Hlpag 500?

[69_500]

Anyone recall HLPAG in the Chicago area having a 500? I thought they only dealt in crappy replicas of the General Lee? Just talked to a guy saying he bought his 500 from Hans not too long ago.

He was told the car appraised at $170,000.    I told him no way, considering it's a 440 car.

Corndog, and I were talking about this car on Facebook the other day, until I was blocked from the post. I was blocked for pointing out things on the car, and the claim it had 46 original miles.

[tan top]

  think  (Pocket thunder )  Pauls  old 69 C500 , was bought from hlpeg   was bronze with a tantop   ,  

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=68

that was a long time ago , cant really see hlpeg , having another C500 

[chicago mopars]

I sold my 1969 charger 500 to hlpag it's the one claiming to be the one in the photo at Mr Norms. When I bought the car it was really rough the front frame rails and torsion bar frame were rotted along with the front fenders and the floor from the firewall to the back seat. The hood had a hole cut in it for the air cleaner to stick up thru, grille bumper and front valance bent up. The motor was lock up and missing parts ,4 speed transmission was stolen out of the car long before I bought it and the Dana rear end had the outer bearing ground down to nothing ruining the outer flange on the housing .I'm not trying to start anything on here just telling you some history about the car and how the car looked when I pulled it out of its long time storage.

[tan top]

I sold my 1969 charger 500 to hlpag it's the one claiming to be the one in the photo at Mr Norms. When I bought the car it was really rough the front frame rails and torsion bar frame were rotted along with the front fenders and the floor from the firewall to the back seat. The hood had a hole cut in it for the air cleaner to stick up thru, grille bumper and front valance bent up. The motor was lock up and missing parts ,4 speed transmission was stolen out of the car long before I bought it and the Dana rear end had the outer bearing ground down to nothing ruining the outer flange on the housing .I'm not trying to start anything on here just telling you some history about the car and how the car looked when I pulled it out of its long time storage.

Hello & welcome          thanks for sharing your story  ,  would love to see some pictures if you have any , sometime .

( EDIT )    just seen your a long time member   ,     can you see your vin in the charger 500 registry

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nOP_jm5OHD6FTiF2e4S83W0Lc55cVFCds3fiwwBsE-g/edit

[chicago mopars]

I might still have some of the car (not sure) they were taken with a old type throw away camera from Walgreens. Also I'm not a computer guy this is my first time posting kinda surprised it even worked

[wyliemn71]

hlpag had a 69 500 that was on ebay long ago, I had the winning bid and went to pick it up and was not as "honest hans" had described many missing parts and wrong parts, I left the car there and shortly after that it came to live with Paul in MN

[moparstuart]

yup paul got it and put a slant 6 in it   

[chaaargerb]

The 500 that Paul had (Tan on Tan) was my car and I did sell it to hlpag. The Blue 440 4 speed 410 car (AKA MR Norns car) was my neighbors car . He lived about 3 blocks away from me. It was pretty cool having 2 500's that close. When my neighbor decided to sell the blue car I looked it over and having a 500 already and seeing how bad the car got from sitting so long I ended up passing the car on to "Chicago Mopars". He had the car for sometime and hlpag ended buying that one too. If I remember right the blue car (AKA MR Norns car)ended up getting painted red and I think ended up in Arizona.

So I can confirm that hlpag has had at least 2 500's:
My old tan on tan car (AKA Paul's /6 Car) and Chicago Mopars blue 440 4 speed 410 car (AKA MR Norns car)

[fc7_plumcrazy]

any pics of the B7 blue 500?
Despite the well known MrNorms pic.

Carsten

[chicago mopars]

The charger 500 that they are saying is the one in the Mr Norms picture is the one that I sold to hlpag it is a B5 blue car. The one in the picture looks B7 blue to me also. IMO not the same car.

[wingcarenvy]

"corndog" here is restoring the B5 turned red that might be the Mr.Norms car.

[tan top]

this is interesting  stuff ,  

I would not take anything hlpeg says seriously  , with out authenticated documentation ! for the last 5 years ! it seems almost every  68 & 69  440 R/T charger   they have ,  is a Mr Norms car  , according to that mob  ,  

[500Jon]

My C500 is a Norm car too...
Thats what the seller told me?
Seems he sold All the C500's...
Must of had a branch in Florida no one knew about lol?

