Rebuilding 383

[Windsor]

Well folks, I have gotten tired of fighting my motor. Replaced the rear main seal and oil pump. Oil pressure got maxed out my gauge at 80+ cold. Replaced HV oil pump with a standard and got it down to 60. Idled for 10 minutes to warm it up and about a quart of oil was in the drip pan. Since I have to yank it again to change the seal, I'm just goig to build the motor and get it fixed right. The motor will be out and stripped down tomorrow and taken to get tanked on Monday.
I am looking at the rotating assemblies from 440 source and a couple others. Main use will remain as a cruiser, with 727 (stage II kit installed), 2.76 rear gears, and 27.25" tires (taller possible in the future). While the 438 would be a decent improvement, the 496 would cause a bigger smile. Main question about that is longevity. I'm not looking at taking it down the track, so RPMs will be in the 3k range cruising with 4k the max I'd probably let it get to.
If anyone has some info to help me, I'd greatly appreciate it. Not against buying a shortblock/long block/running built motor, but the market around here isn't all that great.
Right now, I'm getting a list of machine shops together to figure out who to go with.

[BLK 68 R/T]

Are you sure it's the rear main seal leaking?? sounds like it could be the rear cam bearing plug leaking?

[lasvegas69charg]

I am in the same boat "Windsor".  My timing cover was leaking so as I was taking the harmonic balancer off the tool got pressed into the crank. I put this car together 3 years ago and did everything to it except a stroker kit. That is when I decided to drop the motor and stroke it. I called Kim at 440 source and was originally going with a 438 stroker kit. After talking to him I ended up buying the 496. At first I was concerned because this is a complete numbers matching and I am the second owner of the car. After talking with Kim at 440 source he said I would be ok with the 496 and a bigger smile. I also decided to use the march pulley serptine setup and tti ceramic coating headers and 3" x pipe while I'm at it. It's currently at the machine shop having the short block work done. I will put the rest together myself. To go along with the stroker kit I already had(edlebrock top end kit) edlebrock 84cc al heads with the 7194 edlebrock cam, dual plane intake and msd atomic fuel injection. It will be mated with the current number matching 727 stage 2 b&m Trans and 3.55 auburn locker rear end. Hope this helps.

[Challenger340]

Well folks, I have gotten tired of fighting my motor. Replaced the rear main seal and oil pump. Oil pressure got maxed out my gauge at 80+ cold. Replaced HV oil pump with a standard and got it down to 60. Idled for 10 minutes to warm it up and about a quart of oil was in the drip pan. Since I have to yank it again to change the seal, I'm just goig to build the motor and get it fixed right. The motor will be out and stripped down tomorrow and taken to get tanked on Monday.
I am looking at the rotating assemblies from 440 source and a couple others. Main use will remain as a cruiser, with 727 (stage II kit installed), 2.76 rear gears, and 27.25" tires (taller possible in the future). While the 438 would be a decent improvement, the 496 would cause a bigger smile. Main question about that is longevity. I'm not looking at taking it down the track, so RPMs will be in the 3k range cruising with 4k the max I'd probably let it get to.
If anyone has some info to help me, I'd greatly appreciate it. Not against buying a shortblock/long block/running built motor, but the market around here isn't all that great.
Right now, I'm getting a list of machine shops together to figure out who to go with.

80 psi with a HV Pump ? and 60 psi with a std pump ? Those numbers seem awfully high, what weight of Oil were you using ? New rebuild or old engine ?

BB Mopars rear mains are a little tricky because quite often the groove in the block that holds the seal is not concentric with the Crank, and is machined offset slightly, causing a condition where the seal only partially contacts on the Crank, and leaves a portion of the seal NOT in contact, hence a big leak.
Changing the seal without correcting for this "offset" does little, and will even make the leak worse sometimes.
Nonetheless,
whats done is done, and if you are moving on to a Stroker then so be it.

