power drum booster.

Luke

You need this booster as the drum booster will not work with discs.  http://www.doctordiff.com/bendix-style-dual-diaphragm-booster.html

[b5blue]

OK, here what i want to do... i want to buy this wilwood kit
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-11020
but my question is, what master cylinder do i get, and will it work with my power drum booster.

Luke

I don't like that. See how the hub is attached to the rotor. It should be all one casting with reinforcing ribs inside the hub. 

[cdr]

OK, here what i want to do... i want to buy this wilwood kit
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-11020
but my question is, what master cylinder do i get, and will it work with my power drum booster.

Luke

that one is more for drag race,  I am saving for this one with drilled rotor up grade, also pay attention if you have stock sway bar mounting location, I have an aftermarket bar in stock location, so my calipers will be rear mounted,     LINK  http://www.doctordiff.com/front-disc-brake-kit-for-11.75-on-disc-knuckles.html

[b5blue]

Yup  Kinda what I have.  Massive beefy cop car stuff. 

[lukedukem]

Man there's a lot of options out there for these kits. I was kinda wanting to keep my drum spindles, but the link Charlie posted is cheaper. Plus I'm needing to replace my front end, I could do it all at the same time.
One issue still plagues me, the booster issue. These are high dollar, can I swap to manual brakes. Is it easy. If so what M/C do I use. What are you going with Charlie.

Luke

[cdr]

Man there's a lot of options out there for these kits. I was kinda wanting to keep my drum spindles, but the link Charlie posted is cheaper. Plus I'm needing to replace my front end, I could do it all at the same time.
One issue still plagues me, the booster issue. These are high dollar, can I swap to manual brakes. Is it easy. If so what M/C do I use. What are you going with Charlie.

Luke

I have manual 4 drum, & going to use the stock master cyl, to do so the port on the master that goes to the front brakes i will remove the rp valve.

you can use the set up you have & do the same.

[cdr]

Read this, Thanks to John k
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2064925/re-disc-brake-master-cy.html#Post2064925

[lukedukem]

Thanks for the link, but my master cylinder is getting replaced, it's leaking. Is there one that I can use as manual brakes, I would hate to have to buy a new disk M/C and booster to match. My drum booster isn't that old, but now the time to do this. All of this. My budget is about 3k, to do all the suspension, steering and brake swap.
It's finding kits and parts that will work all together

Luke

[cdr]

Thanks for the link, but my master cylinder is getting replaced, it's leaking. Is there one that I can use as manual brakes, I would hate to have to buy a new disk M/C and booster to match. My drum booster isn't that old, but now the time to do this. All of this. My budget is about 3k, to do all the suspension, steering and brake swap.
It's finding kits and parts that will work all together

Luke

If the master leaked into the booster, it very well may be damaged ? 

[lukedukem]

I think I caught it in time. I just removed it but can't post pics till the morning. I removed the plunger system and brown junk came out.  
What's the best way to clean out the lines
Luke

[cdr]

  Denatured Alcohol & then blow air through them.

[cdr]

call drdiff & see if he has a master cyl that will work for you.   dont forget alcohol is flammable !!!!!

[lukedukem]

Thanks. Yeah I plan on calling tomorrow and see what they say.

Luke

[lukedukem]

Here's what i found. I'm tossing this anyway, but last time i checked this the fluid was clean. not sure what happened. oh well.
Gotta wait till 11am, Dr. diff isn't open till then 

[ht4spd307]

what people don't realize the brakes take in air through the master cylinder there is a small hole on the top of the master cylinder lid and with time air with moisture gets in and into the oil leaving what you have rust it normally mixes with the oil changing the color as water gets trapped in the brake system .the brake system is and should be another part of a vehicles maintenance schedule just like an oil change i do mine once a year i drain mine with a vacuum pump as i fill the master cylinder as long as no air gets in as i do this the brakes don't need to be bled .by doing this yearly you ll find that you brake cylinders will almost last  a life time as its the dirty oil  that that damages the rubber seals.

