Rebuilding 383

[Windsor]

Thanks for the reply again.
I'll skip the girdle and go for just ARP main studs.
After some reading, I'm going to also skip the rockers from PRW and look into the Comp Cams rockers or another brand.

This is my first internally balanced motor. 440source boasts about their balancing. Is it not to be trusted?

[firefighter3931]

Thanks for the reply again.
I'll skip the girdle and go for just ARP main studs.
After some reading, I'm going to also skip the rockers from PRW and look into the Comp Cams rockers or another brand.

This is my first internally balanced motor. 440source boasts about their balancing. Is it not to be trusted?

At that power level a girdle is not required. If you order the 440 source kit order it unbalanced and have your local machinist do it. The 440 Source balance job leaves a lot to be desired....i'll leave it at that.  

Basicly, you're building a 440 in a smaller B series platform. When sizing the cam think 440. For the type of build and usage I would go with a Lunati VooDoo 268/276 cam and a set of the Johnson lifters. A new factory rocker arm with the mancini heavy duty chrome moly replacement pushrods is all you need. The stock style non adjustables are fine with the RPM heads. A roller rocker is not required and the money could be spent elsewhere. The stock RPM valvesprings are compatible with all these parts.  

You'll want a 1 7/8 in header (TTI) along with a free flowing exhaust. For the intake I'd go with a Performer RPM dual plane. I'd go with a Proform 750dp street series carb with electric choke. This combo will idle nice and make lots of manifold vacuum for easy tuning and a PB booster if required.

Here's a good build thread to read through complete with dyno numbers. I'd expect this one to make the same kind of power as Bill's. The only difference being the 6-pack vs the high rise dual plane & single 4bbl.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,52477.0.html


Ron

[Windsor]

Thanks Ron.
My question on the stock stamped rockers. I've been reading, in a few places, that stock are ~1.45 ratio. Would it be beneficial in the long run to have the 1.5 in either roller or non roller adjustable? I am also interested in the wear that I saw in the first set, and second set (purchased from another member). Both had wear on the bottom and back of the rockers. The first set also had wear on the tip with one having a hole.
The new set that I have on there now look fine, with just a bit of shine showing on the tip.
I will be selling the parts I'm taking off to make up some of the cost. So, like I said, I'd rather spend money up front than have to pull it out/apart again later to change something that would have been better done the first time.

[firefighter3931]

The call on whether to run an adjustable rocker arm is ultimately yours. In my opinion they're not required for the type of cam profile you will be running. I generally consider .530 valve lift as the cutoff for OEM rockers but I know of a few guys that run them with the Comp XEHL lobes which are aggressive and approach .550 lift. In the past I've used brand new OEM rockers when upgrading to a more aggressive lobe with increased spring pressures....no problems. The bigger issue is see is with the factory pushrods which are prone to deflection under increased loads. Those need to be upgraded when spring loads exceed 300 lbs. Mancini carries these in chrome moly with heavier walled tubing and they are great. 

I think the 1.45 ratio thing is passed around as gospel....some guy had a set that he measured years ago and they came out at that ratio and voila...all stock rockers are inferior. I've checked two sets over the years and both were 1.50 or better so take that for what it's worth. 

The only time I'll consider an adjustable rocker is for a solid flat tappet or solid roller. I like the simplicity of the factory setup and it has proven to be reliable (for me). I bet a lot of the failures are guys running old rockers that have 70K + miles of wear. 

There are lots of guys running that VooDoo hydraulic grind with stock valvetrains. 

If you had to have a set of adjustables my first choice would be a set of the old crane/isky ductile iron adjustables. They are bulletproof !


Ron

[Windsor]

Ok. Thanks for the info. Ill listen to the folks who have more experience and use the $ on other parts.
I don't have the stock pushrods anymore, don't remember if they are comp or crane. Replaced them when I put the new rockers and shafts in.

