Fi-Tech Fuel Injection Question:

[Captain D]

Hi all,

Just wanted to say that I was finally able to drop my Charger off for the Fi-Tech fuel injection kit. But, I was just curious to ask about the lead additive and Star Tron fuel stabilizer to combat the ill effects of ethanol in today's gas. I used to run both in my Charger (the lead additive and Star Tron) for my carburetor, but what is your take on them being used with this new unit and the O2 sensors? Would the lead affect them? If so, do you think that the the fuel stabilizer will be the safer of the two additives seeing how folks even use it in vehicles with fuel injection today (to maintain clean injectors), etc.?

Thanks again for your time & for any replies,
Aaron

[myk]

Looks like everyone is buying into the Fitech stuff, but since it's relatively new to everyone here, maybe you should contact Fitech itself about any future concerns...

[69wannabe]

As said above, just email fi tech and ask them about it and they usually reply within 24 hours.

[Captain D]

Thank you gents for the replies,

Yeah, I called Friday and talked to a rep by the name of Bryce from Fi-Tech. I asked him my question above, but he replied quite rudely, "I don't know what type of question that is and would rather not talk about it." So, whatever that means is anyone's guess but I suppose I'm trying to take preemptive action to protect the new 02 sensors. But, I'm calling back tomorrow to: 1.) Find out the answers seeing how I didn't just buy a pound of cheese from the local deli for $3.99, but a $1,500 part. 2.) And, to report Brae's so-called quality customer service. I'll post up what I find out for the benefits of others here so they know as well.

Thanks again and & chat again soon,
Aaron  

[cdr]

do not use lead with an o2 sensor, as far as other additives the bottle they come in will say o2 sensor safe or not   if not call Star tron

[John_Kunkel]

The FI Tech guy you want to talk to is Ken, he knows his product forwards and backwards.

[Captain D]

Thanks again,

I made some more phone calls and although the lead additive is not recommended, the verdict is that the Star Tron is actually ideal to use since the 02 sensors / injectors will be cleaned because the gas will be clean. That's cool because it's one less thing to add when filling up. On that note, however, I'm a little weary about my 'leftover' lead from the late 2015 season. We had a mild winter and I was actually able to enjoy the car til' about mid December. Because I didn't know about Fi-Tech at the time, and I just figured that I would always have the carburetor anyway, I naturally kept some gas leftover in the tank (with some additive also 'leftover' in there, as well). Well, fast forward til' February - I ended up buying the Fi-Tech kit and with clear roads and weather on the horizon, I excitedly jumped into the Charger for the 1rst time since December and drove it to the shop for the upgrades while forgetting that I used to run the lead additive. Fortunately, I didn't add any lead this time round' (only a little Star Tron) when putting in about $12 worth of gas. I let the car warm up and run for about 20 minutes + the shop is a half hour away, so I am praying to the car gods that between my home and the shop I used up whatever lead was leftover.

From here on out, I'll be sure that no more lead is used. But, do you guys feel that my new 02 sensors will be okay if we fire up the car in the coming days with this new Fi-Tech unit installed and there is small remnants of the lead additive still leftover?

Thank you for any input once more...
Aaron     

[cdr]

I would drain the fuel. 

[Captain D]

I agree & played it safe by having them simply drain the existing fuel from the tank. The shop noted that they have machines to pump, so its not going to be an issue at all. So, this is great news + peace of mind. Thanks again for input.

[c00nhunterjoe]

They are installing a fuel injection electric pump on your car. Will take about 45 seconds to drain a full tank of fuel with it.

[Captain D]

Hi there Joe - good seeing ya again!   Great to hear that it's an easy job (draining the gas). There goes a 1/2 tank of fuel down the drain, but oh well I realize that it'll be worth it. Hey y'all, as a side note, it's a sight to see ol' Joe here drive. This guy has a beast of a Charger and it's bad a$$ indeed!  