[lukedukem]

Man there's a lot of options out there for these kits. I was kinda wanting to keep my drum spindles, but the link Charlie posted is cheaper. Plus I'm needing to replace my front end, I could do it all at the same time.
One issue still plagues me, the booster issue. These are high dollar, can I swap to manual brakes. Is it easy. If so what M/C do I use. What are you going with Charlie.

Luke

I have manual 4 drum, & going to use the stock master cyl, to do so the port on the master that goes to the front brakes i will remove the rp valve.

you can use the set up you have & do the same.

So i called Dr. diff and he recommends me buying the brake kit along with a new master cylinder and Bendix booster. that's 300 bucks, my drum booster is new, and i can find a new drum m/c for cheap and mod it to work. but when i asked about the removing the rp valve, he said i can try but he said because of the drum booster its not gonna effect anything. he really thinks i should buy all this stuff for a power brake simple install. which is what I'm going for but other kits are cheaper, like CPP. but i guess this is factory stuff?
Stage two brake kit 635.00 w/ drilled rotors
1 1/8 bore M/C for 75.00
Bendix Booster for 300.00
1 Piece Proportioning Valve  85.00
1,095 total.

Or like charlie was saying i can use my set up now and get a Drum M/C for 35.00 and mod it
brake kit for 635.00
not sure if i need the 1 Piece Proportioning Valve
try it to see if it works

Or get one of his m/c and keep my drum booster. and get the 1 Piece Proportioning Valve



Luke

[cdr]

Man there's a lot of options out there for these kits. I was kinda wanting to keep my drum spindles, but the link Charlie posted is cheaper. Plus I'm needing to replace my front end, I could do it all at the same time.
One issue still plagues me, the booster issue. These are high dollar, can I swap to manual brakes. Is it easy. If so what M/C do I use. What are you going with Charlie.

Luke

I have manual 4 drum, & going to use the stock master cyl, to do so the port on the master that goes to the front brakes i will remove the rp valve.

you can use the set up you have & do the same.

So i called Dr. diff and he recommends me buying the brake kit along with a new master cylinder and Bendix booster. that's 300 bucks, my drum booster is new, and i can find a new drum m/c for cheap and mod it to work. but when i asked about the removing the rp valve, he said i can try but he said because of the drum booster its not gonna effect anything. he really thinks i should buy all this stuff for a power brake simple install. which is what I'm going for but other kits are cheaper, like CPP. but i guess this is factory stuff?
Stage two brake kit 635.00 w/ drilled rotors
1 1/8 bore M/C for 75.00
Bendix Booster for 300.00
1 Piece Proportioning Valve  85.00
1,095 total.

Or like charlie was saying i can use my set up now and get a Drum M/C for 35.00 and mod it
brake kit for 635.00
not sure if i need the 1 Piece Proportioning Valve
try it to see if it works

Or get one of his m/c and keep my drum booster. and get the 1 Piece Proportioning Valve



Luke

I am going to try it without the proportioning valve, if it dont work i will get an adjustable one.

[lukedukem]

i am placing my order now. gonna get the stage 2 kit, with a 15/16" bore M/C for maximum line pressure and see if that works. i might get an adjustable proportioning valve to have on hand in case i need it.
at the same time I'm gonna order Moog front end kit and hotchkis sway bar for the front.
I'm in it for 1500 bucks now. not to mention if i need stuff when i get into taking it apart.
still need shocks and what rear leaf springs to get.
My budget is going fast. 

Luke

[cdr]

i am placing my order now. gonna get the stage 2 kit, with a 15/16" bore M/C for maximum line pressure and see if that works. i might get an adjustable proportioning valve to have on hand in case i need it.
at the same time I'm gonna order Moog front end kit and hotchkis sway bar for the front.
I'm in it for 1500 bucks now. not to mention if i need stuff when i get into taking it apart.
still need shocks and what rear leaf springs to get.
My budget is going fast. 