Might be some good reading here for you regarding Mopar "stock" Blocks before you finalize your Stroker path
http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm

Personally, I am not a fan of the larger closer to 500" packages in the 383 Blocks, largely due to Block strength, angularity and wall loading on the 1.32 C.D. Pistons. They can be "noisy" even on the 3.75 stroke stuff(451) without compounding the problem on a 4.250" Stroke.
A BB Mopar Torque Plate should be top of your list in the hunt for a Shop familiar with Mopars, and Honing W/some hot honing techniques may be beneficial.
I know you are just intending a "driver", but always many considerations to look at.

Good Luck with the project !

[Windsor]

Are you sure it's the rear main seal leaking?? sounds like it could be the rear cam bearing plug leaking?

Cam plug got replaced when the seal got replaced. Good, clean, fit with a new plug (have 9 spares). Either way I am tired of pulling it, replacing sh**, and putting it back in just to have to pull it again.
I have been looking into new heads to go along with all the work. One of my concerns is exhaust port location. My headers are custom built and a royal PITA to do. I do have the 2" primaries (which eddy says is needed), but is there any difference on height of the exhaust ports from the deck.
For ignition, I'd like to stick with the Firecore setup. I'll stay with a carb for now, the engine build is taking away from my new house fund (will set me back 10 months on it but my land will still be there when I get back to it). But, one day, I'll probably look into an injection setup.
Challenger340, it is an old engine. Which was running well before the rear main seal went. After that, oil pressure has been high, which makes me think I have to chase oil passages. Oil is 10w30, with napa gold filter.
The shop I'm taking the block to for cleaning will be only that, get it clean. I'm trying to find a shop with torque plates and a good history of working with these engines. My local shops don't exactly instill high confidence when it comes to major work.
If anyone in CA/OR//WA knows of one, I am more than willing to drive.

[Windsor]

Got it stripped down today, running a bot slow due to my back acting up. There were a few surprises.

[Windsor]

Cam bearings were falling apart. Cracks, chips, chunks missing. Cam itself is still good. Bearing surfaces have a couple light scratches, but looks like it will polish up pretty easily. Lobes are wearing well.

[Windsor]

Crankshaft needs a little polishing. #1 oil hole chamfer has a small burr, so there was a groove in the #1 connecting  rod bearing. It need a good polishing, but it doesn't have any noticable major issues.

[ACUDANUT]

That baby needs a rebuild.

[Windsor]

Forgot to mention. Cam plug bore was dry.
The crank has an R on one of the counter weights, and a 10 on another.

[Windsor]

That baby needs a rebuild.

Yep. As soon as I saw the cam bearings, I wasn't as pissed about the rear main seal leaking. Would have been even more of a pita if one of the bearings had given up the ghost while driving.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Just because it "looks good" doesnt mean it is. You should have measured lift and duration of the cam with a degree wheel if you have any intentions of reusing it, especially since i assume you are going to drop new lifters on a used cam. Not to try and sound negative, but if you are coming this far and took it apart because it has issues, why consider reusing most of the parts?

[Windsor]

Only thing getting re used is the block and oil pan (if it will clear the new crank).  If I'm dipping into my savings to rebuild, it's getting done right . I'm not that much of a nincompoop.
I am going to offer the parts (rotating assembly, cam/lifters, rebuilt heads with hardened seats with rocker assemblies) for a fair price later on.

[Windsor]

Thanks for looking out though. I can honestly say I know people who have done that, used worn parts in a rebuild. Doesn't work well sometimes.
Block is at the shop getting the cam bearings removed, then tanked and magnaflux.

[BSB67]

nincompoop.

I wondered how it was spelled.  Not a word you hears every day anymore.

[Windsor]

Anyone have experience with Daves Engine Machining in Newark CA? Was talking with someone today and they said check it out. Found a FB link, but only website was for a shop in Ohio.

[heyoldguy]

Just got your PM and have responded.............

[Windsor]

Picked the block up this afternoon. Hot tank got rid of the grime and almost all of the 3rd layer of paint. Original paint (blue) and 2nd layer (red) are mostly there with a couple spots where it is down to bare.
He got the cam bearings (split type) out, got out a soft plug that had been knocked in at some point in time, tanked it, and magnaflux.
Got it home, wiped it down with fogging oil, and bagged it.

