Rebuilding 383

[Windsor]

Well folks, I have gotten tired of fighting my motor. Replaced the rear main seal and oil pump. Oil pressure got maxed out my gauge at 80+ cold. Replaced HV oil pump with a standard and got it down to 60. Idled for 10 minutes to warm it up and about a quart of oil was in the drip pan. Since I have to yank it again to change the seal, I'm just goig to build the motor and get it fixed right. The motor will be out and stripped down tomorrow and taken to get tanked on Monday.
I am looking at the rotating assemblies from 440 source and a couple others. Main use will remain as a cruiser, with 727 (stage II kit installed), 2.76 rear gears, and 27.25" tires (taller possible in the future). While the 438 would be a decent improvement, the 496 would cause a bigger smile. Main question about that is longevity. I'm not looking at taking it down the track, so RPMs will be in the 3k range cruising with 4k the max I'd probably let it get to.
If anyone has some info to help me, I'd greatly appreciate it. Not against buying a shortblock/long block/running built motor, but the market around here isn't all that great.
Right now, I'm getting a list of machine shops together to figure out who to go with.

[BLK 68 R/T]

Are you sure it's the rear main seal leaking?? sounds like it could be the rear cam bearing plug leaking?

[lasvegas69charg]

I am in the same boat "Windsor".  My timing cover was leaking so as I was taking the harmonic balancer off the tool got pressed into the crank. I put this car together 3 years ago and did everything to it except a stroker kit. That is when I decided to drop the motor and stroke it. I called Kim at 440 source and was originally going with a 438 stroker kit. After talking to him I ended up buying the 496. At first I was concerned because this is a complete numbers matching and I am the second owner of the car. After talking with Kim at 440 source he said I would be ok with the 496 and a bigger smile. I also decided to use the march pulley serptine setup and tti ceramic coating headers and 3" x pipe while I'm at it. It's currently at the machine shop having the short block work done. I will put the rest together myself. To go along with the stroker kit I already had(edlebrock top end kit) edlebrock 84cc al heads with the 7194 edlebrock cam, dual plane intake and msd atomic fuel injection. It will be mated with the current number matching 727 stage 2 b&m Trans and 3.55 auburn locker rear end. Hope this helps.

[Challenger340]

Well folks, I have gotten tired of fighting my motor. Replaced the rear main seal and oil pump. Oil pressure got maxed out my gauge at 80+ cold. Replaced HV oil pump with a standard and got it down to 60. Idled for 10 minutes to warm it up and about a quart of oil was in the drip pan. Since I have to yank it again to change the seal, I'm just goig to build the motor and get it fixed right. The motor will be out and stripped down tomorrow and taken to get tanked on Monday.
I am looking at the rotating assemblies from 440 source and a couple others. Main use will remain as a cruiser, with 727 (stage II kit installed), 2.76 rear gears, and 27.25" tires (taller possible in the future). While the 438 would be a decent improvement, the 496 would cause a bigger smile. Main question about that is longevity. I'm not looking at taking it down the track, so RPMs will be in the 3k range cruising with 4k the max I'd probably let it get to.
If anyone has some info to help me, I'd greatly appreciate it. Not against buying a shortblock/long block/running built motor, but the market around here isn't all that great.
Right now, I'm getting a list of machine shops together to figure out who to go with.

80 psi with a HV Pump ? and 60 psi with a std pump ? Those numbers seem awfully high, what weight of Oil were you using ? New rebuild or old engine ?

BB Mopars rear mains are a little tricky because quite often the groove in the block that holds the seal is not concentric with the Crank, and is machined offset slightly, causing a condition where the seal only partially contacts on the Crank, and leaves a portion of the seal NOT in contact, hence a big leak.
Changing the seal without correcting for this "offset" does little, and will even make the leak worse sometimes.
Nonetheless,
whats done is done, and if you are moving on to a Stroker then so be it.

Might be some good reading here for you regarding Mopar "stock" Blocks before you finalize your Stroker path
http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm

Personally, I am not a fan of the larger closer to 500" packages in the 383 Blocks, largely due to Block strength, angularity and wall loading on the 1.32 C.D. Pistons. They can be "noisy" even on the 3.75 stroke stuff(451) without compounding the problem on a 4.250" Stroke.
A BB Mopar Torque Plate should be top of your list in the hunt for a Shop familiar with Mopars, and Honing W/some hot honing techniques may be beneficial.
I know you are just intending a "driver", but always many considerations to look at.