Luke

I understand

[303 Mopar]

I ordered the same Stage 2 kit from Cass with the booster because he told me it would not work with my current drum booster.  You can see the size difference, and I had to make the hole in the firewall larger.  Also, make sure you have the correct size wheel studs, they sent me ones that were too small.

[lukedukem]

I'm gonna take a chance and see if it works with drum booster. I'll keep you guys posted when it comes in

Luke

[cdr]

I'm gonna take a chance and see if it works with drum booster. I'll keep you guys posted when it comes in

Luke

        10-4   

[lukedukem]

OK, so I'm stuck on the torsion bars, should i replace them. my car was originally a 318 car, now a 383. not sure... if i do what size and where do i get them? do i need anything that goes with them? since I'm doing all my steering and suspension along with this brake upgrade i thought about these, just have to watch the budget. I'm ordering the Moog components today, and looking for a good shock to go with.
so what are yalls thoughts, will these 318 T-bars work, or upgrade to the .92 for 440 and hemi cars while I'm here?
i just remembered that i am trying to get all this done by July 4th
i took some pics of what i'm doing, here is with the drum assembly removed. what tools do i  need to remove these ball joints loose. i tryed to use a fork , but it just got wedged in there.


Luke

[303 Mopar]

Torsion bars are one of the biggest bangs for your buck (along with sub-frame connectors).  I would go 1.10 or more, as I just did, they make the front much more solid.  I would also highly recommend going with a bigger front sway than your original, like 1 7/8".  Many places have them but some of the cheapest are PST, and they have a coupon in the catalog or online if you can find it.  The torsion bars usually come with a new dust boot and clips in case yours are missing or need replaced.

For shocks, you can't beat Bilsteins as far as price to performance.  PST also sells these.  FirmFeel has all these parts too but are more expensive.  I would also check Summit as they offer free shipping.

[lukedukem]

Torsion bars are one of the biggest bangs for your buck (along with sub-frame connectors).  I would go 1.10 or more, as I just did, they make the front much more solid.  I would also highly recommend going with a bigger front sway than your original, like 1 7/8".  Many places have them but some of the cheapest are PST, and they have a coupon in the catalog or online if you can find it.  The torsion bars usually come with a new dust boot and clips in case yours are missing or need replaced.

For shocks, you can't beat Bilsteins as far as price to performance.  PST also sells these.  FirmFeel has all these parts too but are more expensive.  I would also check Summit as they offer free shipping.

1.10 sounds a bit much, you think I needs that big. As for the sway bar, I have a hotchkis on the way already. And I'm looking at bilsteins as well. Not sure about subframe connectors yet, I'm trying to stay with in budget

Luke

[303 Mopar]

1.10 sounds a bit much, you think I needs that big. As for the sway bar, I have a hotchkis on the way already. And I'm looking at bilsteins as well. Not sure about subframe connectors yet, I'm trying to stay with in budget

Luke

These cars were way under-sprung so 1.10 is the minimum I would recommend.  It is not too stiff at all and really holds it tight to the road, especially with your big block.

You will like the hotchkis sway!  The Bilsteins are a bit pricey but well worth it.  For the subframes, if you can weld at all, you can just buy some steel tubing and put them in.  I am welding challenged, so a local shop did them for me for $200 including material.  Again, great upgrade as the car feels so much more solid.

[lukedukem]

Wait, weld what now. The bilsteins?

[Brass]

For what it's worth, I have the 1.0" bars from Just Suspension and they were fairly affordable.  I like them a lot and they were a BIG improvement over the 318 bars.  Still, I don't think going even bigger would be a problem whatsoever.

[303 Mopar]

Wait, weld what now. The bilsteins?

talking Bilstein shocks, then addressed your point on subframe connectors.  I fixed the post.