[ACUDANUT]

I love 383's.  Great engine. 

[heyoldguy]

Ah.......so I'm a little late suggesting it be sonic checked?

[Challenger340]

Ah.......so I'm a little late suggesting it be sonic checked?

As always... GREAT ADVICE Jim  

IMO, someone should also inform the OP, since he wishes a "3K cruiser with a max of 4K he would let it go to" ?
that,
those exact conditions.... ie: loading the engine down lower rpm, is EXTREMELY hard on Connecting Rods and Cylinder Walls with that angularity(4.25 stroke on the 6.535 Rod 383 Block)
I would like to second the get it sonic tested advice !

I think the noise from the Piston slap in a "cruiser" with full exhaust may become very annoying ?

[Windsor]

After some consideration, this is what I am looking at. Whatcha think.
BLOCK: 1968 "B" 383
ROTATING ASSEMBLY: 383>>438 Stroker kit from 440 source.
3.750" stroke, 6.760" rod, bore TBD. Flat top pistons.
HEADS: Edelbrock Performer RPM 60929
210cc Intake Ports, 84cc Combustion Chambers, 2.14"/1.81" Valves, 1.55" Hydraulic Flat Tappet Valve Springs.
PRW 1.5 rocker arms.
CAM: Edelbrock Performer RPM 7194
Operating Range 1500-6500 RPM
Duration Advertised 300° Intake/308° Exhaust Duration @ .050'' 238° Intake/246° Exhaust
Lift @ Valve .480'' Intake/.495'' Exhaust. Lift @ Cam .320'' Intake/.330'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle 110°
Intake Centerline 105° Intake Timing @ .050" Open 14° BTDC, Close 44° ABDC
Exhaust Timing @ .050" Open 58° BBDC, Close 8° ATDC
INTAKE: Edelbrock Performer RPM 7186.
Dual plane. Square bore.
CARB: Edelbrock Thunder Series AVS 1813.
800CFM. Square bore.
MISC: 440 source main stud girdle. 440 source billet rear seal cap

[Challenger340]

 * Just so you know, the 7194 Cam doesn't go anywhere near 6,500 rpm. Peak power is more like 5,500 rpm on ootb Eddy's, not much point revíng any higher after that.

* You may experience Hood to Air Cleaner issues using the Performer rpm 7186.  A Holley Street Dominator #300-14 will clear.

* You do not need a main Stud girdle, ARP Main Studs by themselves are more than adequate.

* I am not a fan of the Edelbrock carbs, but then again, I can't rec anything better from experience either ? Hopefully someone else has real world advice.

* The Billet rear main seal housings are NOT the cure ! and will do NOTHING to stop Oil leaks.
The problem is people not observing when installing the neoprene seals.
They are NOT drop in ?
Remember here, these Blocks were produced with "Rope " seals originally ? 

To explain,
The rear seal "groove" where the seal sits in the Blocks is NOT concentric with the mainline on these blocks. When assembling, you need to observe the "lip" on the seal's contact with the Crank,(or lack thereof), then offset the seal to the offending side that is NOT contacting the crank from the parting line, and then gently apply some pressure over on the retainer to that side as you tighten the bolts to insure the "entire" seal contacts the Crank.
Very common problem present to some degree in 90 % of Blocks, and NO "Billet"... "Titanium"... or 'GOLD" for that matter Rear Seal Retainer will cure good old observation and know how. I dunno how many people I have seen purchase expensive seal retainers only to find it still LEAKS !

just say'in....
That is probably WHY you had problems with rear main leaks in your Block before ? The "Groove" is offset.

Next time, when the crank arrives, put the Crank in the Block on the bearings, with the top half of the seal in place. Then take a flashlight and look closely at the "lips" on the seal side to side.
On one side the lip will be compressed and sealing against the crank...... but on the other side, you will "see" what I am talking about ? Very little to NO contact(or sealing) with the crank.

Good Luck with the build.

