Paint: Base coat/clear coat vs. single stage paint

[66FBCharger]

Why does it seem like the majority of older car owners paint or have their cars painted basecoat / clear coat instead of single stage straight color? Is base/clear cheaper, easier to spray, better results? What are the advantages and disadvantages of basecoat /clear coat versus straight color? Is straight color hard to get?
Do the old formulas translate well to the base coat clear coat paint?

[Charger-Bodie]

For me it usually depends on whether its solid or metalic color. It's easier to make metalic look right with base.

[DC_1]

Besides the fact bc/cc is easier to blend in repairs should you have a mishap down the road, clear coats typically have better reflective properties than single stage once cured. That means with proper polishing you will get a deeper reflection, ergo a shinier looking paint job.

[Charger-Bodie]

I tend do disagree on the statement about shine. If both are buffed single stage usually has more depth. Base is dull until cleared, so it only has surface shine from the clear.

[66FBCharger]

How did the factory do the metallic with single stage? Were they just lousy jobs?

[DC_1]

I tend do disagree on the statement about shine. If both are buffed single stage usually has more depth. Base is dull until cleared, so it only has surface shine from the clear.

I disagree with your disagreement..lol

Old school guy always tend to lean to old school ways as being superior. However, I would argue that if single stage could be brought to the same depth of shine and appearance as a high quality bc/cc system most, if not all, high end builders, customizers and restorers would use that method. I would say you would find very few who are not using bc/cc unless they are attempting to stay true to the original techniques of a classic era on a restoration.

[charge69]

Well, to me, I have never seen a BC/CC paint job that doesn't tend to make the car look way shinier than originally delivered.  I always expect to see lots of chrome and modifications done in at least the "restomod" fashion.  This makes for a very shiny and beautiful car but, to me, not one you would see as a daily driver or a classic restoration.

I guess I am having a hard time conveying my thoughts here but, a shiny single-stage is always an impressive paint job.

Keep in mind, on average, a BC/CC paint job will be considerably less for the paint, the supplies are the same. I probably spent 1K in supplies to ready my Charger for paint and bought 4 gallons of single-stage R6 Red for use on it.  The manager of the paint store told us he was not really supposed to sell the paint to us as it was considered industrial paint only. I don't know, it might have a little lead in it. Anyway, a middle-of-the-road quality paint ran me $600.00 and change for EACH gallon! That is almost $2500.00 in paint alone and my helper/restorer bought a $700.00 paint gun to shoot it with! Turned out pretty good! Look below!

Anyway, just me but I prefer a well-done single-stage even though a BC/CC is cheaper and usually shinier!  YMMV

[Charger-Bodie]

FYI . I'm not some " old school " hack. I've been spraying Sikkens Autowave since 2011. I'm am totally open to the latest and greatest. My opinion is based on the results that my eyes have seen.

[DC_1]

FYI . I'm not some " old school " hack. I've been spraying Sikkens Autowave since 2011. I'm am totally open to the latest and greatest. My opinion is based on the results that my eyes have seen.

Sorry, didn't mean anything by my statement.

I'm just giving my experience and opinion.-- and btw, I shot my car with 4 coats of PPG single stage that i colour sanded and buffed to an unbelievable shine. But that was done in 2003 and now I am tearing the car apart to redo everything in bc/cc.

I owned a collision shop and painted more than a 1000 cars, granted most were just panels after collision repairs but I've also done a fair bit of complete paint jobs on everything including classics and sports cars. I still think with quality materials you can't beat bc/cc for depth of shine and clarity.

But hey, that's just my opinion! 

[viper r/t]

FYI . I'm not some " old school " hack. I've been spraying Sikkens Autowave since 2011. I'm am totally open to the latest and greatest. My opinion is based on the results that my eyes have seen.

Sorry, didn't mean anything by my statement.

I'm just giving my experience and opinion.-- and btw, I shot my car with 4 coats of PPG single stage that i colour sanded and buffed to an unbelievable shine. But that was done in 2003 and now I am tearing the car apart to redo everything in bc/cc.

I owned a collision shop and painted more than a 1000 cars, granted most were just panels after collision repairs but I've also done a fair bit of complete paint jobs on everything including classics and sports cars. I still think with quality materials you can't beat bc/cc for depth of shine and clarity.

