Partially wrap headers - new leads

[AWSOM50]

I got my old 69 Charger out recently, I used to work on it but I can hardly remember a thing about it and haven't picked up a spanner in years.  So apologies for newbie questions, I'm basically starting from square one.  I want to learn and work on it myself as a hobby for a bit as I have some free time on my hands...  I rewired loads of the under dash mess today as I had a fire previously - had some fun.  I'm an idiot and left it outside for years under a cover and it's gonna need some bodywork now... but anyway:

Question 1) my spark plug leads are slightly burnt by aftermarket headers.  Can I wrap the headers partially near the contact points without taking the headers off, or is this a bad idea?
Or, should I get some heat shield protector sleeves for the leads?

2) Does anyone know the part number for new spark plug leads:  I have NGK-R plugs and an MSD 8546 ignition and summit headers.  I ask because I wasted $ on the wrong ones from summit , costs me more to return than swallow the loss in UK.

3) Can I temporarily wrap the leads in electrical tape until I get the leads? (takes some time to deliver to UK)  The outer rubber is burnt, not the wire inside.  All cylinders seem to fire OK. 

I google'd this stuff and got various info, wanted to ask the experts...

Thanks, hope someone can help

[XH29N0G]

2) I'll let others respond about wrapping.  By leads, you mean the plug wires, not just the spark plug boot.  (sorry to ask for the clarification, but my guess is there is an American-English translation needed for me).  I am guessing it is the wires and the boots.  For that I am guessing you need the wires, boots and terminals for the MSD distributor and plugs you have.  I would drop Ron (Firefighter) a note to ask about a set of firecore wires, but others can advise on part numbers for summit or other places.  My guess is that knowing the right boot length combination is something that depends on the fact that you have headers and whether you have angled or straight plugs in the heads. I swapped boots on a few of my plug wires because they were burned rather than the wires themselves and that wasn't that difficult.

3) I would probably not wrap the wires in electrical tape unless I knew that it would not melt to make a mess when in contact with the headers. 

4)  I know there are insulators that people put over boots and it looks like there are some for the wires too.  I have not used those so don't know, but have used similar materials for furnaces we make at work, and those get at least as hot as the headers.

[68X426]

No to the tape.  It will melt just looking at it.

Yes to the heat sleeves.  Lots of types and companies to choose from. 

No to the wrap.  This is based on wrap advice provided by TTI.  They recommend to never wrap, whether it's a ceramic coated header or any stainless/steel header.  Essentially it helps to rot the pipe from the inside out due to containing moisture.

[HPP]

x2 on saying no to header wrap. Wrap is used on race cars, where headers are a consumable commodity.

Go to Summit Racing, search heat sleeves, you 'll get a number of choices that slip over the plug boots.

[polywideblock]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vulcan-Black-Heat-Protector-Woven-Spark-Plug-Wire-Sleeve-25-Made-in-the-USA-/371276011404?hash=item5671c6578c:g:x5wAAOSwcdBWSy-s&vxp=mtr

[AWSOM50]

2) I'll let others respond about wrapping.  By leads, you mean the plug wires, not just the spark plug boot.  (sorry to ask for the clarification, but my guess is there is an American-English translation needed for me).  I am guessing it is the wires and the boots.  For that I am guessing you need the wires, boots and terminals for the MSD distributor and plugs you have.  I would drop Ron (Firefighter) a note to ask about a set of firecore wires, but others can advise on part numbers for summit or other places.  My guess is that knowing the right boot length combination is something that depends on the fact that you have headers and whether you have angled or straight plugs in the heads. I swapped boots on a few of my plug wires because they were burned rather than the wires themselves and that wasn't that difficult.

3) I would probably not wrap the wires in electrical tape unless I knew that it would not melt to make a mess when in contact with the headers. 

4)  I know there are insulators that people put over boots and it looks like there are some for the wires too.  I have not used those so don't know, but have used similar materials for furnaces we make at work, and those get at least as hot as the headers.

