QA1 front suspension kit

[c00nhunterjoe]

That tubular front end means jack squat unless you fully modify the remainder of the car. Frame ties, torque boxes, roll cage... at minimum. And the qa1 setup is virtually the same weight as the stock kframe. Unless you are building a dedicated autocross car, its a waste of your money. Even drag cars dont need or use it.... i watch stockers run 9s on stock parts amd superstock hemis deep into 8 second 1/4 miles on stock control arms and k frames.

[Derwud]

To much butt hurting going on here.. Either you want it or you don't.. I am build for future mods. So QA1 subframe and Lower arms with Hotchkis TVS kit including dual adjustable shocks and torsion bars.. I will be doing all the other boxing and bracing later.. Yes I am doing the Borgeson box as well..

Back on subject now...

[c00nhunterjoe]

To much butt hurting going on here.. Either you want it or you don't.. I am build for future mods. So QA1 subframe and Lower arms with Hotchkis TVS kit including dual adjustable shocks and torsion bars.. I will be doing all the other boxing and bracing later.. Yes I am doing the Borgeson box as well..

Back on subject now...

Viper sized brakes? Shock tower braces? Core support? Cage? Rear frame supports. Panhard bar? Frame connectors? Start making the list,  it will get long quick.

[NitroNeal]

Enjoy your Charger more than "all y'all?" Just WTF does that mean?  Don't presume to think you know what I do with my car or what my plans with it are.  I chose the stock K over the other options; doesn't make it the lesser choice than yours....

Yep, soon as I posted that I knew someone would take it out of context. These cars and their parts are so crazy expensive any more it takes a hell of a comitment and a pile of money to own and fix one up. For what it takes to do one really nice you can go but a new scat pack. So you must be commited to the genre of these type muscle cars. What I meant was kind of a yee haw remark of how much I look forward to getting it done and driving/enjoying it. I had one as a daily driver 35 years ago. 250,000 miles in the midwest I rusted it out from under me. Life and family happened. Been stair stepping through cars and projects for years to get to the point I can afford this. You build you car your way, I build my car my way, maybe we meet in the middle? Other people build theirs in ways I don't like, doesn't mean I can't appreciate what they did. Kinda thought what this deal was all about.       So......to answer your question, that's "WTF" I was getting at.
Neal.

[redmist]

I have the QA1 K member, QA1 Upper control arms, Hotchkis Shocks, Strut rods, 1.10 torsion bars, and frame connectors....

The QA1 K member is to me worth the money for the room around the engine alone! I can get to so much more now with the QA1 K then I ever could with the stock stamped, and half crap welded factory K member. could I have stripped, notched, welded, and used the factory K??? Yes. Is it worth my time to do that? Not mine nope. The lower arm mounting points alone are light years ahead of the factory K. The steering box mounting point is light years better then the factory K.


I see two points on this unit that are a little worry some, and that is the mounting ears for the strut rods, and the through bolt design that relies on clamping force to locate. I may drill the front sub-frame and weld location dowels on the unit if it starts to be a problem.

Overall I see it as a very nice piece over the mostly unknown quality of the factory K frames. I was amazed at how crappy the welding was on my factory K member.

[Kern Dog]

Yeah... The "crappy" original parts only lasted 47 years.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I have heard from several people that one of the main bonuses is all of the extra needed access room that you dont have with the stock kframe. So just what exactly cant you access?  the pan drops right down, steering isnt in the way, ive never had a header problem with the kframe, power steering, oil pumps, even low mount alternators... sooo....?

[Kern Dog]

Yeah, what gains are so great that a competent mechanic can't reach with the stock K member? Are these guys so jazzed to run a chevy style rear sump oil pan ? The whole thing about " Easy suspension tuning" with coil overs makes no sense to me either. T bars allow easy height changes. Don't like the shocks? That is a easy fix for FAR less money too.

[Derwud]

No one is talking about a coil over suspension, just about QA1 suspension using Torsion bars. Chrysler had a better design all those years ago, but the industry has totally rethought how suspension and steering work. No reason to stay in the 70's if you can get new stuff.

[c00nhunterjoe]

No one is talking about a coil over suspension, just about QA1 suspension using Torsion bars. Chrysler had a better design all those years ago, but the industry has totally rethought how suspension and steering work. No reason to stay in the 70's if you can get new stuff.

That didnt even begin to address my question.....

[Derwud]

No one is talking about a coil over suspension, just about QA1 suspension using Torsion bars. Chrysler had a better design all those years ago, but the industry has totally rethought how suspension and steering work. No reason to stay in the 70's if you can get new stuff.

That didnt even begin to address my question.....

What is your question? To me it is building block, to better handling car. I could sell my stock for what the QA1 subframe, add the stronger, lighter lower arms, all bonuses..