But hey, that's just my opinion! 

[green69rt]

Without claiming any knowledge of the issue this is what I've gleaned from various threads.  BC/CC vs SS outcome depends a lot on how good the prep is and how good the painter is.  Good prep is required on both and a poor painter can make a bad paint job on either.  Having said that I also have read that on semi metallic (like my intended F5 green) that BC/CC is more forgiving because you can sand/cut/buff the clear where it's not recommended that metallic be anything but buffed so unless you are really good a SS metallic might not come out well, and it's harder to correct problems on SS metallic, right??

[Canadian1968]

Sorry but BC/CC will always out perform a single stage.

I would like to know how a person can say a solid color is "deeper" in either a BC/CC job or a SS.  You can put 2 coats or 10 coats of SS its not going to make it " deeper" it will how over make it look "heavy" ! The same goes for BC , you can put 300 coats of solid base on it won't change anything . YOu have to be careful how people use the term " deep" as well. I could describe a car as being painted in a nice "deep" red , but I am talking more of the hue of the color than anything.   If you are talking about shine, lets make it simple if the paint has being cut and buffed.  Its not going to matter , because the shine you see is the result of how well the buffing process has been performed . If the paint is untouched then there are way to many variables that can happen ( painter, temperature, air movement, flash times ect.) to effect the finish of the paint, regardless of the system used.

As for metallic  you will never be able to match the depth of a BC/CC job. You are literally applying a layer between the top finish of the paint and where the base is actually sitting . You can put 3-6-8 mm of clear coat over top of the well laid down base.  The metallic will look as if its down in the metal .

You just can't achieve that appearance with a single stage. The metallic are suspended with the pigments of the color and are applied in one step. It doesn't matter how many coats you put on because you are always covering the previous layer with the layer that you just sprayed, and you metallic will always be on the surface.  Not to mention SS metallic can not be cut and polished like BC/CC. If you polish SS metallic, you will start to actually remove flakes of the metallic from the finish...

If you take Brand X premium BC/CC and Brand X premium SS, your SS will 90% of the time be the cheaper product cost.

[jaak]

Disclaimer... I am a hobbiest, I don't do body and paint for a living.

I painted my R/T with single stage urethane. I do that every now and then on solid colors. If painting metallic I always use BC/CC. BC/CC is more forgiving, and is more user friendly than single stage, I think that is a misconception, people seem to think Single stage is easier, because its a single stage, and no clear is needed. That being said I have done a few paint jobs myself, and have checked out work of others, and when done right, I have to agree with Brian, I think the best looking paint jobs I have seen are done in single stage urethane. Especially black, if I was painting my car black, I would probably use BC/CC just as a precaution (because I work out of my own workshop and Im a hobbiest) and shit happens. But if I was paying for a black paint job.... I would want it to be painted with SS Urethane.

And while on the subject of clears, let me ask you guys a question... How many coats do you guys apply. I always spray like the tech sheet says for the clear I am using. Some say 3 coats, some hi solid clears I have used says 2 full wet coats. Reason I ask I hear people brag about laying down 10-15 coats of clear... to me that seems like a waste of time and materials. Like I said I usually put on 3 coats and its plenty thick enough to cut and buff.

[oldcarnut]

Disclaimer... I am a hobbiest, I don't do body and paint for a living.

I'll fit along with the above statement but probably several notches less and more into the house garage painter.  I've sprayed SS enamel, BC/CC, and once a metallic urethane which I clear coated on  top of that.  Really had a good shine. As an amateur,  the BC/CC was the easier and most mistake forgiving for me to do.   I also was of the understanding that BC/CC systems held up better to the elements than SS and didn't fade out near as bad requiring waxing etc so often.

[cdr]

     sometimes it is VERY hard to not say what is on my mind,some people    in my opinion single stage is the only way to go with a non metal flake color.

[Troy]

I'm gonna guess that 99% of people who aren't painters can't tell the difference.

