Ordered Sidewinder heads... It's alive!

[b5blue]

Talked to Todd last night and ordered my aluminum Sidewinder Heads. Getting ready for a week off next month to do the swap. More info to come and pics soon.
http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/Sidewinder.html

[Challenger340]

Good for you 

Even OOTB they are a significant improvement over cast iron, be sure and report back when you are done !

[firefighter3931]

Those are great heads Neal.....your 440 will be quite happy 

My buddy has a set of the Sidewinders on his pro-charged 440 and is very pleased. 



Ron

[b5blue]

Todd recommended new head bolts and agreed the Comp 911 springs an A-1 pick, thanks Ron! 

[tan top]

    

[b5blue]

So I'm looking at Fel Pro gaskets. Head: 1039  Intake: 1215  Exhaust: 1414
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fpp-1039/overview 
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1215?seid=srese1&gclid=CJT9-ZOgzMoCFdgPgQodx_MN6g 
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1414?seid=srese1&gclid=CNad8YWmzMoCFdgYgQod12wBvg
  What's best silicone to use for everywhere? Next is some general info on particulars FYI in case others can use it.
Todd said: exhaust manifold stud/bolt holes are "blind" not into water jacket, (Good news for me.) Standard 440 push rods should fit fine with stock valve train components, (I've a set of Smith Bro's adjustable push rods for just in case, part P4286810 equivalent.)  Comp 911's will have 7 degree retainers and should use 8 or 9 heat range on NGK spark plugs.
  As came up in earlier discussion I'll measure how far down in the cylinder pistons top off at with stock 346 heads removed and mark TDC for #1 Cyl. to verify cam as installed. (To clear up just what pistons I've got to compute compression and find crank/cam correlation (Center line.) for Factory forged crank and MOPAR P4452783 cam with MOPAR double roller timing chain/gear set. My bore is .060 over, Firecore RTR dizzy/wires, intake: CH4B and Pro Form 750 vacuum secondary with a 1/2, spacer on top of that is a 71 factory dual snorkel air cleaner using a K&N filter and exhaust is though factory 440 H.P. manifolds. (With soon what will be a very close to stock exhaust system.)  727 tranny w Transgo TF SC Shift Kit/ 145K Mopar T.C. and 8 3/4 axle w 3.23 gears.
 

[firefighter3931]

Hi Neal,

I'm going to save you some money 

For the head gaskets....use the 8519's because these will be better from a compression ratio standpoint. The 1039's are .051 thick and the 8519's are .040 so the reduced thickness will increase compression, tighten up the quench distance and save you some money 

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/fel-8519pt1/overview/make/chrysler

The intake & exhaust gaskets you chose are fine 

An NGK 8 or 9 series plug is going to be waaay too cold ! For a pump gas street build you need some heat in the chamber. I'm going to recommend the NGK BCPR-6ES for your build and gap them @ .035 with the FireCore ignition system. 



Ron

[303 Mopar]

Are you changing up anything else with the heads, like the cam?

[b5blue]

Ron thanks again, good idea!  303 the cam stays if all checks good when I'm in there. (The entire short block has less than 10K miles.)

[b5blue]

Talked to Todd yesterday and he's supplying outlined parts at reasonable prices. Very good guy to deal with!   

[firefighter3931]

That's great Neal 

I've heard nothing but good with regards to Marsh Performance. 


Ron

[b5blue]

I'll try these exhaust gaskets with heat shields that stick up.  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-ms90425/overview/

[b5blue]

  Marsh is shipping Monday, just in time for my vacation week, I'm off work for 10 days starting next Saturday. (FYI: FelPro 1215 Valley Pan set from Advance Auto was much cheaper then everyone else and no shipping fees, 20.85.) I get to shopping online and forget to call local suppliers to check price and availability, Todd actually told me to do so to save shipping costs from him. 

[b5blue]

Heads are here, pics soon!  (I'm too pooped from work and tomorrow will be worse!  )

[garner7555]

Awesome!   I'm thinking very seriously about ordering some of these heads so I will be watching close to see how pleased you are with the performance.   