[Kern Dog]

Maybe I look like a dinosaur to some people...I just prefer the rugged and robust features that the stock k member has. I am not against using beefed up lower control arms, aftermarket upper control arms, stock or dropped spindles. I like the Borgeson steering box in theory, (Never tried one) I like larger torsion bars, larger anti sway bars, better shocks, aftermarket strut rods, etc.
The stock based stuff works for me for far less money than any replacement K member or coli over setup. I have adequate header clearance and can remove the oil pan without lifting the engine. My engine is reliable enough where that isn't really an issue...

[Derwud]

Maybe I look like a dinosaur to some people...I just prefer the rugged and robust features that the stock k member has. I am not against using beefed up lower control arms, aftermarket upper control arms, stock or dropped spindles. I like the Borgeson steering box in theory, (Never tried one) I like larger torsion bars, larger anti sway bars, better shocks, aftermarket strut rods, etc.
The stock based stuff works for me for far less money than any replacement K member or coli over setup. I have adequate header clearance and can remove the oil pan without lifting the engine. My engine is reliable enough where that isn't really an issue...

Clearance issues were not a consideration for me. I couldn't see trusting my suspension to someone who is not an engineer and is only trying to put lipstick on a pig. That is why I like the Hotchkis or QA1 stuff, adding horns to the bull.

[garner7555]

I have heard from several people that one of the main bonuses is all of the extra needed access room that you dont have with the stock kframe. So just what exactly cant you access?  the pan drops right down, steering isnt in the way, ive never had a header problem with the kframe, power steering, oil pumps, even low mount alternators... sooo....?

Taking off the oil filter will probably be the only way I take advantage of the "more room".   What I mean is oil won't run all over the K member because there is open space under it.       I do think that there are a few advantages of the K member, but I will admit that one of the things I like is that it looks cool and matches the pro touring theme on my car.  Plus it didn't cost much more (if I value my time) than blasting, welding seams, building braces & welding them in, and finally powder coating the factory K member.         Like I said, side by side I do see some advantages of the QA1 K member (mounts for lower control arm, ect.) but I will also admit that it looks cool and that played into my decision too.      

[fy469rtse]

I don't think the stock K frame gets in the way of headers,
Mine is fully welded an gussets to areas around steering box flex to k frame , k frame also internally braced between skins,
I think that's taken care of any need to go aftermarket,
Like to keep mine as stock looking as possible as well,
Frame connectors , torque box's , braced rear housing, only because of HP , how far do you really need to go,
Muscle car from the 60's, now drives and handles like the image ,
There's a few other bits and pieces added ,
Like cop steering box fast ratio
Firmfeel drag links, or radious rods , only if you want a good 4 wheel alignment,
Bigger brakes coming next, everything added like frame connectors made to look like they were installed by factory

[c00nhunterjoe]

No one is talking about a coil over suspension, just about QA1 suspension using Torsion bars. Chrysler had a better design all those years ago, but the industry has totally rethought how suspension and steering work. No reason to stay in the 70's if you can get new stuff.

That didnt even begin to address my question.....

What is your question? To me it is building block, to better handling car. I could sell my stock for what the QA1 subframe, add the stronger, lighter lower arms, all bonuses..

Firmfeel will fully weld, blast, strip, reinforce and plate your stock frame for less then the qa1 unit. There are no weight savings stock vs qa1.  All of the lightweight lower arms and other amenities you describe will bolt right onto the stock unit.

[Derwud]

No one is talking about a coil over suspension, just about QA1 suspension using Torsion bars. Chrysler had a better design all those years ago, but the industry has totally rethought how suspension and steering work. No reason to stay in the 70's if you can get new stuff.

That didnt even begin to address my question.....

What is your question? To me it is building block, to better handling car. I could sell my stock for what the QA1 subframe, add the stronger, lighter lower arms, all bonuses..

Firmfeel will fully weld, blast, strip, reinforce and plate your stock frame for less then the qa1 unit. There are no weight savings stock vs qa1.  All of the lightweight lower arms and other amenities you describe will bolt right onto the stock unit.

I will have to check real weights, cause I have held both in my hand and I could swear the QA1 is lighter. And the price difference is not that great between a Firm Feel "fixed" factory part vs QA1 part.

But mostly, why are we arguing this. You like the stock parts, which I like, but I wanted something different..

[c00nhunterjoe]

Its hard to tell an arguement vs a debate at times. I am in no way arguing nor trying to say the qa1 frame is junk.
    I am saying that it is a matter of want, vs actual need as you yourself just pointed out. On a street or even mildly raced car, i have yet to see any actual evidence as to why the qa1 kframe is needed or a cost savings.
    The qa1 frame is built to be direct replacement for the stock kframe which means it has the same geometry as the stock part. The origonal qa1 was lighter but was found to fail so after modifying it weighs the same (or damn near) as the stock one. The weight savings by moving the battery to the trunk would be more cost effective then buying the new frame.
    As far as headers go, just about anything out there will fit without problems caused by the kframe. Starters are the biggest problem which qa1 cannot address with their product.
   It comes down to the bmw clause in most cases- "look at me, ive got a tubular k frame" and that is fine, if you want to buy one, great go for it. But dont think its a must to make your car awesome.