And this question comes up a LOT all over the internet. I've learned a bunch. I have several project cars that all need paint. Some are solid colors, some are metallic, and some are worth more than the others. I can't afford to send all of them to a shop that will make them perfect. If *I* were going to try painting one myself it would be single stage in a solid color - preferably a light one. Base/clear is generally more durable but newer formulations of single stage paint have the UV blockers and some have a catalyst. I believe you can clear over most if you're happy with the final result. Base/clear is typically more expensive (more stuff to buy) but good paint is more expensive overall - mainly because it has more solids (takes less to cover). Pigments cost money so more pigment = higher price. Certain colors cost more for the same reason. I've heard differing stories on metallics since you don't want to cut into them while wet sanding/buffing (but the new ones use plastic instead of aluminum for the sparkles so it's supposed to be more forgiving). But even without that, I think it's still easy for a novice to "tiger stripe" a car using metallics.

Most original formulations of paint can no longer be found as they've changed with technology and ingredient availability. Some people have been able to replicate the factory colors with a slightly different formula than the one out of the book. I have heard that this is more pronounced with base/clear.

Troy

[Brock Lee]

Metallics are most sensitive to this. There is a reason why OEM metallic finishes are not as brilliant as most aftermarket metallics. The bc/cc system allows the flakes to fall and bond in random patterns. You can help induce this by doing super light dustings on top of the fully base coated finish. Hit it from different angles. The clear coat locks them in place. Because the flakes are not weighted by a syrupy finish, making them lay down, they reflect light from more directions. Granted, OEM finishes never looked that way..but most people are after that brilliance in a modern metallic paint job.

[Andrada]

^

i always changed my spray pattern to the dot, backed off the panel a pretty good ways and lightly dusted the mistake where the metallics didnt lay right. you can do this with base and single stage paints. you have to blend it more or less.

but with single stage be real careful doing this as you can create a run or darken the area your dusting.
then its ruined.
no fixing it till the paint is completely cured and wet sanded all the way down. its best to start over if not, like i said the panel will come out darker if you spray on top of already existing paint, and lighter where there was none.
single stage will darken the more layers of paint you put on it wether metallics or not. that or make a big nasty stripe so never try to make a whole new pass to fix a spot!!
single stage either metallics or not is a one shot kinda deal. you better nail it because no matter what you try to do to fix the mistake in the end like color sanding or buffing the panel will never look the same or as good as a panel thats sprayed perfect and left alone. youll never get that original sheen back that floats to the top of all single stage paints for the luster after you sand it off! the pressure is on with single stage.

with base coat, the base is the easy part. the base dries super fast to quickly sand runs and easier to fix and blend metallics. you dont have to worry as much because any mistakes can be fixed nothings permanent yet not till you top it with clear. you can even spray layer after layer of base, color sand and block in between to really build a strong thick even flawless base. then you can do the same with the clear! i spray two good coats of clear let dry,wet block sand with super fine grit,this gets all the imperfections and any fine trash there may be out. then spray one fine mirror coat to bond on top of that. a trick of the trade those barrett jackson million dollar painters dont want you to know.

thats the depth everyone wants and describes. makes the paint look like you could jump in and swim   youll have a thick mirror finish without ugly swirl marks from the final buffing like most body shops do.
i learned on single stage as a kid, through horrible experiences.lol but once you can spray single stage like glass you can spray it all after that.

base coat clear coat was an invention made to make things easier but its acually twice as much work and your arm will be sore the next day from making several base coat passes then several clear passes! but the end result is worth it!

thats a very tough choice to have to make if your a beginner painting but want the best look for your ride. remember you can get any color from any year or model mixed as a single stage or a base!!! when i worked in a paint bank id make your color first then add additives to make it a single stage  or a base whatever you preferred. and by old paint codes with the software we had we could mix any old mopar colors base or single.

good luck!hope this helps!

[Canadian1968]

I tend do disagree on the statement about shine. If both are buffed single stage usually has more depth. Base is dull until cleared, so it only has surface shine from the clear.

Sorry this topic really interest me. 

And this comment does as well, Single stage solid color is not translucent, so whatever coat is on top is what your eye will see.  How does this create depth or better shine?  Yes base coat is dull, but you have the ability to put that layer of clear coat between it, a lot if you want ! . But once again , with a solid color this is a bit pointless?

Interesting fact I spray Sikkens Autowave MM daily as well .

[Charger-Bodie]

Single stage paint is somewhat translucent. It has translucent resin that floats to the surface when it's sprayed . This is very similar to older lacquer finishes that looked a mile deep. And if you really want a durable finish with a lot of depth cocktail clear into the single stage color.