Thanks guys, no wrapping of headers then.  Although under hood temps hit 230 in England stuck in traffic in 60 degrees F at which point some power is lost and it may overheat if I get in a traffic jam.  Might look into getting a fan shroud or a full ally rad with electric fan as mine isn't looking so hot.  Expensive but at least then I won't have to worry about it again.

Thermal insulators for the wires will be ordered, thanks.

I may actually put the stock exhaust manifolds back on, I remember having a lot of leaking gasket issues with these nasty headers.  We hammered them to hell to get them in the car.  Maybe that will help hood temps?

By "leads" I mean the full spark plug wires including boots.  We call them HT leads here, sorry for the confusion.  Mine are all 90 degrees.  I'm thinking this part:
MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor Spark Plug Wire Sets 31229

[XH29N0G]

Is it the boots that cause the wires to hit the headers? Or the boots that are melting?  I read that it was the wires that were melting.  I have a set of firecore wires that the people who built my engine set this up installed.  The boots that are installed work well with my headers and angled plugs.  I am also using spark plugs with slightly shorter insulators than normal (i.e., when installed, the distance from the head to the terminal nut is less).  I believe I have two right angle boots (like the MSD 3320) on cylinders 2 and 8, but all others are slight bend and look like the MSD 3326.

If you want a configuration that will work best, it may be possible to get additional feedback by making another thread dedicated to finding the best plug wire/boot combination for headers and either straight or angled plugs.  I would still send Ron (firefighter3931) a PM to ask as well because I bet he knows and can advise.

You also may want to post pictures of your wires. It may be that someone here will be able to suggest an easier fix than a full swap.

You mention two other things:

Temperature:  Engine bay or engine temperatures of 230 F sound too hot.  Is the 230 the engine temperature (i.e., on the gauge)?  If it is gauge that is reading this high, it is possible that the gauge may not be accurate.  I suggest verifying that the coolant is at the same temperature as (or close to) the gauge.  I checked my car using a cooking thermometer in the radiator neck (didn't open hot), but watched it until the thermostat opened and then waited until the radiator stabilized.  My gauge was in fact reading correctly and my engine was running hot (220 -230) in traffic.  I took a guess that my thermostat and engine were not the problem; so I changed the clutch on the fan.  I already had a fan shroud.  The temperature now rises to about 190 on the gauge (it is 180 with the thermometer), even when it is 95 F outside and 90% humidity.  My guess is that yours should behave the same way.  I think I bought a heavy duty fan clutch like the one that came with the car, but I have also heard that there is a jaguar version that is thinner and also works - to find this you need to do some internet searching, but clutch fan + 440 + jaguar seems to work.    I think people use these thin fans when they have different radiators.  If you can rule out the fan clutch, and shroud, then others on here can help with this.  The bottom line is that I think it should run cooler than 230 in traffic.

Leaks on headers: Some types of header gaskets are notorious for leaks.  I tried a number (including having copper gaskets installed by the people who installed my engine) and had leaks until I swapped to a crushable aluminum gasket.  I used Percy's, but there are other crushable aluminum (I just did a lead/wire thing here.  that is aluminium   - my leads question was for my clarification though - most probably already knew).  On some other threads people have listed some other gaskets that they report work as well and are less expensive.  I have had some difficulty searching with the search box on the site, but have found I can search for terms using google and including dodgecharger with the search.

[firefighter3931]

FireCore recommends using a 135* plug boot when using headers. That is what we use on the 8.5mm Pro-Fit ignition wires we sell. These are available for stock or HEI terminal distributor caps. 

The Firecore wire sets use a premium silicone boot that is compact so header tube clearance is improved. The cheap, bulky plastic boots will split and spark leak if they are too close to the header tube(s) 

If you are planning to use the factory exhaust manifolds there is a set made to fit those as well. The Factory Fit 7mm wires are identical to the stock set and can be routed using the factory wire looms. Those are also available in stock or male post HEI distributor cap.