Nice to have that kinda history, but hey its a C500, its history enuff!!!

5J

[fc7_plumcrazy]

just ask GG.
he is supposed to have the shipping list for all 500s so he knows who the selling dealer was back in the day

Carsten

[A383Wing]

just ask GG.
he is supposed to have the shipping list for all 500s so he knows who the selling dealer was back in the day

Carsten

you have to pay him for the info, even then he may not give it to you

[tan top]

just ask GG.
he is supposed to have the shipping list for all 500s so he knows who the selling dealer was back in the day

Carsten

you have to pay him for the info, even then he may not give it to you

yeah
, think he  should publish all the info / Chrysler paper work / documents  he has FOC ,  to the relevant websites / owner clubs etc ,  personally think its out of order holding on to this info ,  if I had such documentation , would be only too pleased to  post it all up here ,  on dc.com & winged warriors / NBOA sites   for fellow  mopar / charger brothers  to read study &  share etc  
 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

I do understand you guys but I am pretty sure he won't share it for free.

But if it is supposed to be a Mr Norms car and you got no other paperwork (windowsticker etc) than it is a chance to proove it

Carsten

[ws23rt]

I get the history of "Mr Norms" and kinda understand why some might value a cars connection to that dealership but he didn't make the cars. He was just the first owner after Dodge made them.
Is this something like owning a car that Elvis owned?

My question is not so much to make fun of us collectors but to point out that some odd and obscure things that are hard if not impossible to prove can push buyers and sellers around.

I can understand a survivor car with a Mr Norm's sticker on it as being of special interest. Or one with window sticker and build sheet. But as these cars rust away and are remade time and again somehow they lose so much originality that the selling dealer becomes moot.

I wonder if something like this has no value to either a buyer or a seller but both think it might to the other?  

[69_500]

To see if it is a Mr. norms car all one needs to do is contact Mr. Norms. They still have their paperwork.   Side note he is a very nice guy too.

[CornDogsCharger]

I'm sorry that I am just now jumping in on this conversation.  I do not get on here as often as I use to.   I spoke with "Chicago mopars" about the B5 500 that he mentions owning above. The car was sold to Hlpag, like he said, then later sold to someone in Arizona. I'm not sure who did the work to the car, but it was poorly done. My boss purchased the car from the man in Arizona and I restored it for him. The car was red when it came here to Mississippi. Prior to that, it was gold or copper... and then the original shade of B5 blue was under that. Someone installed a solid pair of front frame rails and torsion bar crossmember that was removed from another car. They also installed a solid front floor section from another car. The job was poorly done and I had to redo everything they did.  Luckily, when they did this, they transferred the original upper radiator support with the original VIN stamping, and it stayed with the car.  Before I even started the restoration on the car I started to do some research on the car's history.  I was told that the car was likely sold blue at Grand Spalding Dodge.  I contacted Larry at the Mr. Norm club and luckily, they still had all of the original paperwork from when the car was sold new. The car still has the original numbers matching block but as mentioned above the original transmission was no longer with the car.  Even though the engine had a fresh rebuild, it still seemed very weak. We took the engine apart and could see where it had a sleeve installed on one of the cylinders. We rebuilt it with all new parts as the other rebuild seemed very weak.  I finished the restoration in Aug 2015.

Justin
"CornDog"

[CornDogsCharger]

The 500 that Paul had (Tan on Tan) was my car and I did sell it to hlpag. The Blue 440 4 speed 410 car (AKA MR Norns car) was my neighbors car . He lived about 3 blocks away from me. It was pretty cool having 2 500's that close. When my neighbor decided to sell the blue car I looked it over and having a 500 already and seeing how bad the car got from sitting so long I ended up passing the car on to "Chicago Mopars". He had the car for sometime and hlpag ended buying that one too. If I remember right the blue car (AKA MR Norns car)ended up getting painted red and I think ended up in Arizona.

So I can confirm that hlpag has had at least 2 500's:
My old tan on tan car (AKA Paul's /6 Car) and Chicago Mopars blue 440 4 speed 410 car (AKA MR Norns car)

Chaaargerb - Can you recall what years this would have been, when your neighbor owned the car?  And where was this?  Even though I do not own the car, I still try to trace the history of it for the owner.  Thanks!