[cdr]

Single stage paint is somewhat translucent. It has translucent resin that floats to the surface when it's sprayed . This is very similar to older lacquer finishes that looked a mile deep. And if you really want a durable finish with a lot of depth cocktail clear into the single stage color.

                                                                 

[Lord Warlock]

As a hobby painter, with about 10 years of experience painting, still count myself as amateur.  Just not afraid to grab one of the 6 paint guns I have and spray if something needs it.  

I used single stage paint on my charger, mainly because Y3 is a solid color with no metallic or flake. Never have thought the depth of the shine was that impressive when compared to a bc/cc paint job. I have no problem spraying BC's but I do seem to run into issues with clear which tends to run on me more often than single stage or Base coats. If I was planning on showing the car regularly, i'd probably go BC/CC for the added shine factor.  As it is, I still have to do one final sand and buff, last attempt got a clog in the paper and left marks on the surface that will need to be worked out.  But hey, the car got painted and it didn't cost me 10k to do the job.  

As far as coats go, I usually go with three coats of single stage, and two coats of BC, two or three coats of clear just to ensure enough depth to handle sanding and buffing afterwards.  My first coat is usually pretty light and doesn't cover completely, the second coat is usually heavy enough to cover, then a second medium to heavy coat after that and i'm usually happy with the results.

[Canadian1968]

Single stage paint is somewhat translucent. It has translucent resin that floats to the surface when it's sprayed . This is very similar to older lacquer finishes that looked a mile deep. And if you really want a durable finish with a lot of depth cocktail clear into the single stage color.

Yes there needs to be resin in order to achieve some sort of gloss / shine . But this is only one component of the single stage formula , which as a whole is not translucent . That would be like saying the hardner you add makes it translucent .

I have added clear to a single stage to help it lay down better . But again this not creating any depth perception with a solid colour it's making your finish smoother / more gloss . I still feel people are confusing depth with actual material build ( you must agree single stage is a thicker product). You can have a car that looks like it has been dipped in a big pool of paint and the paint appears to just be running off it .  To me this is a heavy look , not deep

[Charger-Bodie]

Single stage doesn't have to be sprayed so thick that it looks like cottage cheese..... You obviously don't have much experience with single stage . How can you say that a translucent ingredient won't cause depth? I suppose the second layer of 800j doesn't add depth via transparency either?

[Canadian1968]

I never said it has to be be sprayed heavy , I said that it can . Your right I have far more experience spraying base clear because that is what is used in every progressional body shop I have been in . All the painters I have worked with use single stage for fast production, because the job is finished in 2 coats no need to put it on heavy . And usually used for jamming / engine bays ect .

If I have a cup of ketchup and I put in a teaspoon of water this ketchup is now translucent ?

Yes of course your purpose made translucent MID coat is needed to created the pearl effect of a white or red tri coat paint job . You are adding layers to create depth ! Something you cannot do with do with single stage paint process .

You put a black dot and try and cover it with your MID coat . It won't happen . Tell me a single stage that has this same property . Candy coats , tri stage , other special effect coating are all done with layers to creat the physical depth that you see !  Kind of like spraying base and then a layer of clear .

[Charger-Bodie]

I never said it has to be be sprayed heavy , I said that it can . Your right I have far more experience spraying base clear because that is what is used in every progressional body shop I have been in . All the painters I have worked with use single stage for fast production, because the job is finished in 2 coats no need to put it on heavy . And usually used for jamming / engine bays ect .

If I have a cup of ketchup and I put in a teaspoon of water this ketchup is now translucent ?

Yes of course your purpose made translucent MID coat is needed to created the pearl effect of a white or red tri coat paint job . You are adding layers to create depth ! Something you cannot do with do with single stage paint process .

You put a black dot and try and cover it with your MID coat . It won't happen . Tell me a single stage that has this same property . Candy coats , tri stage , other special effect coating are all done with layers to creat the physical depth that you see !  Kind of like spraying base and then a layer of clear .

Someday you will understand and I just hope you will remember this thread. You said yourself that you don't have experience with single stage. Get some and report back .