Ron

[AWSOM50]

Is it the boots that cause the wires to hit the headers? Or the boots that are melting?  I read that it was the wires that were melting.  I have a set of firecore wires that the people who built my engine set this up installed.  The boots that are installed work well with my headers and angled plugs.  I am also using spark plugs with slightly shorter insulators than normal (i.e., when installed, the distance from the head to the terminal nut is less).  I believe I have two right angle boots (like the MSD 3320) on cylinders 2 and 8, but all others are slight bend and look like the MSD 3326.

If you want a configuration that will work best, it may be possible to get additional feedback by making another thread dedicated to finding the best plug wire/boot combination for headers and either straight or angled plugs.  I would still send Ron (firefighter3931) a PM to ask as well because I bet he knows and can advise.

You also may want to post pictures of your wires. It may be that someone here will be able to suggest an easier fix than a full swap.

You mention two other things:

Temperature:  Engine bay or engine temperatures of 230 F sound too hot.  Is the 230 the engine temperature (i.e., on the gauge)?  If it is gauge that is reading this high, it is possible that the gauge may not be accurate.  I suggest verifying that the coolant is at the same temperature as (or close to) the gauge.  I checked my car using a cooking thermometer in the radiator neck (didn't open hot), but watched it until the thermostat opened and then waited until the radiator stabilized.  My gauge was in fact reading correctly and my engine was running hot (220 -230) in traffic.  I took a guess that my thermostat and engine were not the problem; so I changed the clutch on the fan.  I already had a fan shroud.  The temperature now rises to about 190 on the gauge (it is 180 with the thermometer), even when it is 95 F outside and 90% humidity.  My guess is that yours should behave the same way.  I think I bought a heavy duty fan clutch like the one that came with the car, but I have also heard that there is a jaguar version that is thinner and also works - to find this you need to do some internet searching, but clutch fan + 440 + jaguar seems to work.    I think people use these thin fans when they have different radiators.  If you can rule out the fan clutch, and shroud, then others on here can help with this.  The bottom line is that I think it should run cooler than 230 in traffic.

Leaks on headers: Some types of header gaskets are notorious for leaks.  I tried a number (including having copper gaskets installed by the people who installed my engine) and had leaks until I swapped to a crushable aluminum gasket.  I used Percy's, but there are other crushable aluminum (I just did a lead/wire thing here.  that is aluminium   - my leads question was for my clarification though - most probably already knew).  On some other threads people have listed some other gaskets that they report work as well and are less expensive.  I have had some difficulty searching with the search box on the site, but have found I can search for terms using google and including dodgecharger with the search.

To clarify, the boots haven't touched as of yet from what I can see.  They do move though with the car vibration.  They are close, but I don't see any melting. 

I think ideally I would have a combination of straight, angled, and 90 degrees.  But with good routing / tying / heat shields I'm still warming to using 90 degrees....


Sorry, when I said engine temp I was talking about the water temp gauge.  I don't seem to have an oil temp gauge hooked up.  Maybe it could be the thermostat after all?  I wasn't aware of a clutch on the fan.. will have to do some reading.  Do you think the thermostat is first thing to check?

I definitely need it cooler though... it loses power for sure and oil pressure drops uncomfortably (less than 10 psi per 1000 rpm at low rev)

I just found some old packaging and I have Percy's Seal-4-Good ally gaskets.  Right now I don't think I have any evidence of leaky gaskets.  I had a lot before, maybe I used cheaper gaskets before - don't remember.


Thanks again for your help

[XH29N0G]

I meant water temperature.  You may, or may not have a fan clutch.  My car did so I assumed yours did too.  They are supposed to let the fan spin at a slower rate than the engine.  My old one had very little resistance.  the new one spins, but there is a definite drag from the fluids (oils?) inside the clutch assembly.

Check with others on the oil pressure.