Justin
"CornDog"

[CornDogsCharger]

Here are three pieces of documentation that tie the car to Grand Spaulding Dodge.  The first is similar to a window sticker but is actually the give the weight of each item for transport reasons.  The second is the order form when someone at Grand Spaulding Dodge placed an order for the car.  The third is the actual folder that all documents were kept in.  What I find VERY interesting... the car was not purchased from Chrysler until July 25, 1969.  They kept it on their lot until April 27, 1970 when it was sold to Marie Rainey of Chicago.  On some of the paperwork, Marie Rainey signed... and on other paperwork, James D Rainey signed.  I'm not sure if they were husband/wife or mother/son.  Either way, I have yet to find either one.  I thought it would be cool to contact them, or their family, to see if they had any old photos of the car. 

Justin
"CornDog"

[CornDogsCharger]

Now, as for the car possibly being the same one in the famous photo... I don't think that anyone could ever confirm that it is or isn't.  All you can do is speculate.  But, think about it this way... Larry (at the Mr. Norms club) has said that this famous picture was taken in Oct. 1969.  Studying the long shadows, you can tell that the picture was taken in early morning or late afternoon... which would make the car appear darker than it really is.  There really is not a good, direct light on the car.  Since the car that I worked on did not sell until Apr. 1970, then it would have been on the lot at the same time the famous photo was taken.  If you look past the B5 or B7 debate, both cars have white stripes, wheel open moldings, red line tires, Road Wheels, headrests, and dark colored interior.  The two recent photos were taken within 30 seconds of each other and are unedited.  It just goes to show how much this color can flop from bright to dark.

Justin
"CornDog"

[chicago mopars]

Justin, as per our conversation over the phone when I got the car home I started disassembling the car to see how badly rusted the car got. After I removed the rusted front sheet metal I could get a better look at the front frame both frame rails & torsion bar frame were rusted even the control arms were rusted & weak. Then I move on to the floors also rusted front,rear,& under the rear seat. I remove the floor only to find out that the inner rockers were rotted & mice were living in them at some point. I cut a section of them out so I could get what I guess you would call a mouse nest out when it was all said & done I filled a five gallon bucket with the stuff & one dead mouse. As far as the rear of the car both quarter panels were rusted & full of body filler. The outer wheel wells & trunk extension were also rusted. The rear valance & corner pieces were moulded in to the quarters same with the quarter panel end caps. At that point hlpag contacted me about selling the car which I did. When I sold it to him I gave him a complete front frame section, two rust free fenders,hood,front valance,doors,and a floor pan all removed from a rust free Nevada car. I'm not sure after that if they welded it together & painted it red or if he sold it & the guy in Arizona did the work. Hope this helps you with some of its history

[CornDogsCharger]

Thank you for the comment!  Yes, I do remember you telling me most all of this over the phone.  I was actually trying to write everything down while I was talking with you.  I replaced all of the floor from the firewall all the way back to the rear bumper.  Surprisingly, besides pitting and a wrinkle from an accident, the trunk was actually solid.  I went ahead and replaced it though.  Chicago Mopars, when you purchased the car, was it still blue or had it been painted gold at that point?

Justin
"CornDog"

[chaaargerb]

Justin
The car was sitting in Trevor Wi.  It's a very small town on the Il./Wi. boarder. Dave was the guy's name and he told me he bought the car around 1976. I first heard about the car around 1985. When I first saw the car it was many different colors with bare metal, bondo and fiberglass exposed. I don't remember seeing any blue paint left on the outer body. The car at some point was painted with red oxide boat primer.

The one thing I remember about the car that I had never seen before was that the numbers matching motor had an assembly date after the fender tag build date.
I don't know if that was common on the special built cars ?     

[Homerr]

just ask GG.
he is supposed to have the shipping list for all 500s so he knows who the selling dealer was back in the day

Carsten

you have to pay him for the info, even then he may not give it to you

yeah
, think he  should publish all the info / Chrysler paper work / documents  he has FOC ,  to the relevant websites / owner clubs etc ,  personally think its out of order holding on to this info ,  if I had such documentation , would be only too pleased to  post it all up here ,  on dc.com & winged warriors / NBOA sites   for fellow  mopar / charger brothers  to read study &  share etc  
 

Amen.  I'm gonna go make a donation to Hamtramck-Historical, I use that site all the time.

[69_500]

Oddly enough I actually started this thread in reference to the 500 on Facebook that me and Justin were blocked from seeing.