[firefighter3931]

These are the ones I like from Mancini. The RPM heads have ~330 lbs of spring pressure so an upgrade is in order. 

http://www.manciniracing.com/hydbchromemoly.html

If yours are of a similar construction and rated for increased loads you can just re-use them. I'd make sure though 

Run the good oil too....Brad Penn semi synthetic has all the good stuff and an excellent EP package. That's all I've been using for several years now. 



Ron

[Windsor]

Would you recommend 10w-30 or a different weight?  Also, is there a supplier that has the best prices? I think I've seen that brand on Summit.

Before the motor goes back in, I'll replace the TC. It is a stock replacement, whatever stall speed that would be. Any particular stall I should look into? I'll also look into another set of gears for the diff. Keep the 2.76 for long trips, and get ?.?? for daily driving.

[firefighter3931]

Would you recommend 10w-30 or a different weight?  Also, is there a supplier that has the best prices? I think I've seen that brand on Summit.

Before the motor goes back in, I'll replace the TC. It is a stock replacement, whatever stall speed that would be. Any particular stall I should look into? I'll also look into another set of gears for the diff. Keep the 2.76 for long trips, and get ?.?? for daily driving.

Oil weight depends on bearing clearance(s)....I run the 20/50 BP but my main & rod clearances are .0025 and the oil pressure is 50psi at hot idle. 

The stock converter for a 383 is an 11in and should stall at approx. 2500 or so behind that engine which would be about right if you choose to run that VooDoo cam. A buddy has a similar build to yours and installed a Hughes 11in street converter and is very pleased with the results. Very efficient and lights the tires up at will. 

Tire diameter will determine the optimum gear ratio. I'd say that if you plan to run a 28in tall skin a set of 3.55's would be a good choice. 



Ron

[Windsor]

I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

[Windsor]

Parts list is getting shorter, parts pile is getting bigger. Heads, intake, carb, cam/lifters, gaskets. More will be ordered on Monday. Trying to spread it out a little so I don't drain my house/property funds too fast. Not that I am going to be building in the rain/snow and low temps anyways.
I went ahead and ordered the Edelbrock top end kit, plus the Lunati cam. I am going to sell the edelbrock cam/lifters/timing chain for a bit less than what summit offeres it for to even out for the Lunati cam and a comp timing chain.
Also, got my 906 heads and MP single plane sold to put money back into the fray.

My 8.75 is fitted with the 741 chunk with 2.76 gears. Will a 741, with 3.55, be strong enough? Also, is there a difference in the snout length? I don't have the option of going to the junk yard to get another driveline to just toss in, and I'd prefer not to have to get this one cut down again or another built. Keeping in mind that I currently, and will continue to run passenger tires.

[firefighter3931]

Good progress....sounds like it's coming together nicely ! 

As long as you run a street tire with an auto trans you won't break a 741. The problems start with sticky tires....once they dead hook parts start to break. There's no chance this thing will ever dead hook on a street tire. You'll be frying the tires at half throttle. 

Dimensionally all of the 8.75 centersections are identical and therefore interchangeable. The yoke will be in the same spot no matter what center (741/742/489) you run. 

The 741 gets a bad rap due to the reduced pinion diameter but it's still plenty strong. I've never seen a 741 broke at the pinion. Usually it's the ring gear that breaks or a cap gets blown off. The pinion diameter at it's smallest location is the same size as a Dana 60's & we all know how strong those are. Back in the early Max Wedge days the 741 was the centersection that was used and they took a lot of abuse. 



Ron

[BSB67]

Parts list is getting shorter, parts pile is getting bigger. Heads, intake, carb, cam/lifters, gaskets. More will be ordered on Monday. Trying to spread it out a little so I don't drain my house/property funds too fast. Not that I am going to be building in the rain/snow and low temps anyways.
I went ahead and ordered the Edelbrock top end kit, plus the Lunati cam. I am going to sell the edelbrock cam/lifters/timing chain for a bit less than what summit offeres it for to even out for the Lunati cam and a comp timing chain.
Also, got my 906 heads and MP single plane sold to put money back into the fray.

