Upgrading the steering

[phantom]

Anyone done this? As far as i can see, only Unisteer can provide "bolt-on" rack & pinion to our Mopars, for the cost of 1500 dollars. A quick search in this forum made me think twice about this kit, as almost everyone has had problems with fitting and other things.

So, should i just order original parts instead, for the fraction of the price? I have power steering, but i dont know if the steering box works or not.

How about the Fast ratio Pitman arm, anyone tried this? http://www.firmfeel.com/b_body_mopar_fast_ratio_pitman_idler_arm.html

I am not building an auto cross-machine, but i wouldnt hate a little quicker steering than stock. 

[garner7555]

The fast ratio kit would be great, but it doesn't allow room for headers.  There are a few members who have fit the fast ratio with headers but it is one of those just "try it and see deals".
If I were you I would look seriously at the Borgeson box, it gives you fast ratio, tight steering feel, and it is smaller and lighter than the factory box.  If you are interested in a factory box that has the stage 3 modification done to it then I have one on the shelf that has never been installed.  I was planning to use it on my charger but if I was to sell it then I would probably use a borgeson box.        

[myk]

What's your budget?  I get the feeling you don't want to go all-out with this, so I'd recommend the Firm Feel steering boxes; check out their website.  Ultimately, you have to consider budget and intended use of the car.  Personally, I'm going with the Borgeson Steering box, but the parts alone will set me back a little under a grand.  But, if you need the weight savings and the built in fast ratio, there's no other choice...

[phantom]

Whats left of my budget is around 20k, but i have final paint, all interior and wheels left to do also. As i said earlier, this car is not built to go fast around a track, its more of a show car, so it will be driven on regular roads only. I have to do something with my original steering, as my tie rods are worn out.

I'll check out the Borgeson box

Edit: Bummer you have to shorten the steering column to fit this box 

[JR]

If you're just gonna putt around car shows with it, a fresh front end rebuild and a stage 2 box from Frim Feel would be plenty.

But, simply replacing the worn front end components and returning it back to stock would even be a noticeable upgrade from where it is now.

If it's apart right, welding up/stiffening the LCAs and K member would help, and should give slightly better steering feel too.

On some headers, the fast ratio arms fit fine. I have stock HP manifolds on mine, and the idler arm doesnt clear because of how the exhaust guy ran the pipes. Im gonna have that corrected and the fast arms installed soon. The only way to know if theyll fit before you buy them, is to measure 1.25 inches or so (however much longer the fast ratio is) from the rear edge of your stock idler arm. If there's nothing in the way, itll probably clear fine. If your header is there, nope.

Oh, and either get the Moog offset upper control arm bushings($40), or adjustable tubular upper A arms($400). Youll be able to get more caster than stock, which will give you much better steering feel. The more caster you have, the more the wheels want to return straight when youre exiting a corner, and gives a car its "surefooted" feeling crusing down the highway.

Those combined should give you good/quick enough steering feel.

[phantom]

If you're just gonna putt around car shows with it, a fresh front end rebuild and a stage 2 box from Frim Feel would be plenty.

But, simply replacing the worn front end components and returning it back to stock would even be a noticeable upgrade from where it is now.

If it's apart right, welding up/stiffening the LCAs and K member would help, and should give slightly better steering feel too.

On some headers, the fast ratio arms fit fine. I have stock HP manifolds on mine, and the idler arm doesnt clear because of how the exhaust guy ran the pipes. Im gonna have that corrected and the fast arms installed soon. The only way to know if theyll fit before you buy them, is to measure 1.25 inches or so (however much longer the fast ratio is) from the rear edge of your stock idler arm. If there's nothing in the way, itll probably clear fine. If your header is there, nope.

Oh, and either get the Moog offset upper control arm bushings($40), or adjustable tubular upper A arms($400). Youll be able to get more caster than stock, which will give you much better steering feel. The more caster you have, the more the wheels want to return straight when youre exiting a corner, and gives a car its "surefooted" feeling crusing down the highway.

Those combined should give you good/quick enough steering feel.

I have these tubular upper arms from my Ridetech suspension: http://www.ridetech.com/store/1968-1974-dodge-e-and-b-body-strongarms-shockwave-front-upper.html

I have a motor for my car, a 440 with stock exhaust manifolds, but i am going for headers when the time comes to rebuild the engine. They have a list of which headers fit with the fast ratio pitman arm, so if i go for that arm, i'll just have to get headers i know fits

Those Firm Feel boxes are refurbished and rebuilt originals?

[garner7555]

Yes, "Firm Feel" and "Steer and Gear" both rebuild factory steering boxes.  They do a great job and they can modify the amount of effort needed to turn the wheel to suit your liking.  They rebuild the box,  the "rebuilt" boxes from the parts stores have only been cleaned up and new seals normally and can still feel worn depending on what you get.   

[303 Mopar]

If you are interested in a factory box that has the stage 3 modification done to it then I have one on the shelf that has never been installed.  I was planning to use it on my charger but if I was to sell it then I would probably use a borgeson box.        

PM sent

[303 Mopar]

Edit: Bummer you have to shorten the steering column to fit this box 

There is a direct fit coupler now so you don't have to cut the column.  Call Pete at Bergman, great guy and knows his stuff.  http://www.bergmanautocraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=5-0033

[myk]

Edit: Bummer you have to shorten the steering column to fit this box 

There is a direct fit coupler now so you don't have to cut the column.  Call Pete at Bergman, great guy and knows his stuff.  http://www.bergmanautocraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=5-0033

I wish he'd come in here and try to promote his products more.  I remember him making a few posts about the conversion but not really delving into any detail.  I was set with the Firm Feel boxes until I looked into the Borgeson stuff...