[Andrada]

Single stage paint is somewhat translucent. It has translucent resin that floats to the surface when it's sprayed . This is very similar to older lacquer finishes that looked a mile deep. And if you really want a durable finish with a lot of depth cocktail clear into the single stage color.

this is true the resin for the paints luster floats to the top. i learned the game on single stage and once you scratch that off the top youll never get it back.  and you...  you dont know jack about single stage but your arguing about it.    if Jr. tried to spray a coat of single stage with a bright blue heavy metallic on a dark primer sealer say... black! (if he was retarded) try to cover that black primer with one coat of single stage. try to cover it with two. try to cover it with three.... ok fouteen coats later Jr got a pretty blue metallic the black is finally gone. but by now your paints on the floor because jr thought that bright blue metallic would cover that super dark black in two coats. even in spots Jr. tried to go back and fix it became darker in that spot than the rest of the panel but why?? its not traslucent?? oh snap! it is! single stage u gotta thin the hell out of,  and jack your pressure up around the 65 psi for it not to come out lookin like a fat chicks ass. if someone doest know how to spray single stage or know much about it, they probably don't have much experience as being a hotrod painter. look were all here to learn from eachother. but when im reading somthing that just plain wrong, well it bugs me to think somebody out theres gonna think its true and ruin someones else day when they try it.

[Charger-Bodie]

Just an FYI for everyone following this thread. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with modern base clear paint finishes. My point is that there are options. And depending on conditions and other factors there is not always just one choice .

[Canadian1968]

My arguments has always been toward the solid colors. As it was claimed a deeper finish can be achieved. Your saying that if I thinned out a solid red its going to give me a deeper appearance with a single stage?  And there is something to be said for diluting a color / metallic or not to the point that it is so thinned out that it will not cover to it designed application process. Was my comment about Single stage being 100% non translucent or that you can't thin it down to nothing,wrong? Ya ok maybe it was. Do I think a single stage will still cover better than a lot of B/C systems ? All day long

The blue paint over black scenario although a totally different argument as its a metallic as you stated and not solid which is what my argument was about.
I just sprayed my engine bay in a ford french blue Single stage Lesonal , over a light grey primer that had a few burn threw spots to black E-coat.  I used 2 coats....

I personally have never seen any paint product that has a TDS sheet that ask for any more than 3 coats.  Yes some base coat system recommend a value shade sealer ( grey scale ) or sikkens uses a colored sealer system, which I still find a grey scale works better for. But i have not seen a single stage that requires this. We would take solid reds and white and spray over whatever you want with no more than 3 coats .  Am I a single stage guru no, will I gain more experience spraying single stage (as I have been told I need to ? ) , probably very little because it is just not used commonly , if barely at all , regularly in the auto collision world.   I would think there must be a good reason for that ? Obviously there must be some advantage to a BC/CC system that includes time, money, final result, ease of use, ect.   Why alot of single stage paints are made for industrial uses or cheaper alternatives to the B/C system.  I have never seen a body shop mixing room with a toner system dedicated to single stage

It has its place yes, it had its time yes, Is there better products out there yes. If you want the top notch job what you going to use? I am going with BC/ CC personally.  If I want a nice daily driver I am going with BC/CC , if I want a winter beater, or derby car ok lets play with some S/S

[Charger-Bodie]

I just don't understand how someone can have such a strong personal opinion based on nothing more than theory and second hand assumption .


And with that. I am . Done . With this . Thread.."...........

[Troy]

To be honest, I truly detest absolutes (any, all, every, etc.). There are at least three different types of single stage paint that I know of - and I know almost nothing about paint. Each has a purpose and each results in a different finish. With some tweaking, there's a tremendous range of results. Then each brand has its own pros and cons. Base/clear I'm sure has its own issues and endless possibilities. It's also not perfect every time. For a beginner, a lot of things that seem easy to a pro are show stoppers so you have to take that into account for all of them. Sooooo, broad based statements don't help anyone.

Troy

[69 OUR/TEA]

Why does it seem like the majority of older car owners paint or have their cars painted basecoat / clear coat instead of single stage straight color? Is base/clear cheaper, easier to spray, better results? What are the advantages and disadvantages of basecoat /clear coat versus straight color? Is straight color hard to get?
Do the old formulas translate well to the base coat clear coat paint?