Good Luck with the project !

[Windsor]

Are you sure it's the rear main seal leaking?? sounds like it could be the rear cam bearing plug leaking?

Cam plug got replaced when the seal got replaced. Good, clean, fit with a new plug (have 9 spares). Either way I am tired of pulling it, replacing sh**, and putting it back in just to have to pull it again.
I have been looking into new heads to go along with all the work. One of my concerns is exhaust port location. My headers are custom built and a royal PITA to do. I do have the 2" primaries (which eddy says is needed), but is there any difference on height of the exhaust ports from the deck.
For ignition, I'd like to stick with the Firecore setup. I'll stay with a carb for now, the engine build is taking away from my new house fund (will set me back 10 months on it but my land will still be there when I get back to it). But, one day, I'll probably look into an injection setup.
Challenger340, it is an old engine. Which was running well before the rear main seal went. After that, oil pressure has been high, which makes me think I have to chase oil passages. Oil is 10w30, with napa gold filter.
The shop I'm taking the block to for cleaning will be only that, get it clean. I'm trying to find a shop with torque plates and a good history of working with these engines. My local shops don't exactly instill high confidence when it comes to major work.
If anyone in CA/OR//WA knows of one, I am more than willing to drive.

[Windsor]

Got it stripped down today, running a bot slow due to my back acting up. There were a few surprises.

[Windsor]

Cam bearings were falling apart. Cracks, chips, chunks missing. Cam itself is still good. Bearing surfaces have a couple light scratches, but looks like it will polish up pretty easily. Lobes are wearing well.

[Windsor]

Crankshaft needs a little polishing. #1 oil hole chamfer has a small burr, so there was a groove in the #1 connecting  rod bearing. It need a good polishing, but it doesn't have any noticable major issues.

[ACUDANUT]

That baby needs a rebuild.

[Windsor]

Forgot to mention. Cam plug bore was dry.
The crank has an R on one of the counter weights, and a 10 on another.

[Windsor]

That baby needs a rebuild.

Yep. As soon as I saw the cam bearings, I wasn't as pissed about the rear main seal leaking. Would have been even more of a pita if one of the bearings had given up the ghost while driving.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Just because it "looks good" doesnt mean it is. You should have measured lift and duration of the cam with a degree wheel if you have any intentions of reusing it, especially since i assume you are going to drop new lifters on a used cam. Not to try and sound negative, but if you are coming this far and took it apart because it has issues, why consider reusing most of the parts?

[Windsor]

Only thing getting re used is the block and oil pan (if it will clear the new crank).  If I'm dipping into my savings to rebuild, it's getting done right . I'm not that much of a nincompoop.
I am going to offer the parts (rotating assembly, cam/lifters, rebuilt heads with hardened seats with rocker assemblies) for a fair price later on.

[Windsor]

Thanks for looking out though. I can honestly say I know people who have done that, used worn parts in a rebuild. Doesn't work well sometimes.
Block is at the shop getting the cam bearings removed, then tanked and magnaflux.

[BSB67]

nincompoop.

I wondered how it was spelled.  Not a word you hears every day anymore.

[Windsor]

Anyone have experience with Daves Engine Machining in Newark CA? Was talking with someone today and they said check it out. Found a FB link, but only website was for a shop in Ohio.

[heyoldguy]

Just got your PM and have responded.............

[Windsor]

Picked the block up this afternoon. Hot tank got rid of the grime and almost all of the 3rd layer of paint. Original paint (blue) and 2nd layer (red) are mostly there with a couple spots where it is down to bare.
He got the cam bearings (split type) out, got out a soft plug that had been knocked in at some point in time, tanked it, and magnaflux.
Got it home, wiped it down with fogging oil, and bagged it.

[ACUDANUT]

I love 383's.  Great engine. 

[heyoldguy]

Ah.......so I'm a little late suggesting it be sonic checked?

[Challenger340]

Ah.......so I'm a little late suggesting it be sonic checked?

As always... GREAT ADVICE Jim  

IMO, someone should also inform the OP, since he wishes a "3K cruiser with a max of 4K he would let it go to" ?
that,
those exact conditions.... ie: loading the engine down lower rpm, is EXTREMELY hard on Connecting Rods and Cylinder Walls with that angularity(4.25 stroke on the 6.535 Rod 383 Block)
I would like to second the get it sonic tested advice !

