Still no spark

[Barfyspitz]

Well just spent two more hours in the garage with more tests still can't get any spark. replaced the coil the ballist resistor  the orange box checked wiring from the ECU pug to dist for continuity the adjusted the reluctor the sensor to .008 ( seemed loose). A little Flash rust on reluctor wheel?   wiring seems to be good from the ECU plug down to the distributor. Rotor and cap look ok. Getting 11.v to coil in run position. Ohms tested balllist resistor showed1.0. Tried to get accurate readings for the wires coming out of the center wire harness block on the firewall. Is that the bulkhead?  Was only getting three solid readings. When checking the rest of the wires my voltmeter just bounced around is that part of the problem?  Does anybody have a diagram that shows what wire is which on that wiring harness?  Any thoughts or ideas based on what I've said it would be greatly appreciated I'm pretty probably missing something. I also want to think NACHO for all his help so far.  Ive learned a lot about the ignition system and know a lot more about It than when I started. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[tan top]

I went through all this one time   , car ran awesome one day ,  parked it  up in garage , went to fire it up the next morning  , no start   , went through everything  & then some  , swapped  wiring , coils , ECU s  ,  ballast resistors ,   even plugs & leads & ignition switch  ,    yeah yeah I know  , but I changed everything else so might as well have done these    , only way it would fire up  , was if I swapped back to the points distributor .  turned out , it was the magnetic pick up in the MP distributor ,  took the cap & rotor off , & the  metal strip was loose , that part you stick the feeler gauge between  that & the reculator !.  must of broken in side    ,  fitted a new pick up , fired up  straight away  

[Barfyspitz]

Really!   I wonder if that's what I've got? I was told to make sure it was .008 so when I took the cap and rotor off I touched the sensor and it wiggled around a little bit like it was loose. So that's not supposed to move it all right? How hard was it to replace that what how do you replace it? I really appreciate it!

[Barfyspitz]

Actually after re-reading your post that whole sensor moves around a little bit not just the little metal strip

[tan top]

 I mean no offence  , with out actually being there  , its hard to , guess or see whats happening .   silly question I know !  have you had the car running  with the MP electronic ignition set up ?  have you done anything since it was running ?

what year is your charger ?

first picture below  is for a 69 ,  

N  light blue is ignition run  , it actually has a white tracer & changers to a solid blue somewhere near the voltage regulator from memory
Q   brown is ignition start .

I assume you have checked for a spark , with a spark plug connected to a plug lead & grounding it out while holding it with insulated pliers or a rubber glove ( if your not feeling brave ) , while cranking the motor ? ,  

its easy a 10 minute job max to change  pick up in the distributor ,  remove  distributor first ! & mount in a vice

[Barfyspitz]

no offense taken!  This car has been a complete learning experience for me and there is so much I don't know about it. I'm sure there's obvious symptoms that I am unaware of that other people can pick up on right away.It's a 68 charger  452stroker with the Mopar electronic ignition with the orange box. Ran fine  for 10 years. Drove fine in December.... Parked it....went to fired up and January no spark. Thus the fun began. Replaced the orange box replace the ballast resistor (showing 1 ohms)  replaced the coil ( showing 11.5 v in run position on both terminal posts, checked grounds. Did continuity tests from the ECU  plug to the distributor showed 275 ohm.  no spark at the distributor cap when I pull the wire out and crank the motor. The single blue wire on the ballast resistor is showing around 11 1/2 V when the key  is in run position.   The blue/brown wire on the driver side of ballast resistor is showing 8 V in the run position (problem?). I  noticed yesterday that the voltage on the blue/brown spliced wire on driver side of the ballast resistor starts around eight and starts dropping when cranking.  Nacho, who has been very helpful,  believes somethings Mixed up in the wiring and I am inclined to believe him since I should be showing 12 volts when cranking.  One new discovery was that I am supposed to have a green wire (tach) and a yellow and black wire on the negative post of the coil,  and the blue and black wire on the positive side of the coil. Unless I'm mistaken for the last 10 years I've run it with both wires hooked to the positive terminal. Unless I'm remembering it wrong when I started replacing parts and put it back together. I put the yellow and black wire with the green wire on the negative post yesterday but still no spark. I was checking bulkhead connections on the center wire block that appears to run to the motor and ignition system. Three of the wires gave me solid ratings of around 11 1/2 V the rest of the wires that are next to the fusible link gave me an inaccurate readings where the numbers on the multimeter just kept bouncing up and down. Another thing I recently read was that my ammeter gauge shouldnt bounce up-and-down when I drive the car. could this be related or just a separate issue?  Hopefully this information is not overwhelming and it provides clues to those more knowledgeable about this and I am. Thanks for your help

[firefighter3931]

Have you ran a primary and secondary resistance test on the coil ? Make sure the battery is fully charged as well !  The 11.5V in the run position is a bit low.


