Camber and castor adjustments

[redgum78]

Anyone had experience with castor adjustment on a 73 Charger? The UCA pivot is mounted via 2 bolts that sit in slotted holes for adjustment. Somewhat different to my E body and earlier B bodies. It looks like it might allow for more adjustment than the cam style adjusters???

I am hoping to obtain 4 or 5 degrees positive castor and still get negative 1 degree camber. Can anyone tell me if I am likely to achieve this with the standard set up?

Also has anyone got a simple method for checking castor at home? I have a camber bubble gauge but no caster bubble on it. Apparently it can still be done using math..... any one got a formula or some other bullet proof method for home?

Thanks

[redgum78]

So I had an attempt today. New upper and lower control arm bushes fitted. Ride height adjusted.

I then adjusted the rear end of the UCA all the way in (towards the engine) and the front of the UCU all the way out for max positive castor. I then moved the front of the UCA inwards until I got negative 0.8 camber on both side.

Tow was fairly close so I took a test drive. Slight pull to the left. Reduced castor a little on the left side a and corrected the camber back to neg 0.8. 
Did this several times until it sat dead centre on the road. Re-checked camber-still neg 0.8 both sides.

I still need to double check the toe tomorrow.

I did the castor via trial and error and test driving as I do not have a bubble gauge for castor or turn plates.
Not perfect but I think I have max castor (and fairly even on each side) as possible while maintaining reasonable negative camber.

Any thoughts or feedback. Could it be done any better with basic tools?

Cheers

Dan

[HPP]

Lacking a gauge, that is the best approach to doing it and ultimately, it is as much as your going to get.

You can always try to find a free alignment app for your phone and use it as a gauge.

[myk]

I'm not trying to burst the DIY bubble here, but why not just have it professionally aligned?

[mopar0166]

I cant even believe the amount of money I pissed away on getting "professional" alignments done. 

[redgum78]

I'm not trying to burst the DIY bubble here, but why not just have it professionally aligned?

I did. When I asked him what he set the camber and castor to he told me they were not adjustable. He also had trouble setting the toe due to flogged out control arm bushes. That's when I decided to put in new bushes and try it myself.

[redgum78]

Lacking a gauge, that is the best approach to doing it and ultimately, it is as much as your going to get.

You can always try to find a free alignment app for your phone and use it as a gauge.

Thanks HPP. Any recommendations on an Android app that might be ok? I had a quick look on Google play but most seem to be maintenance reminder apps.

[Kern Dog]

It sounds like the alignment guy was a no-talent assclown.
You set up the car the same way that I do for the baseline setting. Then I take my cars to a shop that I trust.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I will set it up on my rack for 99.95. Dimensions of your choice. (Or whatever the max your car allows)

[out there]

I just had my 69 Aligned and they did a fantastic job. I've know the show for years and they have the latest equipment. It took them 2 hours because everything was off. My large cubic inch motor was an issue also but no problem. The manager did my alignments 20 years ago and was excellent so I knew it would go well.
$89. Tracks very nicely now also  

[redgum78]

I will set it up on my rack for 99.95. Dimensions of your choice. (Or whatever the max your car allows)

That's what I need. Someone that knows what they are doing and is happy to dial in my numbers now that I have roughed it in.

I rekon you might be a bit too far away for me c00nhunterjoe. I am guessing you are in the USA somewhere? I am the wrong hemisphere in Australia. I might see who else is around my town that is willing to work with me. Surly there is someone that at least knows that the camber and castor are adjustable!

[redgum78]

It sounds like the alignment guy was a no-talent assclown.
You set up the car the same way that I do for the baseline setting. Then I take my cars to a shop that I trust.

He was a nice enough bloke, just didn't know what he was doing or much about older cars.
On the bright side it made me learn a bit more about alignments. My trade is heavy truck (semi) mechanics so I never really got into the whole camber/castor thing. Most trucks are fixed requiring toe adjustment only unless they are in a crash.

[Kern Dog]

My large cubic inch motor was an issue also but no problem. The manager did my alignments 20 years ago and was excellent so I knew it would go well.
$89. Tracks very nicely now also  

Engine size makes no difference to the alignment. This is like saying that my large johnson makes it difficult to buy shoes that fit.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Yeah, im in the US, i didnt realize you were in australia. Old mopars are aligned with the same techniques as chevy pickups from 99- present so if they cant line up your car, then they cant line up any car on the road..... which is probably true. From what ive seen around here, 99.9% of shops only know how to set toe, and they are watching for the number on the screen to turn green, they have no clue what they are actually looking at.

[myk]

Yeah, im in the US, i didnt realize you were in australia. Old mopars are aligned with the same techniques as chevy pickups from 99- present so if they cant line up your car, then they cant line up any car on the road..... which is probably true. From what ive seen around here, 99.9% of shops only know how to set toe, and they are watching for the number on the screen to turn green, they have no clue what they are actually looking at.

Excellent point.  The shop I took the Charger to doesn't even use computers; it's all done by tools, bubbles, etc.  In other words, old school alignment techniques for old school cars...

[c00nhunterjoe]

We are primarily modern cars. You honestly cant make money on old cars, but we will do some work every now and then on customers classic cars. That said, my machine is old, antique... a dinosaur if you will, but that means nothing. The numbers dont change. The theory is always the same. The only difference between my machine and a brand new one is about 30,000 dollars and 300 pounds.