[moparsr2fast]

Hi Neal !

  This sounds like a fun upgrade to your ride, and a fantastic way to spend vacation time! I haven't played with these particular heads, but everything I have read about them has been positive.   

                                                                        Bob

[b5blue]

Thanks Bob!!  I'm kinda taking one for the team trying this out.  If this works it's on to A/C system! 

[b5blue]

Trying pics of new heads:

[b5blue]

more

[b5blue]

From top to show machining.

[b5blue]

  It's clear with just a bit of blending these would flow even better for a higher power build. For my conservative build with the CH4B intake and HP manifold exhaust feeding a stock exhaust system I think out of box will be a fine compromise between flow and port volume. 

[Challenger340]

They flow sufficient to support 500+ HP OOTB anyways, and a vast improvement from any factory iron head.
So I think your cost effective approach in leaving " as is", for application to your current build is very prudent 

Although I haven't flowed the "sidewinder" as yet, we've flowed dozens of Stealths(identical casting port-wise) with OOTB numbers consistently 250 to mid 260's cfm at .500" to .600" lifts, and with the application of 10 hrs "port & prep"  for service, we see very fat curves to 290-300 cfm.
just say' in....
nice to know they can grow with you later if desired, and still within a reasonable budget.

GOOD value for money Purchase !

[tan top]

 

[firefighter3931]

Heads look great Neil ! 

You should make an honest 450hp/500tq even using the factory 6-pack Hp camshaft. 



Ron

[c00nhunterjoe]

Thats going to be quite a fun street cruiser. Since you are going with a stock looking intake and exhaust manifolds, are you going to paint the intake and heads engine color? Will make quite the conversation peice when you pop the hood to most onlookers.

[b5blue]

  Thanks for the replies guys!  This is a bare bones swap so no extra paint or fixing up. My engine bay looks like crap anyway. (Keeping cost/time down as low as possible.) I do have a set of Cal Custom finned valve covers to add but that's about it. The CH4B came from Tony's painted silver so there will be no orange but the block and air cleaner. (I know the A.C. should be black wrinkle but it came with a very nice paint job.)
  Pretty and correct look have to wait, A/C and new exhaust are next. 
 

[b5blue]

Stripped down today and measured top of piston to deck height. Approximately .01 by using a feeler gauge held to the edge of the bore on top of a piston all the way up.  That would explain ping I was chasing?   

[firefighter3931]

Well, that's great news for your new build with the closed chamber aluminum heads. Resulting static compression will be over 10:1 and it will be a tight quench combination. That's a win/win scenario ! 

It certainly explains why you were having some detonation issues 

When you're setting up the ignition I would dial in 16* of base timing at idle and 34-35* total as a start point. If you hook up the vacuum advance use the "ported" vacuum nipple to pull in the extra timing under light load/hwy cruise conditions. 



Ron

[BSB67]

Stripped down today and measured top of piston to deck height. Approximately .01 by using a feeler gauge held to the edge of the bore on top of a piston all the way up.  That would explain ping I was chasing?   

Some things are still not adding up.  How many valve reliefs in the pistons.  Got a picture?

[b5blue]

2 on each piston. My crude measure may be off a bit but not much. Like I said exact piston info was lost but Chuck is very "old school" so no telling?    Pics soon! 

[b5blue]

Pic, I put my feeler gauge flat on top of the piston until one felt exactly even with the deck. (.254 MM or .01 is second thinnest gauge in the set.) You can see the valve reliefs. (I'll clean them up and look for numbering.) 

[oldschool]

You cant go wrong with Marsh Performance. Todd is a honest guy! He is building me a 600 cubic inch motor that will be ready very soon....I have seen his work in person.

[BSB67]

You should be in good shape.

Here are a couple of things to consider:
1) Clean every piston top thoroughly.
2) get a straight edge and with your feeler gauge measure each compression distance at TDC.
3) Find a gasket that gives you 0.040" piston to head clearance on your highest pistons.
4) if you have ping, consider the Bob K. cam

Cool thermostat, cool plugs and blocked cross over will help eliminate ping.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I see partial part numbers on the next piston. But as just stated, measure and order accordingly.