[c00nhunterjoe]

  it is a fun car... lol

[Captain D]

Update on the Fi-Tech install: Apparently, there was a batch of defective units. And, my luck, I had to be one to receive one of those kits. So, the shop is in the process of sending stuff back, getting replacements, etc. They too noted the tech guy by the name of 'Bryce' having an arrogant attitude when trying to simply get answers. I'll be sure to let my shop know to speak with Ken. Anyhow, this was a bit of a surprise seeing we've heard nothing but glowing reviews on this product thus far. Things are getting replaced, sure, but just wanted to post an update...

[JR]

Wow, that is a surprise. What are the symptoms of a defective unit?

I got mine back in December. No problems so far. But they are a young company who have suddenly found themselves struggling to keep up with demand, so I guess something had to go wrong sooner or later.

When does your replacement unit arrive?

[Captain D]

Yeah, a surprise to both me and the shop as well. I sent a lengthy email to Ken (owner) stating the recent experiences now 3 weeks ongoing (provided that there are no more defective parts that arrive), which should have been done in a fraction of this time. As far as the symptoms, the units came as 'dead in the water' from the get-go. We have excellent grounds, connections, etc. This is a high-end performance shop doing the install and this is cake for them, but all we can do is simply wait and see what the next batch will bring. This is why I wanted to get this done during the winter vs. during the spring / summer when the season is in full swing with events. Get this, the tech guy Bryce suggested that the shop themselves rebuild the fuel command center instead of mailing it back! Ridiculous! Rightfully so, the shop said that they're not going to touch it and be responsible. I sent a strongly worded note to Ken stating that he 1.) needs to deal with Bryce, 2.) probably should offer some form of credit off the $1,400 for 3 weeks of run-a-round thus far. A few guys in the shop were looking to purchase this kit for their classic rides, so they're looking to see what happens and I feel that it's only fair to voice my experiences here on the forum for those looking to potentially make future purchase with them, as well.

Updates to come...  

[John_Kunkel]

Hmmm, my unit was test run on one of two "mule engines" they have; unless they no longer test run them, the defective parts must have been other than the throttle body. 

[1974dodgecharger]

WOW!!!  guess I will wait before buying their dual EFI kit for injection on a blower then....great prices for 2 grand I can two of their EFI units on my roots and have an awesome setup with no more tuning issues messing with carbs etc....My blower carbs alone cost 1800 bucks for 200 more I could of got their kit that supports 1200HP.....

[69wannabe]

Yeah, a surprise to both me and the shop as well. I sent a lengthy email to Ken (owner) stating the recent experiences now 3 weeks ongoing (provided that there are no more defective parts that arrive), which should have been done in a fraction of this time. As far as the symptoms, the units came as 'dead in the water' from the get-go. We have excellent grounds, connections, etc. This is a high-end performance shop doing the install and this is cake for them, but all we can do is simply wait and see what the next batch will bring. This is why I wanted to get this done during the winter vs. during the spring / summer when the season is in full swing with events. Get this, the tech guy Bryce suggested that the shop themselves rebuild the fuel command center instead of mailing it back! Ridiculous! Rightfully so, the shop said that they're not going to touch it and be responsible. I sent a strongly worded note to Ken stating that he 1.) needs to deal with Bryce, 2.) probably should offer some form of credit off the $1,400 for 3 weeks of run-a-round thus far. A few guys in the shop were looking to purchase this kit for their classic rides, so they're looking to see what happens and I feel that it's only fair to voice my experiences here on the forum for those looking to potentially make future purchase with them, as well.

Updates to come...  

What part of the kit was defective?? The throttle body or the command center?? I hope I didn't wind up with a bad unit too!! I'm close to getting mine up and running but still got some other things to get done before starting it up. What was the "bad kit" doing, no start pretty much? Just don't want to dissect this thing if mine doesn't start!!