My 8.75 is fitted with the 741 chunk with 2.76 gears. Will a 741, with 3.55, be strong enough? Also, is there a difference in the snout length? I don't have the option of going to the junk yard to get another driveline to just toss in, and I'd prefer not to have to get this one cut down again or another built. Keeping in mind that I currently, and will continue to run passenger tires.

I think I can sense your excitement.  Hell, I'm excited for you.  Enjoy the journey.

[Windsor]

I'd be more excited if I was able to work. That way I could build the motor and my house. But, one at a time I guess.

Thanks for the info Ron.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Had a 741/spool/ 3.91's in my belvedere. Only thing it broke was axles on stickies. 741 will be fine in your case. Cant wait to see pictures and videos.

[Windsor]

Are these the crane rockers you referred to?
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/crn-64770-16

[firefighter3931]

Are these the crane rockers you referred to?
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/crn-64770-16

Yes, Those are the one's I'd use if the valvetrain need to be adjustable. Those used to sell for ~ $200 not all that long ago 

You can often find them used on E-bay or in the classifieds for less than half of that "new" pricing. 



Ron

[Windsor]

I was thinking about it, and decided that I would go ahead and get adjustable arms. That way in the future, if I decide to get a bigger cam, I won't have to spend the money again.
Yeah, used set on ebay for $300. For the price difference, I'd rather have new. Just something hitting my mind about doing all this to the engine and using used parts. Even if I have to sell one of my Mosins to help with $ for it.
Through Summit, I can get about $40 off.

[firefighter3931]

I can't argue with that logic 

Those Crane ductiles will last forever and you're good to go if you decide to upgrade the cam   

Looking forward to the build 


Ron

[c00nhunterjoe]

Shame you live in oregon, depending on the mosin, i would consider that trade.

[Windsor]

It's a flame thrower.
my other one is a little longer and has an A2 style birdcage. Offered it to my cousin for the price of the add-ons.

[Windsor]

Ron, would you suggest a specific rocker shaft? Or will a stock replacement be good?

[firefighter3931]

I like the hardened chrome rocker shafts from Mancini 

http://www.manciniracing.com/manbrbharchr.html


Ron

[c00nhunterjoe]

Id trade. Too bad you are so.ething like 1000 miles away. Lol

[Windsor]

Ok. Ordered more parts today. Ordered the rockers, timing chain, and some fasteners. Would have ordered more, but I need to go get new tires for my truck tomorrow. Ill order the majority of remaining stuff needed in march and rotating assembly after rough bore is completed (funds are already set aside for that).

I'm going to skip balancing as mentioned and have it balanced by the builder. Do y'all think I'd get better quality from Mancini, or 440 source?
Ill put up parts pictures tomorrow if I get a chance.
Ill be going out to my property next week, gotta figure out where to build my driveway that will make it so I won't have to drive my car through the ditch like I do my truck.

[Windsor]

Well, here's an update. Motor is build and has been broken in and run on the dyno. I'll post all numbers when I get the print out when I pick the motor up. I don't remember the rpms (been a couple weeks), but it ran 479hp (or maybe it was 497) and 502tq if I remember right.
Some of the issues, the crane rockers came with 9 right and 7 left, so had to get another left sent out.  Can't get rid of the rear main leak. Tried the seal that came with the billet retainer, also tried two of the Fel-Pro performance seals. He said he tried shimming the seal but it made it worse.
I decided I will just have a leaking motor instead of keep throwing money at a problem that can't be guaranteed to get fixed. 10 drops over 15 min of run time according to the builder. But hey, it will always have fresh oil. I am going to install a oil level sensor in the new pan when I extend it to gain capacity.  I should be picking it up next week then it will be going on a stand for the 3-12 months that it will take for my arm to recover from surgery.
I picked up a Dakota that I will use the frame of under my car. So, engine won't be going back into the car until the frame swap is done. Then I will modify the pan to the new frame and other components.
As of pretty much January, everything has been put on hold or slowed down while dealing with the VA for my back and arm. I'll be going slow on most everything for a while.