I think the noise from the Piston slap in a "cruiser" with full exhaust may become very annoying ?

[Windsor]

After some consideration, this is what I am looking at. Whatcha think.
BLOCK: 1968 "B" 383
ROTATING ASSEMBLY: 383>>438 Stroker kit from 440 source.
3.750" stroke, 6.760" rod, bore TBD. Flat top pistons.
HEADS: Edelbrock Performer RPM 60929
210cc Intake Ports, 84cc Combustion Chambers, 2.14"/1.81" Valves, 1.55" Hydraulic Flat Tappet Valve Springs.
PRW 1.5 rocker arms.
CAM: Edelbrock Performer RPM 7194
Operating Range 1500-6500 RPM
Duration Advertised 300° Intake/308° Exhaust Duration @ .050'' 238° Intake/246° Exhaust
Lift @ Valve .480'' Intake/.495'' Exhaust. Lift @ Cam .320'' Intake/.330'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle 110°
Intake Centerline 105° Intake Timing @ .050" Open 14° BTDC, Close 44° ABDC
Exhaust Timing @ .050" Open 58° BBDC, Close 8° ATDC
INTAKE: Edelbrock Performer RPM 7186.
Dual plane. Square bore.
CARB: Edelbrock Thunder Series AVS 1813.
800CFM. Square bore.
MISC: 440 source main stud girdle. 440 source billet rear seal cap

[Challenger340]

 * Just so you know, the 7194 Cam doesn't go anywhere near 6,500 rpm. Peak power is more like 5,500 rpm on ootb Eddy's, not much point revíng any higher after that.

* You may experience Hood to Air Cleaner issues using the Performer rpm 7186.  A Holley Street Dominator #300-14 will clear.

* You do not need a main Stud girdle, ARP Main Studs by themselves are more than adequate.

* I am not a fan of the Edelbrock carbs, but then again, I can't rec anything better from experience either ? Hopefully someone else has real world advice.

* The Billet rear main seal housings are NOT the cure ! and will do NOTHING to stop Oil leaks.
The problem is people not observing when installing the neoprene seals.
They are NOT drop in ?
Remember here, these Blocks were produced with "Rope " seals originally ? 

To explain,
The rear seal "groove" where the seal sits in the Blocks is NOT concentric with the mainline on these blocks. When assembling, you need to observe the "lip" on the seal's contact with the Crank,(or lack thereof), then offset the seal to the offending side that is NOT contacting the crank from the parting line, and then gently apply some pressure over on the retainer to that side as you tighten the bolts to insure the "entire" seal contacts the Crank.
Very common problem present to some degree in 90 % of Blocks, and NO "Billet"... "Titanium"... or 'GOLD" for that matter Rear Seal Retainer will cure good old observation and know how. I dunno how many people I have seen purchase expensive seal retainers only to find it still LEAKS !

just say'in....
That is probably WHY you had problems with rear main leaks in your Block before ? The "Groove" is offset.

Next time, when the crank arrives, put the Crank in the Block on the bearings, with the top half of the seal in place. Then take a flashlight and look closely at the "lips" on the seal side to side.
On one side the lip will be compressed and sealing against the crank...... but on the other side, you will "see" what I am talking about ? Very little to NO contact(or sealing) with the crank.

Good Luck with the build.

Bob @ rmp.

[Windsor]

Thanks for the reply Challenger340.
As far as cam, is there one that would be recommended instead? Like I mentioned before, this car is a cruiser that wont see the higher RPMs much or for long periods.

I am not concerned about hood clearance. From the top of my MP intake, I have a foot easy before the hood and about 7" to the bottom of my horn trumpets.

Studs alone being adequate, would a girdle still be good insurance and strengthening aid.

I have had better luck with Edelbrock carbs than I have Holley/Holley type carbs. Before removing the engine, I had the 1405 installed. Before that, a mighty demon which gave me some issues. Not to mention, the 1813 is free with the top end kit. I just haven't used a thunder series, so I don't know how well they do.

Onto the rear seal... I actually learned about the off center issue when I did the seal the first time, did a google search and your write up is what I followed. 1/4" offset from flange, use cap to walk the seal into place, silicone down the sides. The reason I was thinking the billet one, is that it is a little wider than the OE and the side could be machined down a little to help get the seal seated right without leaving as much of a gap on the other side.