Ron

[Barfyspitz]

How do you run the primary and secondary tests on the coil?  Ps   I replaced the battery this morning cause the other one wAs 8 years old and would lose charge after a few cranks.

[firefighter3931]

How do you run the primary and secondary tests on the coil? 

With a multimeter set on OHMS 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8vSwfnX3Xc


Ron

[Barfyspitz]

Lol!!! Thanks for the video!  I learned a lot!   I have a msd blaster II coil. The primary test came up .5 ohms. The secondary was 4.59 ohms.

[Nacho-RT74]

The blue/brown wire on the driver side of ballast resistor is showing 8 V in the run position (problem?). I  noticed yesterday that the voltage on the blue/brown spliced wire on driver side of the ballast resistor starts around eight and starts dropping when cranking.  Nacho, who has been very helpful,  believes somethings Mixed up in the wiring and I am inclined to believe him since I should be showing 12 volts when cranking.

Brown line ( and everything spliced to ) must show 4.5 to 9 volts in run, and blue line must show about same batt reading while key in run... When cranking just right the opposite.

Of course, if your coil + lead of coil is blue, like all pre 70 cars are, it should show the brown line test. Since 70 this wire become brown.

As far I understood on this post, are you getting 8 volts on brown wire at ballast with key in RUN ? That's about right then. This same reading should be shown at + lead of coil. Then cranking should get around same batt voltage.

No matter which side of ballast is. Ballast conections can be reversed, but wires will show the same.

[Nacho-RT74]

Have you ran a primary and secondary resistance test on the coil ? Make sure the battery is fully charged as well !  The 11.5V in the run position is a bit low.


Ron

It should be even less in RUN! Batt reading at that post must be when cranking

[Nacho-RT74]

One question!

Have you checked if pick up coil its GROUNDED? Check for that, with one of the tester leads against dist body, check with both terminals on dist pick up coil plug. This piece must be isolated from chassis ground.

[metallicareload99]

In addition, the pickup in the distributor should make some AC voltage when it spins, around 0.2 to 0.5 volts. Check to see if you are getting that at the distributor's connector and then at ECU connector. Also at the ECU connector, see if you are getting 12 volts at Pin "1." Although the ballast resistor is bypassed when starting, the ballast resistor can be bypassed temporarily with a jumper wire to take it out of the equation. The quicker this is done, the better

[Nacho-RT74]

just to add

ECU voltage must get reversed voltage reading on both stages from the + lead of coil gets with ballast on line ( not jumped )

[ACUDANUT]

 I am going to adopt Nacho.  Love this kid. 

[Nacho-RT74]

Eeehm thank you, dunno why But thank you

Not a kid anymore, 40 YO. LOL

just to add

ECU voltage must get reversed voltage reading on both stages from the + lead of coil gets with ballast on line ( not jumped )

Edited a bit this reply but still dunno if sounds good what I'm trying to say.

While ECU gets 12 volts in RUN and coil gets 4.5 to 9 volts on same stage, in START the readings are backwards, while the ballast is correctly connected.

[Barfyspitz]

In addition, the pickup in the distributor should make some AC voltage when it spins, around 0.2 to 0.5 volts. Check to see if you are getting that at the distributor's connector and then at ECU connector. Also at the ECU connector, see if you are getting 12 volts at Pin "1." Although the ballast resistor is bypassed when starting, the ballast resistor can be bypassed temporarily with a jumper wire to take it out of the equation. The quicker this is done, the better

.
    OK so should I unplug the ECU  and use of voltmeter and stick it in the cavity number one of the ECu plug to make sure it's getting 12 V? I just want to make sure I'm understanding these tests correctly.  Also I'm unsure how to run the jumper wire b

[Barfyspitz]

One question!

Have you checked if pick up coil its GROUNDED? Check for that, with one of the tester leads against dist body, check with both terminals on dist pick up coil plug. This piece must be isolated from chassis ground.