[chargerbr549]

Yeah, im in the US, i didnt realize you were in australia. Old mopars are aligned with the same techniques as chevy pickups from 99- present so if they cant line up your car, then they cant line up any car on the road..... which is probably true. From what ive seen around here, 99.9% of shops only know how to set toe, and they are watching for the number on the screen to turn green, they have no clue what they are actually looking at.

A friend of mine I work with used to do front end alignments when he lived out in SoCal and the phrase that he would use when talking about that shop was, "Set the toe and go" they didn't want him to spend very much time on alignments unless there was an obvious tire wear problem on one side or the other. They weren't necessarily concerned about how it tracked down the road along as it wasn't wearing tires.

[out there]

My large cubic inch motor was an issue also but no problem. The manager did my alignments 20 years ago and was excellent so I knew it would go well.
$89. Tracks very nicely now also  

Engine size makes no difference to the alignment. This is like saying that my large johnson makes it difficult to buy shoes that fit.

Engine size does make a difference when it is the way of making some of the adjustments. Great analogy if you were correct   

[HPP]

Could you expand on what exactly needed to be done to accommodate your big inch  engine?

I agree with kerndog. I've not seen a big block make a difference in alignment. Similarly, there a not big block or small block specs in the factory manuals. Now I will conceed that a nose heavy big block car will handle differently and they may drive a different selection of components than a small block, but setting the angles that compromise alignment would all be the same.

[b5blue]

  I bought a bubble alignment tool and a set of steel turn pads. After swapping to disks and installing adjustable struts/UCA's with staggered off set bushings I wanted to fiddle with settings. I'll be monkeying around more this year so it's money well spent. After getting use to whats going on I got the car close enough that it's driving pretty good.
 Ideal settings have changed from the early 70's, radial tires were new then. I had both good and really bad experiences with alignments. You need to ask around to find a shop that knows how and what to do. Try asking places that restore old cars around you.    

[out there]

Could you expand on what exactly needed to be done to accommodate your big inch  engine?

I agree with kerndog. I've not seen a big block make a difference in alignment. Similarly, there a not big block or small block specs in the factory manuals. Now I will conceed that a nose heavy big block car will handle differently and they may drive a different selection of components than a small block, but setting the angles that compromise alignment would all be the same.

I'll try to explain this better. If the motor is physically in front of the adjustment for either castor or camber, I don't recall which it was, then it does affect it. Only because you can't get to the adjustment to change it . That is, if it needs to be changed and can't be. The settings themselves would not change due to a larger engine.

The shop worked on it for about two hours and changed quite a bit to get it very close to factory spec. It was way out to start. They worked around not being able to get to the one adjustment. It was on one side only and the setting could not be changed because there was no room to get to it. I stood there while they were doing it and saw it.

I would post another pic of how the 605 fills the engine compartment but since I posted it once, the site won't let me duplicate the pic?
The motor is also mounted 2" off center to the pass side to make it fit. They took that into account and the setting may or may not have been altered slightly
to account for that. According to the shop, an off center engine could affect how the car tracked.

I hope this clears up my comment. The settings would be the same for a small or large engine. However,  if a large engine is in the way of adjusting camber or castor then it has an effect on if it can be done correctly.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Outthere has a 605" hemi stuffed in a 69. While i dont understand why the engine had to be modified to fit, you can still align hemi cars. Period. Ive done it with headers, ive done it on altered wheel base cars.Yeah it sucks, but you make the tools to do the job. If they moved the cams and the numbers didnt change, something else is wrong. I doubt the hemi car was any worse then a 63 max wedge with 2 1/4" tubes and one through the fender.

[out there]

Well then they did not have the right tool. I don't think I could have done it with anything I have. Long story short, its done and very close to factory specs.
Was just making a comment about a good alignment shop and how they could handle a 69.
Not every build is the same   

[c00nhunterjoe]

Well then they did not have the right tool. I don't think I could have done it with anything I have. Long story short, its done and very close to factory specs.
Was just making a comment about a good alignment shop and how they could handle a 69.
Not every build is the same   

I recall your topic about your engine being customized to sit to one side. I dont recall why. Once customized, you cant buy the wrenches to get to the camber caster nuts, like your build, its cut and weld/bend time to make a wrench to fit your application. What really perplexed me was your comment about moving the adjust cams and the specs did not change at all. No matter how your car was assembled, when the cams move- the spindle moves- one cannot happen without the other.

[out there]

Well then they did not have the right tool. I don't think I could have done it with anything I have. Long story short, its done and very close to factory specs.
Was just making a comment about a good alignment shop and how they could handle a 69.
Not every build is the same   

I recall your topic about your engine being customized to sit to one side. I dont recall why. Once customized, you cant buy the wrenches to get to the camber caster nuts, like your build, its cut and weld/bend time to make a wrench to fit your application. What really perplexed me was your comment about moving the adjust cams and the specs did not change at all. No matter how your car was assembled, when the cams move- the spindle moves- one cannot happen without the other.

I understand what you are saying but I don't understand why we are talking about it. My car is aligned fine with no issues. I am not an alignment tech, never claimed to be. I somewhat watched what they did and saw the effect it had on the #s in the system for a 69. They are excellent and got it right. I've known them for years and they know alignments. Must have been another installation thread about a 605 being off center I have not posted about this one.

I do appreciate you trying to help, if that is the case. Right on with the custom wrench idea.