Are the PRW rocker arms any good? Or should I look into another brand?  Edelbrock says that the heads need the adjustable rockers, so the new rocker assemblies I put on the 906s will be staying with them.

I am just trying to cover all the bases and prevent as many possible problems as I can. Its 26 miles from where I am going to be building my house to the nearest "town", and I use that word loosely. Id prefer to not have issues when I get the place built and move out there.

[Challenger340]

Thanks for the reply Challenger340.
As far as cam, is there one that would be recommended instead? Like I mentioned before, this car is a cruiser that wont see the higher RPMs much or for long periods.
Nothing wrong with that Cam, it does work very well. I was just pointing out that peak power will occur around 5500-5600 rpm with un-ported eddy's.... so no point thinking it is a "6500" rpm Cam and trying to rev there ? That can be excessively hard on parts for no reason, just to go slower.

I am not concerned about hood clearance. From the top of my MP intake, I have a foot easy before the hood and about 7" to the bottom of my horn trumpets.

Studs alone being adequate, would a girdle still be good insurance and strengthening aid.
IMO Nope.
I've line-honed and installed dozens of girdles on 600+ hp applications, with very limited benefits seen when they come back for freshening after years of service.
Girdles do nothing to "capture" the lateral forces on the caps. I don't wish to get too bogged down here, but you are a sub 600 hp build, most probably even below 550 with stock eddy heads, and you can research on the net for yourself(maybe moparts), but for the money spent I would skip the girdle at your power level, and invest in getting it balanced properly once your kit arrives from 440 source, which reduces parasitic stresses.

I have had better luck with Edelbrock carbs than I have Holley/Holley type carbs. Before removing the engine, I had the 1405 installed. Before that, a mighty demon which gave me some issues. Not to mention, the 1813 is free with the top end kit. I just haven't used a thunder series, so I don't know how well they do.
Yeah, I ain't no carb expert for street stuff ? maybe pm Ron(Firefighter3931) and get his opinion, he has REAL world experience.

Onto the rear seal... I actually learned about the off center issue when I did the seal the first time, did a google search and your write up is what I followed. 1/4" offset from flange, use cap to walk the seal into place, silicone down the sides. The reason I was thinking the billet one, is that it is a little wider than the OE and the side could be machined down a little to help get the seal seated right without leaving as much of a gap on the other side.
The procedure I described has always worked for me. I have never had a leak, so I never tried any of the aftermarket billet seal retainers, just didn't see the point.

Are the PRW rocker arms any good? Or should I look into another brand?  Edelbrock says that the heads need the adjustable rockers, so the new rocker assemblies I put on the 906s will be staying with them.
I haven't used them, so I can offer no info.

I am just trying to cover all the bases and prevent as many possible problems as I can. Its 26 miles from where I am going to be building my house to the nearest "town", and I use that word loosely. Id prefer to not have issues when I get the place built and move out there.
And I applaud you for doing so. It is a very smart man who gathers as much info as possible so as to make decisions from an educated standpoint. Good for You !

[Windsor]

Thanks for the reply again.
I'll skip the girdle and go for just ARP main studs.
After some reading, I'm going to also skip the rockers from PRW and look into the Comp Cams rockers or another brand.

This is my first internally balanced motor. 440source boasts about their balancing. Is it not to be trusted?

[firefighter3931]

Thanks for the reply again.
I'll skip the girdle and go for just ARP main studs.
After some reading, I'm going to also skip the rockers from PRW and look into the Comp Cams rockers or another brand.

This is my first internally balanced motor. 440source boasts about their balancing. Is it not to be trusted?

At that power level a girdle is not required. If you order the 440 source kit order it unbalanced and have your local machinist do it. The 440 Source balance job leaves a lot to be desired....i'll leave it at that.  

Basicly, you're building a 440 in a smaller B series platform. When sizing the cam think 440. For the type of build and usage I would go with a Lunati VooDoo 268/276 cam and a set of the Johnson lifters. A new factory rocker arm with the mancini heavy duty chrome moly replacement pushrods is all you need. The stock style non adjustables are fine with the RPM heads. A roller rocker is not required and the money could be spent elsewhere. The stock RPM valvesprings are compatible with all these parts.  

