QA1 front suspension kit

[NitroNeal]

Wondering if anyone has the complete kit in their car? I've done a couple Reilly and they work well, just a little to racey for long highway trips. Stock disc brakes will work fine for me. Also thinking about the borgeson p.s. box. Anybody driving this setup? Feedback would be great. Just went to Mats and only saw one aftermarket K frame (Hemi Dart).
Thanks, Neal.

[myk]

Check with member MSRacing89; he not only runs their stuff but road races his car, too...

[Derwud]

I bought a QA1 Subframe and lower arms, Borgenson Box and Hotchkis for everything else suspension wise. Can't wait to get it all together and feel the difference.

[crj1968]

Redmist has the whole setup in his car- I was able to check it out the other day and it looked REALLY nice.

Might hit him up and see what he has to say about it.

[MSRacing89]

Check with member MSRacing89; he not only runs their stuff but road races his car, too...

I helped with some of the initial R & D on this front end in partnership with QA1.  That being said I have the very first one to roll off the assembly line and a slightly modified one at that.  I altered the lower control hex position and shifted some other things around to my liking during the R & D process and gave QA1 that feedback.  This would be incorporated into what you receive.  You would get a fully developed, very nice product.

You will feel the difference instantly.......that being said, let me give you some pointers.  

Swap the large K-member mounting bolts they send you up to grade 8 and get some 1/8" washers for said bolts.  Grab your breaker bar and tighten those things as much as possible.  Now for the common guy this is overkill, but my tied down 600hp 440 would work the left rear bolt just slightly loose on a heavy autocross or road course outing.  

Don't be afraid to experiment with caster settings.  If you run factory settings initially, great, but most likely the car will want something that will be unusual.  Now I run 285's on the front, quick ratio arms, with aggressive suspension so mine is amplified.  For example we run almost a 2º of caster split with 3º of camber on race day.  Slightly less aggressive for street use, but we still run about 1½º caster split to keep me from fighting the car.  

Hold the motor up with a pick, unbolt your PS box and tie up, get under there and bolt it up!  Took my buddies and I about 2hrs.  

[Mike DC]

I've done a couple Reilly and they work well, just a little to racey for long highway trips

I'm curious about what your specific objection is here.  


The RMS setups don't have rubber bushings IIRC.    

[NitroNeal]

Shopped around and they've come out with a complete kit. Summit has them "on sale" seemed like the thing to do, so I pulled the trigger on the whole shebang. Now if I can find a half price sale on a borgeson box.

[myk]

Shopped around and they've come out with a complete kit. Summit has them "on sale" seemed like the thing to do, so I pulled the trigger on the whole shebang. Now if I can find a half price sale on a borgeson box.

I've been WAITING for Bergman to offer some sort of discount on their conversion kit.  When and if they do I'll buy it for sure.  Maybe we should get a group buy going?

[NitroNeal]

Group buy on borgeson box? I could be up for that. I've seen it happen on forums before. Never been in on one. How does it work so nobody gets hosed?

[garner7555]

I bought the borgeson box at Summit for less than 600.  It is on back order though.

[71charger_fan]

I bought the whole setup back when they were still made by CAP.

[NitroNeal]

I bought the borgeson box at Summit for less than 600.  It is on back order though.

Yes, I see them down to 589. from 650.

I bought the whole setup back when they were still made by CAP.

So how do you like it?

I've done a couple Reilly and they work well, just a little to racey for long highway trips

I'm curious about what your specific objection is here. 


The RMS setups don't have rubber bushings IIRC.   

Little too choppy of a ride, must admit it has pretty low profile tires that don't help the ride. Going with 15" magnums on my Charger, 245/60 front,275/60 rears.

[myk]

Group buy on borgeson box? I could be up for that. I've seen it happen on forums before. Never been in on one. How does it work so nobody gets hosed?

We'd have to contact Bergman Auto craft and propose the idea.  They'd come up with a discounted price, and then tell us how many people would have to buy it in order to qualify for the discount.  The trick is they'd have to come up with a price we actually like, and then everyone who agrees has to actually pay.  If buyers fall through no one loses anything or gets hosed; the discounted price just wouldn't go through.  I'm not sure how many of us are actually willing to buy the Borgeson box, though...

[Derwud]

I have to call them about my unit. I will ask him about a group buy..

[myk]

I have to call them about my unit. I will ask him about a group buy..

Right on man, thanks...

[71charger_fan]

Had to get pads welded on to the CAP unit for sway bar bushings and it cracked at the steering box mount and I had to get that repaired. I wouldn't hesitate to buy the QA1 piece as they've had years to update the piece and address early issues. I almost bought a QA1 to replace the CAP, but it was coming out for a repaint and it was easily repaired so I thought buying a new one unnecessary.

[Derwud]

E-Mail sent.

[Mike DC]

I don't see the benefit of using these aftermarket K-frame & LCA's compared to stock.  

