Still no spark

[poppa]

Did you try jumping 12 volts to the coil? If you put 12 to the coil and it starts , you'd rule out the coil/dist. Correct?? Then just work your way back. So where do you live? As posted earlier , someone may be close.

[XH29N0G]

With the distributor spinning you should see some AC voltage, around 0.333 or so. You can either remove the distributor and turn the rotor by hand, or last time I did it I left the distributor installed and used a remote starter switch to crank it over.

I then disconnected the pick up coil plug-in that runs from the wire harness into the distributor. I put my multimeter to the ohm setting, then ran the positive lead to both ends of the plug-in. First the gray then the black wire while the ground probe was held to the base of the distributor body just above the block. Both readings read ol.   Do any of these readings set off any alarms?

I have been following this but not chiming in because it looks like those responding have better suggestions than I would.  I have a question about the tests and specifically the test of the magnetic pickup on the distributor.  I did not see that you tested the AC signal coming out.  I saw the ground test, and others, also that you have tested the wiring, swapped coil, ecu, ballast resistor, etc.... which I assume since they are new and passing tests so far, means they are good.

[Barfyspitz]

Hey guys it's been a while sorry for no replies.  Been severely busy at work and haven't had time to mess with the car. I checked a couple things today while cranking. The negative coil was showing a solid 10.30 V. When I run a test mobile it shows that it's getting power while it's cranking and when it's in run. And never flickers is that a problem?  The pick up coil is the proper .008 inches. I disconnected the pick up coil wires and check while cranking. The black wire with the white stripe showed 11.26 V and the gray wire showed 5.80 V. I am starting to get really frustrated with this and losing hope LOL. If anybody has any more suggestions or if any of these readings is raising alarms let me know. By the way I'm in central Illinois.

[Barfyspitz]

  Another question is am I doing damage to my rotating assembly cranking on it  trying to get it to start. Should I just break down and buy an MSD system and try that?

[poppa]

You have no spark at all?? You have power at the resistor , correct? How far after that (how close to the dist) do you have power? Was this a swap ? Resto ? Upgrade ? Or a problem that just started?

[Barfyspitz]

Ya. I've laid the number one plug on the block(I double checked to make sure the plug was getting grounded) no spark tried a different plug... No spark. Pulled the distributor wire out of the center of the cap to try and arc it... No spark. Made a different dist wire no spark. The ballast resistor is getting power. Already bought a new one and tried it. Same with the ECU. It was. Running fine in dec.... and in jan. It wouldn't start and the fun began lol.

[XH29N0G]

If the test of the coil you did shows the coil is good, then it should produce a spark from its secondary windings when a current is sent through the primary windings.  This makes me wonder if the signal to the coil (Which I thought came from the reluctor and sensor and is that 0.333 volt alternating current signal that metallicareload99 mentioned looking for a few posts back) is just not happening (maybe a bad sensor???).  You checked the distance between the reluctor and the sensor, but did you check to see that this AC signal is coming out of the distributor and being sent to the ECU?  I may be completely off base because I really do not understand this, but my guess is that someone will be able to pipe in to tell you or if there are other tests of other parts of this system.  

[Barfyspitz]

I tested ac voltage in cavity four when crankin and tha showed .030v. Cavity 5 showed .035 while cranking.  It's less than the .333 volts that metallic posted was sufficient. I wonder if it's not getting enough voltage

[XH29N0G]

Unfortunately, I do not know the answer to this.  I did a search to see if I could find anything and came up empty.  I wonder if it makes sense to start a new thread with a title that asks what is the minimum signal voltage from distributor to trigger ECU and coil?  There has to be a solution to your problem and I can only imagine how frustrating it is to troubleshoot.  You might also PM some of the people who mentioned the sensor and reluctor to ask them directly for help.  Maybe they have missed the latest part of the thread.

[Barfyspitz]

OK but I do appreciate your help and help her bail so far. Seems like I should be getting spark with all the readings I'm getting seem to be pretty close to what people say they should be. I wonder if it's something as simple as the bulkhead connections a little bit corroded. I Not sure how to disconnect that.

[XH29N0G]

My thinking is as follows:  You don't have spark from the coil, so you cannot have it from the distributor.  If the key on and off positions both send a signal to the ballast resistor and the key on position turns the starter over, then the circuit from your key to the engine should be fine.  That much I am pretty sure of.  I also believe that the readings on the coil you made indicate that the coil is good and getting sufficient current.  So if the coil is not generating a spark then I suspect it is whatever part of the system drives that.  The only thing I see from what you have measured that is different from the signal voltage coming from the distributor sensor is about 10 times lower than what was quoted earlier.  I am not sure if this is enough to trigger the ignition.  So that is why I came back to that.  I suspect it is either the sensor or the ECU.

[poppa]

Is yours just like the 4 pin drawing? If so , get a helper (to try and start it. Run a jumper to the + side of coil ,see if it starts. If not ,pull apart the plug , run a jumper to the pos wire going in and the other to ground. No start , I'd dump that system and go to a Mallory or Acell. Any swaps coming up by you?? That's just me. Checking it is free!

[Barfyspitz]

Is yours just like the 4 pin drawing? If so , get a helper (to try and start it. Run a jumper to the + side of coil ,see if it starts. If not ,pull apart the plug , run a jumper to the pos wire going in and the other to ground. No start , I'd dump that system and go to a Mallory or Acell. Any swaps coming up by you?? That's just me. Checking it is free!