Bob @ rmp.

[Windsor]

Thanks for the reply Challenger340.
As far as cam, is there one that would be recommended instead? Like I mentioned before, this car is a cruiser that wont see the higher RPMs much or for long periods.

I am not concerned about hood clearance. From the top of my MP intake, I have a foot easy before the hood and about 7" to the bottom of my horn trumpets.

Studs alone being adequate, would a girdle still be good insurance and strengthening aid.

I have had better luck with Edelbrock carbs than I have Holley/Holley type carbs. Before removing the engine, I had the 1405 installed. Before that, a mighty demon which gave me some issues. Not to mention, the 1813 is free with the top end kit. I just haven't used a thunder series, so I don't know how well they do.

Onto the rear seal... I actually learned about the off center issue when I did the seal the first time, did a google search and your write up is what I followed. 1/4" offset from flange, use cap to walk the seal into place, silicone down the sides. The reason I was thinking the billet one, is that it is a little wider than the OE and the side could be machined down a little to help get the seal seated right without leaving as much of a gap on the other side.

Are the PRW rocker arms any good? Or should I look into another brand?  Edelbrock says that the heads need the adjustable rockers, so the new rocker assemblies I put on the 906s will be staying with them.

I am just trying to cover all the bases and prevent as many possible problems as I can. Its 26 miles from where I am going to be building my house to the nearest "town", and I use that word loosely. Id prefer to not have issues when I get the place built and move out there.

[Challenger340]

Thanks for the reply Challenger340.
As far as cam, is there one that would be recommended instead? Like I mentioned before, this car is a cruiser that wont see the higher RPMs much or for long periods.
Nothing wrong with that Cam, it does work very well. I was just pointing out that peak power will occur around 5500-5600 rpm with un-ported eddy's.... so no point thinking it is a "6500" rpm Cam and trying to rev there ? That can be excessively hard on parts for no reason, just to go slower.

I am not concerned about hood clearance. From the top of my MP intake, I have a foot easy before the hood and about 7" to the bottom of my horn trumpets.

Studs alone being adequate, would a girdle still be good insurance and strengthening aid.
IMO Nope.
I've line-honed and installed dozens of girdles on 600+ hp applications, with very limited benefits seen when they come back for freshening after years of service.
Girdles do nothing to "capture" the lateral forces on the caps. I don't wish to get too bogged down here, but you are a sub 600 hp build, most probably even below 550 with stock eddy heads, and you can research on the net for yourself(maybe moparts), but for the money spent I would skip the girdle at your power level, and invest in getting it balanced properly once your kit arrives from 440 source, which reduces parasitic stresses.

I have had better luck with Edelbrock carbs than I have Holley/Holley type carbs. Before removing the engine, I had the 1405 installed. Before that, a mighty demon which gave me some issues. Not to mention, the 1813 is free with the top end kit. I just haven't used a thunder series, so I don't know how well they do.
Yeah, I ain't no carb expert for street stuff ? maybe pm Ron(Firefighter3931) and get his opinion, he has REAL world experience.

Onto the rear seal... I actually learned about the off center issue when I did the seal the first time, did a google search and your write up is what I followed. 1/4" offset from flange, use cap to walk the seal into place, silicone down the sides. The reason I was thinking the billet one, is that it is a little wider than the OE and the side could be machined down a little to help get the seal seated right without leaving as much of a gap on the other side.
The procedure I described has always worked for me. I have never had a leak, so I never tried any of the aftermarket billet seal retainers, just didn't see the point.

Are the PRW rocker arms any good? Or should I look into another brand?  Edelbrock says that the heads need the adjustable rockers, so the new rocker assemblies I put on the 906s will be staying with them.
I haven't used them, so I can offer no info.

I am just trying to cover all the bases and prevent as many possible problems as I can. Its 26 miles from where I am going to be building my house to the nearest "town", and I use that word loosely. Id prefer to not have issues when I get the place built and move out there.
And I applaud you for doing so. It is a very smart man who gathers as much info as possible so as to make decisions from an educated standpoint. Good for You !