.   
     Hey nacho!   I'm unsure how to run this test. To test for proper grounding to the pick up coil do I need to use a test light or a voltmeter? Do I have to unplug the two wires that run to the pick up coil or do you leave them connected and pull the distributor cap and use one lead against distributor body when the other lead touches the wires inside the distributor. ?  Does the key need to be in the run position?   

[ACUDANUT]

One question!

Have you checked if pick up coil its GROUNDED? Check for that, with one of the tester leads against dist body, check with both terminals on dist pick up coil plug. This piece must be isolated from chassis ground.

.  
    Hey nacho!   I'm unsure how to run this test. To test for proper grounding to the pick up coil do I need to use a test light or a voltmeter? Do I have to unplug the two wires that run to the pick up coil or do you leave them connected and pull the distributor cap and use one lead against distributor body when the other lead touches the wires inside the distributor. ?  Does the key need to be in the run position?  

Yea know, if you listed your state and town you just might have a neighbor here willing to help. 

[metallicareload99]

    OK so should I unplug the ECU  and use of voltmeter and stick it in the cavity number one of the ECu plug to make sure it's getting 12 V? I just want to make sure I'm understanding these tests correctly.  Also I'm unsure how to run the jumper wire b

It sound like you get no spark regardless if the key is in the run or start position so I doubt the resistor is the issue. You can run a jumper wire with alligator clips at the base of the resistor's spade terminals, but don't let it run like that becuase the coil will burn up quickly. Just see if it will start and run, if yes shut it off immediately and get a new resistor, if it doesn't run still you got other problems.

To see if you are getting 12 volts to the ECU, unplug the connector and turn the key to run, you should see 12 volts in one of the cavities. While you are at it, might want to get an idea of what kind of signal you're getting from the distributor at the ECU plug. You'll have to determine which cavities in the ECU plug are from the distributor but looking at the diagram above should give you the idea. With the distributor spinning you should see some AC voltage, around 0.333 or so. You can either remove the distributor and turn the rotor by hand, or last time I did it I left the distributor installed and used a remote starter switch to crank it over.

As for testing wether or not the distribution pickup is grounded I believe you'd use a voltmeter set to resistance/ohms. Unplug the connector and have one of your leads on the distributor body as a ground. Probe the terminals of the distributor connector, you should get extremely high readings or it'll show "infinity." I believe those are the results you would want. Anything else would indicate the pickup is shorting to ground

[Barfyspitz]

OK thanks. Well I ran some test with a new battery. Battery was reading 12.32 V. I tested cavity five while cranking and got .035 V. I tested cavity four while cranking and got .030 V. I tested the  ECU  plugcavity one with the key in run position and got 11.65 V. (This is the five pin wiring harness with the three cavity defunct since the orang box is a four pin). I then tested cavity two and got 11.65 V.   I then disconnected the pick up coil plug-in that runs from the wire harness into the distributor. I put my multimeter to the ohm setting, then ran the positive lead to both ends of the plug-in. First the gray then the black wire while the ground probe was held to the base of the distributor body just above the block. Both readings read ol.   Do any of these readings set off any alarms?

[Barfyspitz]

I tested the ballast resistor again. With the battery rating 12.26 V I put the key in the run position.  the blue wire on the ballast resistor was 11.56 V and the brown/blue wire was 8.35. I tested again and crank the brown/blue wire showed 10.68 V and the blue wire showed 17 mV. I check the coil positive post while cranking and it showed 10.56 V

[metallicareload99]

I tested the ballast resistor again. With the battery rating 12.26 V I put the key in the run position.  the blue wire on the ballast resistor was 11.56 V and the brown/blue wire was 8.35. I tested again and crank the brown/blue wire showed 10.68 V and the blue wire showed 17 mV. I check the coil positive post while cranking and it showed 10.56 V

Nothing seems too out of the ordinary, except if you are indeed getting battery voltage @ pin 2 with the ignition switch in the run position. Because of the ballast resistor I believe you should see lower voltage on that pin with the key in the run position. At any rate, it should still start in that scenario, just you will eventually burn up the coil. What voltage does coil negative show when cranking?

[blinkey]

  I had the same problem so I took out the electronic ign. and put my old dist. coil back in and my car started right up. Maybe a thought just to see