[vegasmike]

I bought these heads a few months ago,,my experience with them is you better be dead on with the intake manifold bolts..they are exposed inside the head.if you have one bolt giving you a problem,stop,it will leave metal shavings around the valve spring..just my experience. i had two bolts give me hell...

[b5blue]

Thanks for the heads up.

[b5blue]

PISTON #: H147CP .060
               11606-14-B
Stamped on top of each piston.
http://www.campbellenterprises.com/mopar_speed_pro_trw_forged_pistons.htm  (Listed if you scroll down.)

[garner7555]

I just received a pair of these Sidewinders yesterday.  Can't wait to try them out but my car is totally disassembled.      I will be looking forward to hearing your results and opinion!   

[b5blue]

 Yesterday I noticed some flashing (left over from being cast) sticking out inside one of the coolant holes on the end of the head. It was enough to have me whip out my Dremel and trim away. Most of the holes for pushrods had burrs left from machining that I shaved off and hit with a file. Look them over very closely they still may need a bit of loving detail. I test fit my old school Cal Custom valve covers and started cleaning/prepping/checking parts.
The plan had been to reuse my exhaust studs but they won't budge, installed carefully with sealant years ago to not to leak coolant. So new studs and nuts were ordered late yesterday. Today I'll prep the block and hope to install the heads/intake/carb so next weekend I can fire this thing up and start adjusting the Proform 750. Had I not been so burned out from work I'd been done already!   

[b5blue]

  I've mocked up the exhaust manifolds to check fit and clearance. Using Cal Custom valve covers and heat shield exhaust gaskets from Fel-Pro I wanted to see how the angled plug holes effected plug wire clearance.
  Plugs bit close on the rear of passengers side manifold but everywhere else an improvement, that angle may end up helping plug removal and install.   

[b5blue]

Well it's been a miserable month but it's back together. Going through final checks and rechecking things here and there. Firing up this weekend, wish me luck! 

[cdr]

    

[garner7555]

I bought these heads a few months ago,,my experience with them is you better be dead on with the intake manifold bolts..they are exposed inside the head.if you have one bolt giving you a problem,stop,it will leave metal shavings around the valve spring..just my experience. i had two bolts give me hell...

Thanks for the heads up.  I watched for this but I'm glad to say that all of my bolts went in with no issues.   

[garner7555]

Awesome!!      I bet you will be happy with the performance!   

[kokxville]

I'm following this thread for a while and i'm really curious about the numbers your 440 will make 

[BSB67]

I'm following this thread for a while and i'm really curious about the numbers your 440 will make 

Me too.  Has all the makings of a really nice running motor.

[b5blue]

  Unfortunately I've no way to get real numbers, just general impression from Butt-O-Meter readings.  The dizzy is set with big/small springs to give a dual rate curve and close to Ron's specs and the Proform 750 was adjusted but no changes from out of box parts.
 This head swap is driven by the "ping" issue not a quest for big power gains. The piston height explained why years of tweaking and adjusting could not resolve pinging.  

[b5blue]

  Cycled 3 times to heat/cool and around the block a few easy laps to burp cooling system. Fired right up with one small shot of starting fluid. Every thing looks normal so I'll cycle up to full temp a few more times and keep checking things. Rain all weekend has me kinda sticking close to home just in case. (Can't open it up and let it rip on wet roads.)
  The few clopping lifters I had shut up and are behaving now, I removed and disassembled each one to allow them to pump up to new adjustment. I used Comp Cams assembly lube on all of the valve train/lifter contact points and and filled with Brad Penn 20-50. The Calyx coating on the exhaust manifolds smoked and stunk the place up a bit but is settling down and looks pretty good. (We'll see if it holds up?) 

[b5blue]

  Well taken out on the now dry roads and tried to find ping like before. Gone, no trace of ping. (With no changes from last "iron head" settings.) I did manage to attract 3 cop cars in five minutes so more testing postponed. The kick down is not kicking like it should so that's next along with a mid RPM cruise speed vacuum reading to find power valve rating.