You'll want a 1 7/8 in header (TTI) along with a free flowing exhaust. For the intake I'd go with a Performer RPM dual plane. I'd go with a Proform 750dp street series carb with electric choke. This combo will idle nice and make lots of manifold vacuum for easy tuning and a PB booster if required.

Here's a good build thread to read through complete with dyno numbers. I'd expect this one to make the same kind of power as Bill's. The only difference being the 6-pack vs the high rise dual plane & single 4bbl.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,52477.0.html


Ron

[Windsor]

Thanks Ron.
My question on the stock stamped rockers. I've been reading, in a few places, that stock are ~1.45 ratio. Would it be beneficial in the long run to have the 1.5 in either roller or non roller adjustable? I am also interested in the wear that I saw in the first set, and second set (purchased from another member). Both had wear on the bottom and back of the rockers. The first set also had wear on the tip with one having a hole.
The new set that I have on there now look fine, with just a bit of shine showing on the tip.
I will be selling the parts I'm taking off to make up some of the cost. So, like I said, I'd rather spend money up front than have to pull it out/apart again later to change something that would have been better done the first time.

[firefighter3931]

The call on whether to run an adjustable rocker arm is ultimately yours. In my opinion they're not required for the type of cam profile you will be running. I generally consider .530 valve lift as the cutoff for OEM rockers but I know of a few guys that run them with the Comp XEHL lobes which are aggressive and approach .550 lift. In the past I've used brand new OEM rockers when upgrading to a more aggressive lobe with increased spring pressures....no problems. The bigger issue is see is with the factory pushrods which are prone to deflection under increased loads. Those need to be upgraded when spring loads exceed 300 lbs. Mancini carries these in chrome moly with heavier walled tubing and they are great. 

I think the 1.45 ratio thing is passed around as gospel....some guy had a set that he measured years ago and they came out at that ratio and voila...all stock rockers are inferior. I've checked two sets over the years and both were 1.50 or better so take that for what it's worth. 

The only time I'll consider an adjustable rocker is for a solid flat tappet or solid roller. I like the simplicity of the factory setup and it has proven to be reliable (for me). I bet a lot of the failures are guys running old rockers that have 70K + miles of wear. 

There are lots of guys running that VooDoo hydraulic grind with stock valvetrains. 

If you had to have a set of adjustables my first choice would be a set of the old crane/isky ductile iron adjustables. They are bulletproof !


Ron

[Windsor]

Ok. Thanks for the info. Ill listen to the folks who have more experience and use the $ on other parts.
I don't have the stock pushrods anymore, don't remember if they are comp or crane. Replaced them when I put the new rockers and shafts in.

[firefighter3931]

These are the ones I like from Mancini. The RPM heads have ~330 lbs of spring pressure so an upgrade is in order. 

http://www.manciniracing.com/hydbchromemoly.html

If yours are of a similar construction and rated for increased loads you can just re-use them. I'd make sure though 

Run the good oil too....Brad Penn semi synthetic has all the good stuff and an excellent EP package. That's all I've been using for several years now. 



Ron

[Windsor]

Would you recommend 10w-30 or a different weight?  Also, is there a supplier that has the best prices? I think I've seen that brand on Summit.

Before the motor goes back in, I'll replace the TC. It is a stock replacement, whatever stall speed that would be. Any particular stall I should look into? I'll also look into another set of gears for the diff. Keep the 2.76 for long trips, and get ?.?? for daily driving.

[firefighter3931]

Would you recommend 10w-30 or a different weight?  Also, is there a supplier that has the best prices? I think I've seen that brand on Summit.

Before the motor goes back in, I'll replace the TC. It is a stock replacement, whatever stall speed that would be. Any particular stall I should look into? I'll also look into another set of gears for the diff. Keep the 2.76 for long trips, and get ?.?? for daily driving.

Oil weight depends on bearing clearance(s)....I run the 20/50 BP but my main & rod clearances are .0025 and the oil pressure is 50psi at hot idle. 

The stock converter for a 383 is an 11in and should stall at approx. 2500 or so behind that engine which would be about right if you choose to run that VooDoo cam. A buddy has a similar build to yours and installed a Hughes 11in street converter and is very pleased with the results. Very efficient and lights the tires up at will. 

