440 combo opinions

[mopar0166]

 

[thrillbilly]

  you are talking about swapping carbs before fixing your engine... 13.8 in a 3800 lb car is about 280 flywheel hp. 101 mph in the same weight is about 300. You have a problem.

Yeah, I know there is a problem, that's why I'm asking.

[thrillbilly]

  you are talking about swapping carbs before fixing your engine... 13.8 in a 3800 lb car is about 280 flywheel hp. 101 mph in the same weight is about 300. You have a problem.

Tough crowd.

At least the OP cares enough about power and performance to take the car to the track.  If he gives us cylinder pressure data, we will have more worthwhile information than we ever get here.  If he could get back to the track this spring and spend a day flogging the car there, and cylinder pressure data, we can get him well to the 12s, motor alone, I'm sure.

I'm hoping the carb will wake it up.  Definitely wanting to get it back to the track.  Thank you for your help.  The car is stored about an hour away, just need to find the time to get this info!!

[c00nhunterjoe]

  you are talking about swapping carbs before fixing your engine... 13.8 in a 3800 lb car is about 280 flywheel hp. 101 mph in the same weight is about 300. You have a problem.

Tough crowd.

At least the OP cares enough about power and performance to take the car to the track.  If he gives us cylinder pressure data, we will have more worthwhile information than we ever get here.  If he could get back to the track this spring and spend a day flogging the car there, and cylinder pressure data, we can get him well to the 12s, motor alone, I'm sure.

Tough crowd? Lol, you are one to talk.

[thrillbilly]

If I wanted to read a pissing match, I would have posted this on Moparts.  If you don't have something constructive, or some sort of advice, just don't comment.  It's that easy.

[c00nhunterjoe]

If I wanted to read a pissing match, I would have posted this on Moparts.  If you don't have something constructive, or some sort of advice, just don't comment.  It's that easy.

Ouch. With an attitude like that, good luck with your car. Im sure going from the 750 to the 850 carb will give you the 100+ hp you are lacking on that setup. Im out.

And for the record, there is no pissing match, bsb67 has a history of coming off harsh as well when it comes to rhetorical questions and it was a joking nod to him.

[thrillbilly]

Oh no, please don't go......

[c00nhunterjoe]

What was that you said about moparts? Why dont YOU get back on topic instead of starting a pissing match in your own thread before the rest of the guys on here that can help you turn their backs as well.

[thrillbilly]

You said you were out, so please don't comment anymore.  I really don't need you to tell me for the 5th time what I already know.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I said i wasnt going to help anymore. You lost that. I can comment on whatever pleases me. What exactly do you know again? No part numbers, no data, did you ever find the receipts from the build? You said all the machine shop did was install the cam for you so you should have all the answers to the questions that were asked by others. You want tough, you want harsh. Fine.
     News flash for you- The others asked for cranking compression numbers because its pretty clear that the engine you presented in your origonal post is not what you built/paid for. We see it here all the time. Do some quick forum reading and you will see countless questions almost identical to yours and it usually ends up the same, then the OP decides to not take the advice and do what they want anyway and complain that it still doesnt run right/fast enough.
  There are 2 scenarios possible here. 1st is you have the exact engine described in your 1st post and something is drastically wrong causing it to run so poorly at 101 mph but most likely you have an 8:1 bottom end with aluminum heads stuck on it making the problems worse. Lots of simple questions were asked that you couldnt answer a single one. Then you say that you are going to slap an 850 on it to fix the problem. De-ja-vu. Over and over and over again. So yep, you pissed me off and its clear you dont care nor want my advice and that doesnt hurt my feelings one bit. My cars all run just fine. Try not to piss off the other gurus on this site if you have any hopes of figuring out your engine.

[c00nhunterjoe]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,34656.msg377750.html#msg377750

In 2007 you asked about detonation and leaning out. Checking fuel pressure was brought up by ron and another member. Its now 2016 and you still have the same problem and the same question by ron again was asked about fuel pressure. I rest my case with you. If you want help, great, but take the advice you asked for and answer the questions.

[thrillbilly]

Wow, impressive tantrum bud.  Maybe follow your own advice and read what I said. The car is in storage, with all the paperwork for the engine.  It's an hour and a half away, I haven't had time to get it.  i just wish I was as smart as you so I didn't have to ask all these annoying questions.  Oh please forgive me great guru, give me a break dude.

[thrillbilly]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,34656.msg377750.html#msg377750

In 2007 you asked about detonation and leaning out. Checking fuel pressure was brought up by ron and another member. Its now 2016 and you still have the same problem and the same question by ron again was asked about fuel pressure. I rest my case with you. If you want help, great, but take the advice you asked for and answer the questions.

Right, I've been driving it around for 9 years with detonation?  I'm guessing I wouldn't have any Pistons left.

[c00nhunterjoe]

The car has been in storage for 9 years? You missed the entire point. A 10:1 aluminum headed 440 should not be pinging at 34 degrees of timing. You came here and asked for help 9 years ago and still have the same problem.

[firefighter3931]

Ok, back on topic 

I'm still thinking there is a fuel delivery problem ;

- Fuel line too small
- Fuel pump inadequate
- Carb not fully open with the pedal on the floor

(1) does the car have a 5/16 or 3/8 fuel line ?
(2) What fuel pump is on this 440 ?
(3) Float level checked ?
(4) was the holley 20-7 throttle adapter installed on this carb ?


Based on the pinging problem identified I'm thinking the problem is a lean condition at WOT. A 10:1 aluminum headed 440 should not ping on pump gas if all is right. 

Once you get the dynamic compression test numbers we'll know what direction to go. 