[HPP]

IMO, a lot of this all falls into the nice to have category. But to be honest, so does a 292*/590 cam shaft topped by a high rise single plane and a 1000cfm carb.  Neither are well suited to optimize street life for the application the vast majority of these cars are used for. Just because some people want to use them in a street car, it makes them feel good about ownership, and they actually drive the car, why yank their chain about it.

On the flip side, there can be some very distinct advantages to using some of these parts when the car is used in specific applications. A 4000 stall convertor isn't the most street friendly item, but if you are bracket racing it regularly, it is a huge benefit. Swapping K frames for improved rigidity at reduced weight, again, a potential benefit that some may want. Is choosing this any different than choosing to use a carbon fiber gauge set? Its small potatoes in the overall scheme, but it is still an improvement. What about a $1500 lightweight forged racing wheel that saves 3 pounds over a similar $300 cast wheel? where do we draw the line? We can't because each of our needs, budgets, and choices are different.

There are plenty of areas in these cars that provide a poor return on price for the benefits they provide. I'm always surprised at how suspension and chassis part choices get beat up  while some think nothing of using the same approach with engine or drive line decisions.

[garner7555]

IMO, a lot of this all falls into the nice to have category. But to be honest, so does a 292*/590 cam shaft topped by a high rise single plane and a 1000cfm carb.  Neither are well suited to optimize street life for the application the vast majority of these cars are used for. Just because some people want to use them in a street car, it makes them feel good about ownership, and they actually drive the car, why yank their chain about it.

On the flip side, there can be some very distinct advantages to using some of these parts when the car is used in specific applications. A 4000 stall convertor isn't the most street friendly item, but if you are bracket racing it regularly, it is a huge benefit. Swapping K frames for improved rigidity at reduced weight, again, a potential benefit that some may want. Is choosing this any different than choosing to use a carbon fiber gauge set? Its small potatoes in the overall scheme, but it is still an improvement. What about a $1500 lightweight forged racing wheel that saves 3 pounds over a similar $300 cast wheel? where do we draw the line? We can't because each of our needs, budgets, and choices are different.

There are plenty of areas in these cars that provide a poor return on price for the benefits they provide. I'm always surprised at how suspension and chassis part choices get beat up  while some think nothing of using the same approach with engine or drive line decisions.

Very well said!         We all have different taste, even though we all love Chargers.

[Kern Dog]

I respect that some admit that the aftermarket stuff was bought because it is pretty or shiny. I bought the wheels that I have for the same reason! I just hope that those guys know what they are getting for their money.

[Mike DC]

here are plenty of areas in these cars that provide a poor return on price for the benefits they provide. I'm always surprised at how suspension and chassis part choices get beat up  while some think nothing of using the same approach with engine or drive line decisions.

It's the muscle car hobby.  We reject making sense almost on principle.  



Look at these two pics.  Same size (for the sake of argument) of Pro Street tires, two very different ways of making them fit.  One method just hacks the quarter skins & outer wheelhousings, preserving the frame, floor, axle, rear suspension, etc.  The other way literally saws out the rear half of the chassis & tosses everything in the dumpster.  

We call the second method the "professional" way to "do it right".  

We call the first method "butchering up a good car just to fit some tires."    

[NitroNeal]

WOW, did this thread go around the world. I started it looking for some input from somebody actually owning and driving  a complete QA1 setup hopefully with the borgeson box. Haven't really seen that yet. Got lots of opinions, even got a WTF from one guy. Guess I just need to get mine  together and report back.

[Derwud]

WOW, did this thread go around the world. I started it looking for some input from somebody actually owning and driving  a complete QA1 setup hopefully with the borgeson box. Haven't really seen that yet. Got lots of opinions, even got a WTF from one guy. Guess I just need to get mine  together and report back.

Basically... Good luck, I waiting for my Borgeson box so I can swap complete K members..

[HPP]

WOW, did this thread go around the world. I started it looking for some input from somebody actually owning and driving  a complete QA1 setup hopefully with the borgeson box. Haven't really seen that yet. Got lots of opinions, even got a WTF from one guy. Guess I just need to get mine  together and report back.

There is a member on here that was involved of the development of the QA1 unit, has it in his car, and runs it hard. However, he does not get on here regularly. You might need to do some digging to find details from him on it, but there are some here. Screen name slips my mind right now.