Mine actually looks like a five pin but the cavity that would be number three iIs disconnected(the Oneore clock position wire was manufactured cut.  So to make sure that I understand correctly you run a wire from the positive battery terminal to the positive coil terminal and then do you run a wire from the negative post on the coil to a ground and then try to start it?

[Barfyspitz]

 Also on the other test you describe, I need to  disconnect the ECU  plug, run a wire from the battery positive post to the number four cavity and then run a negative ground wire to the number five cavity?

[Barfyspitz]

My thinking is as follows:  You don't have spark from the coil, so you cannot have it from the distributor.  If the key on and off positions both send a signal to the ballast resistor and the key on position turns the starter over, then the circuit from your key to the engine should be fine.  That much I am pretty sure of.  I also believe that the readings on the coil you made indicate that the coil is good and getting sufficient current.  So if the coil is not generating a spark then I suspect it is whatever part of the system drives that.  The only thing I see from what you have measured that is different from the signal voltage coming from the distributor sensor is about 10 times lower than what was quoted earlier.  I am not sure if this is enough to trigger the ignition.  So that is why I came back to that.  I suspect it is either the sensor or the ECU.
[/quot
I think you're onto something there you may be right

[poppa]

NO. Jumper from battery to + side of coil only.

[poppa]

SEcond one from coil neg to dist pos wire , other dist wire to ground (if coil is working).

[poppa]

Or..... you could hook up a test light. Ground test light, turn on ignition , touch to + on coil. If it lights you have power TO the coil. Now have a helper turn it over while touching to - side of coil. Should pulse (flash). If it flashes , it's something in the circuit AFTER the coil. If no flash but it lights on + it's the coil. You had power on both sides of the ballast , correct?

[Barfyspitz]

Or..... you could hook up a test light. Ground test light, turn on ignition , touch to + on coil. If it lights you have power TO the coil. Now have a helper turn it over while touching to - side of coil. Should pulse (flash). If it flashes , it's something in the circuit AFTER the coil. If no flash but it lights on + it's the coil. You had power on both sides of the ballast , correct?

Yes I had power on both sides of the ballast resistor. When I use the test bulb on the coil in both run and cranking , the negative side would just stay lit...it didn't flash. it also read roughly  the same voltage as the positive

[Pete in NH]

Or..... you could hook up a test light. Ground test light, turn on ignition , touch to + on coil. If it lights you have power TO the coil. Now have a helper turn it over while touching to - side of coil. Should pulse (flash). If it flashes , it's something in the circuit AFTER the coil. If no flash but it lights on + it's the coil. You had power on both sides of the ballast , correct?

Yes I had power on both sides of the ballast resistor. When I use the test bulb on the coil in both run and cranking , the negative side would just stay lit...it didn't flash. it also read roughly  the same voltage as the positive

Hi,
I would think based on the light not flashing and the same voltage on both coil positive and negative there are four possibilities. 1- the ECU is bad, 2- the ECU is not grounded, 3- the ECU is not being triggered by the pick -up coil in the distributor, or 4- the wire/connection between the ECU pin and coil negative is open.

A test meter in the OHMS position can be used to check #'s 3 and 4.

Do you have a meter and do you know how to use it in the OHMS position?

[firefighter3931]

Have you checked the pickup ? Run a resistance test on the pickup and see what you've got. You should have around 300 ohms but the acceptable range is 150-900 

It sounds like there is no signal reaching the ECU 

To run the test :  Unplug the distributor and stick the multimeter probes on the orange and black pickup leads to get the ohms.


Ron

[poppa]

What they said. All associated grounds clean and tight?


Do you have the two prong plug between the module and dist ? Did you pull it apart to check the connection?

[ACUDANUT]

 Bite the bullet and go buy a new points dist.(less than 80.00)  Drive it ,then have a shop look at it.  

[metallicareload99]

If the test of the coil you did shows the coil is good, then it should produce a spark from its secondary windings when a current is sent through the primary windings.  This makes me wonder if the signal to the coil (Which I thought came from the reluctor and sensor and is that 0.333 volt alternating current signal that metallicareload99 mentioned looking for a few posts back) is just not happening (maybe a bad sensor???).  You checked the distance between the reluctor and the sensor, but did you check to see that this AC signal is coming out of the distributor and being sent to the ECU?  I may be completely off base because I really do not understand this, but my guess is that someone will be able to pipe in to tell you or if there are other tests of other parts of this system.  

I wasn't sure wether or not he tested the pickup coil with his meter set to AC voltage or DC. Even if it was set to DC I think he might see the low voltage reading he saw. If it indeed was set for DC voltage I don't know how it would interpret the AC voltage, it might have summed the intermittent V+ over some time interval, or averaged what it was reading. It seems more or less there is some signal coming out of the pickup, but I would at least do the resistance test Ron mentioned.

My guess is there is a problem with the ECU, or maybe wiring. You said the test lamp bulb stayed constantly on when it was hooked up to the coil? Does the coil get hot ever? I believe the lamp should have only blinked when the engine is turning over or running, and otherwise be off. If it stayed on that would indicate to me that a constant current is being drawn through the coil which would be a problem. Do you have a tachometer hooked up? Might want to look for a short in the wiring coming off the coil

[Barfyspitz]

Have you checked the pickup ? Run a resistance test on the pickup and see what you've got. You should have around 300 ohms but the acceptable range is 150-900 

It sounds like there is no signal reaching the ECU 

To run the test :  Unplug the distributor and stick the multimeter probes on the orange and black pickup leads to get the ohms.
Thanks Ron. I disconnected the plug and ran my ohn meter into each of the wires, the gray and the black and got 279.2 ohms

Ron