If you take any real weight off the factory design then it reduces the streetability of it.  No amount of tubing alloys or strong welds in the QA1 stuff is going to make up for physically smaller pieces, not when it comes to stiffness.  The durability & crashworthiness of the QA1 stuff is probably worse than stock too. 

Somebody on another thread said that the QA1 version had to be somewhat beefed up for durability (read: heavier) compared to the original CAP versions.  How much weight does it really save now? 



The biggest source of weight that the original front end can afford to lose (without compromising streetability) is the factory steering box & linkage.  I'm not a big cheerleader for the RMS setup but at least it converts to a Mustang rack.  

[ws23rt]

I don't see the benefit of using these aftermarket K-frame & LCA's compared to stock.  

If you take any real weight off the factory design then it reduces the streetability of it.  No amount of tubing alloys or strong welds in the QA1 stuff is going to make up for physically smaller pieces, not when it comes to stiffness.  The durability & crashworthiness of the QA1 stuff is probably worse than stock too. 

Somebody on another thread said that the QA1 version had to be somewhat beefed up for durability (read: heavier) compared to the original CAP versions.  How much weight does it really save now? 



This makes a lot of practical sense to me. If weight reduction is the intent for a street driven car it would be a waste of time and money.

If one want's to turn one of these 45 year old cars into what we have come to feel and trust as the current norm for a muscle car refer to this.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,101925.1375.html

When one part or system is upgraded 30-40 years it tends to expose all the other systems as being weak links. I know it is fun to add and improve to what we have but putting a rolex watch band on a timax could be money and time tossed for little gain.

[myk]

My understanding is that the aftermarket K frames allow more options with exhaust and suspension modifications.  I never factored weight savings into K frames...

[NitroNeal]

MikeDC, some major things for me is 3* more caster than the stock stuff ever hoped for, the attach points for the lca's is way stronger "a known weak link", the articulating strut rods are like the diff between a model t and the space shuttle. You can get any part of it in pairs and use whatever you think would help, or buy the whole shebang. Lose a little weight in the process? Suits me. The congenitle cap quality problems described above seem to be taken care of. Strength? Watch Hemi cars pull mondo wheelies time after time with these setups. To each his own, you asked, just my .02 .

[Kern Dog]

I hear TWO specific advantages when swapping to these aftermarket K members.

Better exhaust clearance.
Better steering response.

Okay, lets spend $5000 on a replacement crossmember  and steering rack instead of $800 for TTI headers and $850 for a Borgeson steering box. The math doesn't lie. The aftermarket setups are not a wise choice economically.

Andy Finkbeiner is responsible for the development of Tim Werners former car, a bad ass red 68 Valiant road course car with factory based suspension. Rick Ehrenbergs "Green Brick" sure didn't need an RMS setup to beat every car that it embarrassed.

These kits are for guys that want something shiny and new. They do not offer any clear advantage over a well built stock based suspension and steering arrangement. The aftermarket stuff is surely less durable, just look at it.

[Mike DC]

  
Kern Dog nailed what I was getting at.  The aftermarket stuff isn't BAD but I feel the benefits are overrated.  


Similar-to-stock aftermarket front ends offer bigger gains on GM & Ford stuff, where the OEM setup was not as well done as on Mopars.  I'm not saying there are NO gains possible on Mopars, I'm just saying the GM/Ford crowd has a lot more low-hanging fruit to pick than we do.    

The Mopar T-bar setup is quirky and not easy to modify.  But its strong points really are good.  Downright awesome for something designed 50 years ago.  

[NitroNeal]

I hear TWO specific advantages when swapping to these aftermarket K members.

Better exhaust clearance.
Better steering response.

Okay, lets spend $5000 on a replacement crossmember  and steering rack instead of $800 for TTI headers and $850 for a Borgeson steering box. The math doesn't lie. The aftermarket setups are not a wise choice economically.

Andy Finkbeiner is responsible for the development of Tim Werners former car, a bad ass red 68 Valiant road course car with factory based suspension. Rick Ehrenbergs "Green Brick" sure didn't need an RMS setup to beat every car that it embarrassed.


$5,000???  RMS isn't nearly that much. I spent $2177 to my door for the whole handling kit w/ k frame from QA1 w/ single adjust shocks. When we're all done I guess we can line em up and run em thru the cones and see what happens??  Hay, If your set up makes you happy, that's all that counts. I fully intend to enjoy my Charger more than all ya'll put together. I hope you do the same.
Neal. 
These kits are for guys that want something shiny and new. They do not offer any clear advantage over a well built stock based suspension and steering arrangement. The aftermarket stuff is surely less durable, just look at it.

[myk]

Enjoy your Charger more than "all y'all?" Just WTF does that mean?  Don't presume to think you know what I do with my car or what my plans with it are.  I chose the stock K over the other options; doesn't make it the lesser choice than yours....