O.K , not to drag out this thread , but I will give my opinion to the original poster and comment to others . I have been on this forum since 2005 , and can say there is only a handful here that are worthy experienced body guys/painters . So not to act like another internet/keyboard expert on the trade , I do not work in a body shop , never have , but I have been doing paint/body since the late 80's , with most of my work being restorations . The paint that I have been using has been PPG . With that , have multiple friends that are PPG rep's , so I learned tons from them ( still do ) . One of which has left being a PPG rep for another career , and also owns his own custom paint/restoration shop that I help out  from time to time  on some pretty high end stuff , with most my help doing the sanding/buffing part .

John , in your case ,if you want a nice job, you have no choice , your car is T5 , BC/CC is your only option , no arguments , no disputes  !!!! And hopefully without engaging in another debate with the other painters here , all of your panels SHOULD be on the car where they belong for the car to be based to eliminate the risk of panels not matching . Then remove to clear if you don't want tape edges/overspray etc .
BC/CC is not cheaper , depending on how much of your car you are going to be painting ( trunk/eng bay , door and door jambs , bottom of hood/trunk lid , frame rails , bottom of car , etc ) , you could be at 1-2 gallons , which are  around $450.00 +/- a gallon  of PPG DBC . Then reducers , then the clear,reducer,and catalyst ( hardener) .
But don't think single stage is cheap either cause it's not . One gallon of PPG DCC 9300 ( black) , lists for $ 735.00 a gallon .
As far as spraying , a good painter will ( should ) be able to spray them both out to a " out of the gun " factory looking job .
One more thing to ad , clear vs. single stage , clear does have a better mar resistance , and durability/longevity  compared to single stage(pigment will fade easier) , BUT ........ BUT , if you sand/buff either of the two , the UV screening goes out the window .
Don't want to confuse you , cause it doesn't apply to you ,if doing a solid color , go single stage with clear cocktailed in after the first coat , now you have the best of both worlds , the coverage and protection , but again , sand/buff it , it's gone !!!!! I don't think any paint company ( Dupont , Glasrith , Sikkens ,PPG,etc ) will warranty it if it was .
As a couple had said , and I strongly agree , I would bet 99% of you could not tell either of them apart if sprayed out to the same texture(peel).
Also strongly agree , it IS all in the sanding/buff job of how the depth/shine is exhibited !!!! We have done numerous black cars , BC/CC , straight up single stage , and single stage with clear cocktailed in it . All sanded/buffed the same , it would be hard for you to tell which one is which !!!!! BUT , my eye , if we are talking " that thick , mile deep look " , to your surprise , the straight up single stage ( PPG DCC 9300 ) is the way !!!!!  Many will argue this .

Hope this answers your question .

[69 OUR/TEA]

For me it usually depends on whether its solid or metalic color. It's easier to make metalic look right with base.

ABSOLUTELY !!!!!!  Solid color = either straight single stage or cocktailed , metallic = BC/CC !!!!!

We prefer cocktailed single stage vs. straight up single stage PPG Concept is hard to keep a wet edge , even when using a slow reducer , with the clear , it gives you that little extra time to get from side to side of the car and not have dry  edges .

[69 OUR/TEA]

Besides the fact bc/cc is easier to blend in repairs should you have a mishap down the road, clear coats typically have better reflective properties than single stage once cured. That means with proper polishing you will get a deeper reflection, ergo a shinier looking paint job.

Clarify for people ,if you did have a mishap , I.E door ding , you still(should) be  clearing the whole panel after your base coat blend . If I got a ding in the middle of my B5 blue Charger 1/4 panel , repair , blend , then sand/buff the entire 1/4 again !!!!! I def would not be doing a clear melt in .

[69 OUR/TEA]

And last , doing BC/CC , PPG DBC is 1:1 mixture , one gallon base = one gallon reducer ( solvent ). That's before the clear ,DCU 2021 is 4:1:1, with solvent , goes on !!!! The least amount of solvent you can have , the better !!!!! But , yes , most of that solvent ( reducer) is the "vehicle" to get the paint from the gun to the panel , so all 100% of that solvent is not " crammed" into the paint .
Single stage is 4:2:1 when using DCX 9 or 61 hardener , and 4:1:2 when using DU 5 or 6 . Middle number being the solvent , so that's only 1/2 gallon of solvent doing a SS job .
Any good paint job , ( unlike what you see on TV how they rush thru them ) , chop it open with your first grit , leave it to breath day(s), then the next grit , leave to breath , etc , etc . Every time you " chop " it , put your nose to the panel , you can smell solvent escaping , this is what you want . Trapped solvent will " kill" the shine you are trying to achieve .