[Mike DC]

Just a tip -

Don't make decisions about steering ratios if you haven't driven the car with the eventual steering wheel size yet.  Just going from a 16" (stock Mopar) to 15" (standard aftermarket) steering wheel will make it feel a little bit faster.


As for the steering tightness -  

Are you wanting to fix the way the steering "wanders" and doesn't try to re-center itself whenever you let go of the wheel at speed?  That is actually not an issue of steering gearbox slop at all.  That is the lack of caster angle in the front suspension.   (It was a factory compromise to make one front suspension design work for either manual or power steering.)    You can add some caster angle with aftermarket UCAs or offset bushings.    

The slop in the gearbox itself (and the rubber suspension bushings) is felt by how far you can wiggle the wheel side-to-side without affecting the car's path.  There is an adjustment knob on the box itself.  And getting the box overhauled tighter by Firm Feel or Steer & Gear never hurts.  

[Ryan.C]

Just a tip -

Don't make decisions about steering ratios if you haven't driven the car with the eventual steering wheel size yet.  Just going from a 16" (stock Mopar) to 15" (standard aftermarket) steering wheel will make it feel a little bit faster.


As for the steering tightness -  

Are you wanting to fix the way the steering "wanders" and doesn't try to re-center itself whenever you let go of of the wheel at speed?  That is actually not an issue of steering gearbox slop at all.  That is the lack of caster angle in the front suspension.   (It was a factory compromise to make one front suspension design work for either manual or power steering.)    You can add some caster angle with aftermarket UCAs or offset bushings.

Thanks for the good info.   

The slop in the gearbox itself (and the rubber suspension bushings) is felt by how far you can wiggle the wheel side-to-side without affecting the car's path.  There is an adjustment knob on the box itself.  And getting the box overhauled tighter by Firm Feel or Steer & Gear never hurts.  

[c00nhunterjoe]

As long as your physical box isnt worn out, dropping the line pressure makes a radical difference in road feel. Gaining 4-5 degrees of positive caster on top of that will make it feel very close to a modern car's effort.

[phantom]

Thanks for all your tips 

[Big Sugar]

You should also consider welding up and boxing the steering gear mount ...You would be surprised at the amount of flex in the mount while turning left and right. Especially with bigger tires. While your at it Weld up the Whole K member. Firm feel sells a nice kit just for that. 


Ron

[SRT-440]

I have a borguson box on my RR..love it..firm feel and not loose like factory ps. It's worth the chedder it costs. 

[cavemanno1]

Could you guys tell me what "firm feel" do when rebuilding the steering box?The reason i'm asking is that i'm half way accross the world and posting back and forth would be cotly.So i was wondering if any engeneering company could do it 
Does anyone has a before and after picture of the box done by Firm feel?Do they do anything intnernally or something?

Thanks,

[Big Sugar]

Where are you ?   to save on double shipping your steering box..just bite the bullet and get the Borgenson kit. you'll be happy.

Ron

[cavemanno1]

I'm in Hungary(Europe).But let's say I have to get the steering box rebuilt here,what would be involved?
Like to know how these rebuilds work.We talk about 40+ year of technology so hopefully it can be done here as well.

[myk]

Are the women in Hungary as beautiful as the U.S. porn industry would have viewers believe they are?

[cavemanno1]

Would you watch any of them if they were ugly?Obviously they hire the gorgeous ones!But why do you watch that much porn,thought you have a girlfriend?
Some people say Hungarian girls are beautiful but every nation has beautiful women.

[Kern Dog]

This took a strange turn. 

[fy469rtse]

Yes I agree , mind on the job at hand Myk,
Get the borgason box,
I would have , shits me that everytime I do something repair re chrome endlessly some one comes out with the very part I need
The borgason box would have given me the extra header room I needed and rack and pinion feel to steering

[Mopar Nut]

Are the women in Hungary as beautiful as the U.S. porn industry would have viewers believe they are?

[cavemanno1]

I don't plan using headers so I won't need extra room there.I do wanna find out though what's involved rebuilding them.

[XH29N0G]

Could you guys tell me what "firm feel" do when rebuilding the steering box?The reason i'm asking is that i'm half way accross the world and posting back and forth would be cotly.So i was wondering if any engeneering company could do it 
Does anyone has a before and after picture of the box done by Firm feel?Do they do anything intnernally or something?

Thanks,

I thought one of the changes that can be made was related to the pressure relief springs and there were some internet articles I saw at one point on something like this.  I know they are a business and have no financial beneficial reason to share the details, but someone there might tell you if you contact them to ask and explain the issue is the shipping.  I trust what the others here have to say about what the best route is for an upgrade over what I suggest, so this is just a thought. 

[Mopar Nut]

I don't plan using headers so I won't need extra room there.I do wanna find out though what's involved rebuilding them.

Here's some on YouTube for chevy's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ-89YhvAXU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX119EtadWM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqqqdQMljm0

[cavemanno1]

Thanks guys!
If I can't get it done over here I will just have to fork out for one.

[john108]

Firm Feel rebuilt mine.  From the outside, you can't tell anything was done.