what constitutes a "barn find"

[John_Kunkel]

In my vernacular, the "find" part of barn find is what counts. It can't be found if it's location was already known to many. To me, the classic barn find is a car that has been hidden away for years and only the owner knows it's there.

[Charger_Fan]

  At that Daytona pic.

I am so embarrassed for you all to see the Charger this way .
 

Good, now I don't feel as bad. Mine looks like this more often than not. 

[Lord Warlock]

that tends to be what a 60s car looks like if parked long enough, the big flat hoods ask to have stuff laid on it, as does the trunk, its perfect height for laying stuff down and indentations on the hood make it stay where laid. 

[ht4spd307]

this is a barn find

[HANDM]

Do you have a tarp on the ground, under the car? That helps a bunch.

It sits on blacktop....

[HANDM]

that tends to be what a 60s car looks like if parked long enough, the big flat hoods ask to have stuff laid on it, as does the trunk, its perfect height for laying stuff down and indentations on the hood make it stay where laid. 

Egg zachary right, I had a 69 Dodge shelf for the longest time 

[TheAutoArchaeologist]

Indeed "Barn Find" is a more general term now to associate with a vehicle that has been off the road for numerous years. 

Immediately, if you hear the term, your mind can jump to the idea of what the car is/was doing before the current moment. 

[Lord Warlock]

actually think that last photo is a burial ground, not barn find.  Now if it was a bunch of 60s muscle I'd feel differently, or if there were duesenburgs and cords sitting in there.  run of mill 1930's cars just aren't worth much these days, even restored.  Their fan base is dying off. 

[polywideblock]

this is a barn find

so are these

       

[ht4spd307]

if you think barn find pigeon crap is involved 

[cbrestorations]

what if it has been sinking into the earth in the woods...whats that, a forrest find? lol

[Lord Warlock]

the "field finds" really should have a different designation than a barn find, at least with the barn finds the owner at least attempted to shelter the vehicle to reduce rot from exposure.  Maybe they should be "farm find". 

[out there]

what if it has been sinking into the earth in the woods...whats that, a forrest find? lol

Yes, this would constitute a "Forest Find" but, if an acorn fell on it and no one was around to hear it, would it actually make a sound?
That is the question   

[polywideblock]

what if it has been sinking into the earth in the woods...whats that, a forrest find? lol

isn't that just a derelict 

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

Here were my thoughts from a few years ago on the matters:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,74322.msg836720.html#msg836720

...was reading the new issue of Mopar Collectors Guide where a 1970 Hemi Charger (sunroof car) was being touted as a "survivor" - that 1970 car, lost its original engine many years ago and has "75% original paint" after repairing rust in the quarters and trunk... Roll Eyes

Really?? Is that a "Survivor" without the original engine and having had extensive rust repair? popcrn


Survivor is such an overused word - I can see why David Burroughs sought to copyright the term  

So, the "Barn Find" Charger would be a Survivor - or as David Burroughs might award, a "Zenith" accolade might be in order for the T7 car in this thread  

Here is some interesting reading on whether to restore - or NOT  
http://www.bloomingtongold.com/inc.php?link=Restoreitornot

       

Restore it? Or Not!
By David Burroughs
The question "when to restore a Collector Car versus leaving it alone" elicits different answers from people with different missions.  Here are 3 points of view:

1.  Bloomington Gold's mission is to preserve the historic accuracy of factory production cars.  Therefore, we recognize and inspire collectors to preserve cars in or restore them to typical factory production...no better, no worse, no different. But make no mistake, our first goal is to preserve whenever possible.  We suggest restoration only if the car is already restored (altered) or has deteriorated to a point where finishes such as paint, fabrics, or plating are no longer useful as references.  In short, our philosophy is the same as the Smithsonian Institute: Do no harm to historically accurate artifacts.  Period.

2.  In contrast, a Restoration Shop's mission is (generally) to restore things.  Otherwise they'd be called Preservation Shops.  In their defense, they don't make money until someone wants something restored.  Not only that, many restoration shops simply lack the knowledge or motive to advise a novice owner or collector when to "leave it alone."  So, their answer when to restore is normally far less conservative than Bloomington Gold's.

3. Finally, the Car Owner's mission is usually to receive recognition.  Historically, that equates to making it "shiny and perfect," because neighbors and fans at the local car show normally don't ooh and aah over dulled paint and a slight tear in a seat cover.  Even if it's on low mileage SURVIVOR® or BENCHMARK® cars.  It is tragic how many wonderfully preserved (and valuable) cars' DNAs have been "destroyed" by cosmetic  restorations in order to win a $25 trophy or the praise of an oblivious next door neighbor.

Like it or not, there will always be these last two segments of the collector car industry exerting pressure away from historic perfection and toward cosmetic perfection. It's just human nature.