[Charger-Bodie]

Very well put  Paul!  I agree 100% with every word you just typed.

[Dino]

You guys remember the old cellulose paints you had to cut and buff?  Man it looked like you could crawl into that paint it looked so deep!

It's been over 10 years now since I painted professionally.  The last time I painted with a gun was a few months ago using SPI paints and whatever the cheap PPG ownd paint is.  It did the job but the quality was nothing like the good stuff I used to use.  Of course I wasn't using a $500 gun either.   

[69 OUR/TEA]

You guys remember the old cellulose paints you had to cut and buff?  Man it looked like you could crawl into that paint it looked so deep!

It's been over 10 years now since I painted professionally.  The last time I painted with a gun was a few months ago using SPI paints and whatever the cheap PPG ownd paint is.  It did the job but the quality was nothing like the good stuff I used to use.  Of course I wasn't using a $500 gun either.   

Omni

[Dino]

No not that one.  I had to go look it up.  It's Shopline.

[hemi-hampton]

I think Shopline replaced Omni.  LEON.

[Brock Lee]

You guys remember the old cellulose paints you had to cut and buff?  Man it looked like you could crawl into that paint it looked so deep!

I still use it almost daily! Not on cars though. I have been using it for 22 years. It has become a specialty finish. The cellulose finishes you get today have UV blocking agents, advanced plasticizers, etc.. that what you spray today is more like what used to be acrylic lacquer. They also pulled the antifreeze trick on us and almost all brands come pre-thinned, for the same money. A gallon of high quality nitrocellulose that cost me $40 in the early 90's now costs me $120, pre-thinned..so it is like getting half as much.

[Mike DC]

        
That pre-thinned trick is a bitch.  Not only the price issue but it removes your ability to thicken it up if you wish.





Base/clear is such a PITA during resprays that I think it cancels out the gains during the initial spray.  BC might not be as popular if we all drove these cars enough to guarantee a few repairs over the years. 

[charge69]

I know nothing about paint but knew I wanted to have mine painted with single-stage paint.  My painter was more familiar with using SS .  He knew what ratio to mix the Reducer and Hardener to get a nice even coat on the Charger and we painted everything (top, bottom, inside, both sides of the hood and trunk lid, inside of doors and door jams,  ALL of it) and wet-sanded every part that would normally be seen when finished.

  The paint store manager called headquarters somewhere in Illinois to get the original formula for R6 Red and said he really was not supposed to sell it to us as it was now listed as an industrial paint! He sold it to my painter as they were good friends but it was $600.00+ a gallon and he used 4 gallons on the Charger to get it right!

No metallic in this paint, just a lot of wet-sanding and buffing along with the right final coat (not a wax, a polyurethane finish) to get it right. In person, it is a beautiful paint job and I defy anyone to say it would look better with a BC/CC paint job.

[Canadian1968]

Nice looking car ! Turned out very nice

[charge69]

Thanks for the compliment.  A LOT of work went into getting it where it is today!

[Charger4404spd]

Single stage painted in 1994. 

[charge69]

Awesome car, Charger4404spd !!  Obviously well taken care of !

[hemi-hampton]

The last Mopar I sprayed a few months ago, A Black 69 Hemi Roadrunner was in Single stage. Mainly because thats what the Customer requested. I prefer Base Coat Clear Coat myself. LEON.

[charge69]

That '69 RR turned out really nice !   To each his own on the type of paint. BC/CC usually turns out to actually be too shiny for my taste.

[Kern Dog]

For me it usually depends on whether its solid or metalic color. It's easier to make metalic look right with base.

Every car that I paint gets some amount of dust or bug in it. This requires me to sand the flaws out. You cannot sand a metallic single stage without disrupting the grain on the metallic particles. I often spray single stage with non metallic paint but prefer to clear coat over metallic.