If the cranking number is low you can allways go in and advance the cam timing to increase bottom end power. If I was installing that cam on a 10:1 street build with 3.55 gears I'd degree it in on a 104* intake centerline. The XE284 is fairly healthy with 240/246@.050 



Ron

[BSB67]

Wow.  Stepped out for a couple days and things went a little sideways.  Certainly not my intent. c00 and I agree more often than not, and when we don't we jab each other, mostly in fun.  Generally I'm the one taking the low road, not sure how this one ended upside down.  I'll have to work on that.  

Can't do much until the car comes out.  And certainly Ron's points need to be investigated too.

[thrillbilly]

Ok, back on topic 

I'm still thinking there is a fuel delivery problem ;

- Fuel line too small
- Fuel pump inadequate
- Carb not fully open with the pedal on the floor.   Wouldn't hurt to check, but had help when it was installed.

(1) does the car have a 5/16 or 3/8 fuel line ?  Has 3/8 fuel line from tank to carb, including sending unit.
(2) What fuel pump is on this 440 ?  I think it's a carter mechanical pump, around 6.5 psi according to gage.
(3) Float level checked ?  Yes, it's probably just over the halfway mark
(4) was the holley 20-7 throttle adapter installed on this carb ?  The trans is a manual valve body so I didn't need the      kickdown linkage.  The cable is just attached to the carb lever.


Based on the pinging problem identified I'm thinking the problem is a lean condition at WOT. A 10:1 aluminum headed 440 should not ping on pump gas if all is right. 

Once you get the dynamic compression test numbers we'll know what direction to go. 

If the cranking number is low you can allways go in and advance the cam timing to increase bottom end power. If I was installing that cam on a 10:1 street build with 3.55 gears I'd degree it in on a 104* intake centerline. The XE284 is fairly healthy with 240/246@.050 



Ron

[thrillbilly]

Wow.  Stepped out for a couple days and things went a little sideways.  Certainly not my intent. c00 and I agree more often than not, and when we don't we jab each other, mostly in fun.  Generally I'm the one taking the low road, not sure how this one ended upside down.  I'll have to work on that.  

Can't do much until the car comes out.  And certainly Ron's points need to be investigated too.

You'll have that I guess.  I may be able to get the info next Friday, so bear with me please.   

[firefighter3931]

(1) does the car have a 5/16 or 3/8 fuel line ?  Has 3/8 fuel line from tank to carb, including sending unit.
(2) What fuel pump is on this 440 ?  I think it's a carter mechanical pump, around 6.5 psi according to gage.
(3) Float level checked ?  Yes, it's probably just over the halfway mark
(4) was the holley 20-7 throttle adapter installed on this carb ?  The trans is a manual valve body so I didn't need the      kickdown linkage.  The cable is just attached to the carb lever.

Ok, some comments/observations :

(1) the 3/8 fuel line and pickup is fine....no worries there.
(2) Carter makes several "street" pumps but there is only one that is rated at 120GPH. If it's maintaining 6.5 PSI with the car at full throttle going the the traps....you're good.
(3) Float level is fine.
(4) Installing any 4150/4160 style carb (Holley/Demon/Proform/Quickfuel etc...) absolutely requires the 20-7 adapter. Doesn't matter if you have a kickdown or not. The Adapter has nothing to do with Kickdown linkage and everything to do with pedal ratio

When you get over to see the car have someone push the pedal to the floor and look down the throat of the carb. I'll bet you will see the primary venturies partially open. I've seen this dozens of times over the years. It's a common mistake. Carbs are "universal fit" and as such require brand specific adapters to dial in the proper pedal ratio.



Ron

[thrillbilly]

Oh my, how dumb would that be if all these years that was the issue. 

[thrillbilly]

https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/321987987800

Something like this doodad?  

Now, is it possible to have the proper WOT without this?  I'm going to get one regardless, just curious.

[69wannabe]

Glad to see this thread is getting back to the topic, these old car's can and will make you pull your hair out by the roots!!!! What works on one 440 may not work on another 440 but the set up you have is dragging for sure. Ron and BSB know their business when it comes to engines so maybe they can get your 440 running like it should....

[thrillbilly]

Glad to see this thread is getting back to the topic, these old car's can and will make you pull your hair out by the roots!!!! What works on one 440 may not work on another 440 but the set up you have is dragging for sure. Ron and BSB know their business when it comes to engines so maybe they can get your 440 running like it should....

For sure, getting some great info and direction too look.  Much appreciated.

[firefighter3931]

https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/321987987800

Something like this doodad?  

Yes, that is the part you need  

Now, is it possible to have the proper WOT without this?  I'm going to get one regardless, just curious.

Without this part you will not achieve proper pedal function.  


You might want to consider a taller throttle cable bracket as well with the RPM intake. The stock throttle cable stuff is too low and messes with the geometry. Mancini Racing carries the proper throttle cable bracket :

http://www.manciniracing.com/man440en.html

http://www.manciniracing.com/tarespbrben.html

http://www.manciniracing.com/thexdeca.html



Ron

[thrillbilly]

https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/321987987800

Something like this doodad?  

Yes, that is the part you need  

Now, is it possible to have the proper WOT without this?  I'm going to get one regardless, just curious.

Without this part you will not achieve proper pedal function.  


You might want to consider a taller throttle cable bracket as well with the RPM intake. The stock throttle cable stuff is too low and messes with the geometry. Mancini Racing carries the proper throttle cable bracket :

http://www.manciniracing.com/man440en.html

http://www.manciniracing.com/tarespbrben.html

http://www.manciniracing.com/thexdeca.html



Ron

I did make a riser for the throttle cable to be in line, so at least I did that properly.   Thank you