[Captain D]

Quick update: First off, many thanks to everyone for the many posts and being that 'shoulder to cry on,'  . But, overall, things are starting to come around. The shop noted that Fi-Tech really stepped it up and delivered quality replacements this time. By me contacting Ken directly (bypassing Bryce the buffoon), the shop added, they were able to make some real progress to the point that everything is now finally installed and test runs will be done these next two days so that the car will be ready to leave the shop as early as this upcoming weekend after the unit self-adjusts and is double-checked, etc. They even demonstrated to me while I was in the shop just how easy the car starts up now.

To answer your question - actually both the fuel command center and throttle body were bad. The shop knew immediately as both components were simply dead at the get-go (no start). Ken noted that his company is so new and quite busy that every so often a unit slips through the cracks - and mine, of course, was that one! All I can say after this experience is to hold onto your warranty just in case. In short, the shop likes this set-up and was impressed, so I wouldn't rule it out based on my sole experience for those thinking about going with it. Like all things, I suppose there runs the risk of one out of a thousand that is defective in practically anything we buy.

More updates and pictures to come once we leave the shop in a few days. Thank you again there gents...  

[69wannabe]

Sounds great!! If the weather will cooperate here for just a few days I will be able to see if my Fi tech set up is going to do good. It's so cold and crappy here I just don't feel like going out to the shop and messing around much. I got one more sub frame connector to install and then I will set it back on all four's and finish putting the rest of it together.

[68CoronetRT]

How does it run so far? This setup is looking very much in the future for my car.

[TexasStroker]

How does it run so far? This setup is looking very much in the future for my car.

Same here!  I am very interested in going this route since seeing Summit tweet an install video a few weeks ago.

[69wannabe]

I haven't got mine up and running just yet. I did get the other sub frame connector installed today and maybe sunday I will put it back on all fours and I have to put the alternator and fan back on and wire up the fuel pump and see what happens. Got to work tomorrow so maybe sunday I can get it together and see if it's going to run or not!! Hopefully I didn't wind up with one of the bad units!! That would suck having to return it and wait for another set up to arrive!!

[TexasStroker]

I haven't got mine up and running just yet. I did get the other sub frame connector installed today and maybe sunday I will put it back on all fours and I have to put the alternator and fan back on and wire up the fuel pump and see what happens. Got to work tomorrow so maybe sunday I can get it together and see if it's going to run or not!! Hopefully I didn't wind up with one of the bad units!! That would suck having to return it and wait for another set up to arrive!!

No rush...I understand the time constraints.  Hopefully it all goes well Sunday and you are cruising a tighter, easier starting Charger!  I've got tons of parts I need time to get on...I think my subframe connectors date back to 1999 or so, lol.

[Captain D]

Hi all,

My Charger is done with this unit finally installed - my plan is to go for that test within the next day or two. I'll be sure to post reviews / pics. Please keep us updated on all of the other installs of this product, as well! 

Chat soon,
Aaron

[c00nhunterjoe]

AND VIDEO. 

[Derwud]

Hmmm, my unit was test run on one of two "mule engines" they have; unless they no longer test run them, the defective parts must have been other than the throttle body. 

Saw the "mules" and talked to the test guys, real nice guys...

[Captain D]

Just a quick update til' later: The good news is that everything seems to be up and running in that the unit takes about a second & a half to fire up with no choke, pedal pumping, etc. However, one thing that I notice as unusual is that by the time I came back home from the shop, my battery was reading 12.9 steady on the voltmeter (a 30 minute drive home). So, I put the battery on a slow steady charge over night on the battery tender til' it was fully charged. I started up the car the following day and within 10 minutes the battery reading went from 14.6 back down to 13 - 13.3. range, which means that my alternator is working that much harder to recharge the battery and I've always had my battery (red-top Optima) comfortably between a great 14.5-14.6 range. Now, I realize that I had some newer stuff under the hood, sure, but I feel that this new reading is just too low. For those who also have a Fi-Tech unit, what are your battery readings and any idea what could be the culprit? Calling either Fi-Tech *again,* the shop - or both.