Tire diameter will determine the optimum gear ratio. I'd say that if you plan to run a 28in tall skin a set of 3.55's would be a good choice. 



Ron

[Windsor]

I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

[Windsor]

Parts list is getting shorter, parts pile is getting bigger. Heads, intake, carb, cam/lifters, gaskets. More will be ordered on Monday. Trying to spread it out a little so I don't drain my house/property funds too fast. Not that I am going to be building in the rain/snow and low temps anyways.
I went ahead and ordered the Edelbrock top end kit, plus the Lunati cam. I am going to sell the edelbrock cam/lifters/timing chain for a bit less than what summit offeres it for to even out for the Lunati cam and a comp timing chain.
Also, got my 906 heads and MP single plane sold to put money back into the fray.

My 8.75 is fitted with the 741 chunk with 2.76 gears. Will a 741, with 3.55, be strong enough? Also, is there a difference in the snout length? I don't have the option of going to the junk yard to get another driveline to just toss in, and I'd prefer not to have to get this one cut down again or another built. Keeping in mind that I currently, and will continue to run passenger tires.

[firefighter3931]

Good progress....sounds like it's coming together nicely ! 

As long as you run a street tire with an auto trans you won't break a 741. The problems start with sticky tires....once they dead hook parts start to break. There's no chance this thing will ever dead hook on a street tire. You'll be frying the tires at half throttle. 

Dimensionally all of the 8.75 centersections are identical and therefore interchangeable. The yoke will be in the same spot no matter what center (741/742/489) you run. 

The 741 gets a bad rap due to the reduced pinion diameter but it's still plenty strong. I've never seen a 741 broke at the pinion. Usually it's the ring gear that breaks or a cap gets blown off. The pinion diameter at it's smallest location is the same size as a Dana 60's & we all know how strong those are. Back in the early Max Wedge days the 741 was the centersection that was used and they took a lot of abuse. 



Ron

[BSB67]

Parts list is getting shorter, parts pile is getting bigger. Heads, intake, carb, cam/lifters, gaskets. More will be ordered on Monday. Trying to spread it out a little so I don't drain my house/property funds too fast. Not that I am going to be building in the rain/snow and low temps anyways.
I went ahead and ordered the Edelbrock top end kit, plus the Lunati cam. I am going to sell the edelbrock cam/lifters/timing chain for a bit less than what summit offeres it for to even out for the Lunati cam and a comp timing chain.
Also, got my 906 heads and MP single plane sold to put money back into the fray.

My 8.75 is fitted with the 741 chunk with 2.76 gears. Will a 741, with 3.55, be strong enough? Also, is there a difference in the snout length? I don't have the option of going to the junk yard to get another driveline to just toss in, and I'd prefer not to have to get this one cut down again or another built. Keeping in mind that I currently, and will continue to run passenger tires.

I think I can sense your excitement.  Hell, I'm excited for you.  Enjoy the journey.

[Windsor]

I'd be more excited if I was able to work. That way I could build the motor and my house. But, one at a time I guess.

Thanks for the info Ron.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Had a 741/spool/ 3.91's in my belvedere. Only thing it broke was axles on stickies. 741 will be fine in your case. Cant wait to see pictures and videos.

[Windsor]

Are these the crane rockers you referred to?
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/crn-64770-16

[firefighter3931]

Are these the crane rockers you referred to?
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/crn-64770-16

Yes, Those are the one's I'd use if the valvetrain need to be adjustable. Those used to sell for ~ $200 not all that long ago 

You can often find them used on E-bay or in the classifieds for less than half of that "new" pricing. 



Ron

[Windsor]

I was thinking about it, and decided that I would go ahead and get adjustable arms. That way in the future, if I decide to get a bigger cam, I won't have to spend the money again.
Yeah, used set on ebay for $300. For the price difference, I'd rather have new. Just something hitting my mind about doing all this to the engine and using used parts. Even if I have to sell one of my Mosins to help with $ for it.
Through Summit, I can get about $40 off.

[firefighter3931]

I can't argue with that logic 

Those Crane ductiles will last forever and you're good to go if you decide to upgrade the cam   

Looking forward to the build 


Ron

[c00nhunterjoe]

Shame you live in oregon, depending on the mosin, i would consider that trade.

[Windsor]

It's a flame thrower.
my other one is a little longer and has an A2 style birdcage. Offered it to my cousin for the price of the add-ons.