All that said, Bloomington Gold has been remarkably successful inspiring more and more people to appreciate the value and rarity of authentic unrestored originals...and it appears to be gaining some ground.  First, notice the difference between cars restored in 1978 vs. 2008.  Although most restorations today are "over the top," they are still far more accurate than they were 30 years ago when Bloomington Gold began moving the industry in this direction.   Second, notice the broad use of the term "survivor" by people trying to add value to the cars they are marketing.  Until Bloomington Gold introduced the world to SURVIVOR® in 1990, no one described cars that way.  Today, people are becoming proud of it.  A few character marks and patina have become badges of honor and certainly help document a car's authenticity compared to a restored one. Bloomington Gold's vision has come true in large part and people are following it.
In fact, a collector just paid a cool $1.65 million for a 1911 Oldsmobile that doesn't quite yet meet SURVIVOR Standards (because it can't pass the road test part of SURVIVOR Certification).  Why pay so much for a car that doesn't run?  The owner was wise enough to understand its significance and rarity as is.  Although it may be a long time before the majority of collectors figure this out, a rapidly growing segment of the collector car market is beginning to realize the benefits, rarity, and prestige of owning these type cars.  Once restored, there is one less.
Run a want ad looking for a beautifully restored Corvette, Ferrari, Mopar, or some other highly sought after collector car. Responses will come out of the woodwork.  Good ones, too.  Then run an identical want ad except change the wording from beautifully restored to "nearly show room new unrestored original."  Then wait.  Then wait some more.  Then think about what this means.  It means that highly unrestored original cars are by definition much more rare than restored ones.  Therefore, Bloomington Gold is confident that more and more people will become increasingly aware of the key ingredients that drive up the desirability and value of most collectibles:                  
• Rarity                  
• Desirability                  
• Paperwork / Documentation                  
• Excellent unrestored original condition
Likewise, we urge owners/collectors to consider the following facts and to think twice before moving toward cosmetic restorations on really good original unrestored cars.

Fact #1:
In the collector world (other than cars), restoration and refinishing drives value down.Within the great collections of antiques, toys, firearms, timepieces, furniture, paintings, coins, and other historic pieces or fine art, the unrestored item is the most desirable and prestigious to collect.  In fact, some would argue that refinishing or restoring a fine original piece is equivalent to an act of vandalism.  In the long run, why will car collecting be any different?

Fact #2:
Like vandalism, restorations can be repaired; however, they can never be reversed.

Fact #3:
Simply refinishing (or repainting) is equivalent to restoration in termsof irreversibility.

What's wrong with this picture?

We are aware of several owners who purchased BENCHMARK Certified Corvettes and restored them to make them cosmetically perfect.  Ironically, they ended up "stealing defeat from the jaws of victory."  They started with a car that had already achieved the most prestigious award; then spent over $100,000 more to make it cosmetically perfect, and ended up rendering the car capable of only attaining a Gold Certificate and never again being able to qualify for the much more prestigious BENCHMARK.  How's that for going backwards?  And paying for it to boot!

In conclusion, here is our advice to our friends in the collector car industry:
Decide which type perfection is best to pursue; cosmetic perfection or historic perfection?
Do not act on advice from restoration shops alone.  Get outside opinions from noted / respected judges, writers, collectors, or others with no vested interest.  Then decide.
Realize the true rarity of SURVIVOR® and BENCHMARK® level cars in comparison to similar cars that have been restored.
Realize the premium that many collectors, organizations, and dealers place on cosmetic perfection versus historic perfection and authenticity demonstrated by lack of restoration.
Realize the premium the Smithsonian and other fine art museums place on "originals."
If you want something cosmetically perfect, there are thousands of restoration candidates available for that purpose without needing to use good unrestored originals:
                 • Ones that have already been restored.
                 • Others that have deteriorated clearly past the point of preservation.
                 • Still others that are historically important but are in pieces.
For more information about:
                 • Becoming SURVIVOR® or BENCHMARK® Certified
                 • Becoming a Certified SURVIVOR® Judge
                 • How SURVIVOR and BENCHMARK trademarks help the industry
                 • Criteria for SURVIVOR and BENCHMARK
                 • The important differences between being unrestored and Certified
                 • Preservation Techniques
                 • How to determine what you have

Contact: David Burroughs
309-888-2588
david@BloomingtonGold.com

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

And of course, what was probably the best barn find deal in the past decade:

That's one dirty barn!  Car looks like it cleaned up nicely. 

[chargerperson]

I found this 69 Buick in a parking garage in Manhattan when attending the Thanksgiving parade.  It clearly had been there for a very long time, possibly years.  The car was last registered in 2004 making it an quasi urban barn find.

[1974dodgecharger]

put it in the barn for one day and someone else pretend to find it..viola barn find.

[Lord Warlock]

Suppose I could always paint my hobby garage red, and make it lean a little to one side to make the barn look more impressive.
Its kind of funny to hear someone claiming to have coined the term survivor, when we considered original cars untouched since their daily driven days 20+ years ago to be survivors before some smart guy decided to copywrite the term.  Anyways not gonna complain, as I don't think anything I have in my "barn" would fit the high and mighty restoration guys survivor status. 

[928007]

how about this