More updates to come...

[John_Kunkel]

My 150-amp alternator maintains 13.3 to 14.4 with everything running. What's the amp rating of your alternator?

[Captain D]

Hey John,

Thank you for your reply. I have a 60 amp alternator with a voltage regulator that can withstand up to 72 amps. I was able to get a hold of the shop and they said that 12.9V is actually good (even though I am not running any additional accessories) and I am not to do anything to change it, surprisingly. But, I just never had any of my batteries at that reading before and, according to my battery tender, my battery is in dire need of a charging - especially at initial cold start up. So, I just like to double-check stuff.

Thank you  again,
Aaron

[c00nhunterjoe]

As discussed in our texts, its low output. Verify with a voltmeter instead of the factory gauges, and have high beams and fan running as well. Also verify amp draw as well, if you dont have an amprobe, we can use mine to see how much is actually being pulled vs alternatory output.

[Captain D]

Yeah,  this system seems to require a lot of current.  It's disappointing to learn that my 60 amp alternator 'may' not be up to the task perhaps, as surprising as that thought may be.  But if I have to change out alternators, I'll have to be careful so as not to upgrade too much to the point that I run the risk of damaging the regulator (and some of the stock wiring).  Not that I want to go this route, but just thinking out loud I suppose...

[c00nhunterjoe]

If it comes down to total output needed, which im not buying yet, then i would suggest going internally regulated at that point.

[John_Kunkel]

Yeah,  this system seems to require a lot of current.  

The system main power is fused at 25 amps and that's usually over-rated by 20% or so.

[Captain D]

I contacted the builder of my alternator since he is very knowledgeable as well and, although he is in agreement that anything below 13V makes him weary, he is suggesting that I leave my current alternator in place for both the battery and alternator won't be damaged / affected (he is of the opinion that the alternator he built can handle this added option running in that range of charge). I ended up buying a red-top Optima battery and he feels that it's one of the toughest batteries out there. However, he just suggested that I keep an eye on the needle gauge and voltmeter every once in awhile. So, with that being said, I suppose as long as I am at the 13V point or above I may keep everything 'as is' for the time being. I'll be sure to follow up with some more test runs, etc. I was along the lines that if the battery is undercharged, then the timing may not be 100% accurate because the system isn't at its best. Personally, I'd like to see a higher reading but one can make the argument that it's a trade-off: to upgrade to fuel-injection something has to give.

Tomorrow's weather looks to be really nice, so I'll be looking to go for a spin. It seems that the accelerator pedal is a little firmer with the new spring hardware assembly and I've noticed that the car warms up faster since the upgrades. Overall, it's about learning / feeling the car all over again to a degree. Regarding the numbers, I suppose having the electronic ignition in addition to this new kit 'may' also play a factor in not having a higher reading on the voltmeter perhaps. As for the battery, I probably should continue to keep it on the battery tender when the car is off in my garage in an effort to try and keep the battery in 'healthy' condition as much as possible. 

Thank you again to everyone for the many posts throughout this project and I'll be sure to post some pics within the coming days,
Aaron  

[Troy]

Just FYI... these units are on sale now:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,122708.0.html

Troy

[Captain D]

That's ironic, lol. I meant to state that when I do a test run, I quickly check the battery reading on the meter and it's at the lower 14V range. In essence, I get a better reading on the battery after reaching higher RPMs vs. at idle (which, at idle it goes back down to 12.9 - 13.3V). Once I get back up to higher RPMs, the reading also goes back up to the 14V range. I realized that my alternator is only a single-field unit. Therefore, without it being a dual field - especially unlike most contemporary vehicles today with all of their latest technologies and more advanced wiring to handle all of the loaded features - it would make sense that I would get a lower reading when sitting at idle with my single-field assembly and it naturally increasing with higher RPMs.