[Windsor]

Ron, would you suggest a specific rocker shaft? Or will a stock replacement be good?

[firefighter3931]

I like the hardened chrome rocker shafts from Mancini 

http://www.manciniracing.com/manbrbharchr.html


Ron

[c00nhunterjoe]

Id trade. Too bad you are so.ething like 1000 miles away. Lol

[Windsor]

Ok. Ordered more parts today. Ordered the rockers, timing chain, and some fasteners. Would have ordered more, but I need to go get new tires for my truck tomorrow. Ill order the majority of remaining stuff needed in march and rotating assembly after rough bore is completed (funds are already set aside for that).

I'm going to skip balancing as mentioned and have it balanced by the builder. Do y'all think I'd get better quality from Mancini, or 440 source?
Ill put up parts pictures tomorrow if I get a chance.
Ill be going out to my property next week, gotta figure out where to build my driveway that will make it so I won't have to drive my car through the ditch like I do my truck.

[Windsor]

Well, here's an update. Motor is build and has been broken in and run on the dyno. I'll post all numbers when I get the print out when I pick the motor up. I don't remember the rpms (been a couple weeks), but it ran 479hp (or maybe it was 497) and 502tq if I remember right.
Some of the issues, the crane rockers came with 9 right and 7 left, so had to get another left sent out.  Can't get rid of the rear main leak. Tried the seal that came with the billet retainer, also tried two of the Fel-Pro performance seals. He said he tried shimming the seal but it made it worse.
I decided I will just have a leaking motor instead of keep throwing money at a problem that can't be guaranteed to get fixed. 10 drops over 15 min of run time according to the builder. But hey, it will always have fresh oil. I am going to install a oil level sensor in the new pan when I extend it to gain capacity.  I should be picking it up next week then it will be going on a stand for the 3-12 months that it will take for my arm to recover from surgery.
I picked up a Dakota that I will use the frame of under my car. So, engine won't be going back into the car until the frame swap is done. Then I will modify the pan to the new frame and other components.
As of pretty much January, everything has been put on hold or slowed down while dealing with the VA for my back and arm. I'll be going slow on most everything for a while.

[ACUDANUT]

Be careful. The V.A. might just cut your arm off. 
Man I hate going to the V.A.  I get depressed just thinking about going back again. 
Good Luck.

[Windsor]

I dunno. It might be an improvement.

[Dreamcar]

Well, here's an update. Motor is build and has been broken in and run on the dyno. I'll post all numbers when I get the print out when I pick the motor up. I don't remember the rpms (been a couple weeks), but it ran 479hp (or maybe it was 497) and 502tq if I remember right.
Some of the issues, the crane rockers came with 9 right and 7 left, so had to get another left sent out.  Can't get rid of the rear main leak. Tried the seal that came with the billet retainer, also tried two of the Fel-Pro performance seals. He said he tried shimming the seal but it made it worse.
I decided I will just have a leaking motor instead of keep throwing money at a problem that can't be guaranteed to get fixed. 10 drops over 15 min of run time according to the builder. But hey, it will always have fresh oil. I am going to install a oil level sensor in the new pan when I extend it to gain capacity.  I should be picking it up next week then it will be going on a stand for the 3-12 months that it will take for my arm to recover from surgery.
I picked up a Dakota that I will use the frame of under my car. So, engine won't be going back into the car until the frame swap is done. Then I will modify the pan to the new frame and other components.
As of pretty much January, everything has been put on hold or slowed down while dealing with the VA for my back and arm. I'll be going slow on most everything for a while.

I'm another one whose anxious to see the final numbers since perhaps next year my numbers matching 383 will be rebuilt. What bore size and final compression ratio did you end up with? By any chance, had you also looked at the 450 stroker kit from Musclemotors?

[Windsor]

When I get the motor back, I'll do specs and a parts list. Not sure on the actual compression yet. He did work on the deck (a little uneven before) and heads a little bit (no port work just getting everything fitted for use with valley pan).
The block cleaned up at .025", and finish bore was .030". I did look at the 450 kit. I don't remember why I went with the 383<438 (432) over the 450 kit.

[Windsor]

Talked with the guy who built the motor. He tried a different rear seal retainer (first and second are both the billet type) and ran the motor again. Said it ran for 20 minutes without a drop leaked out. So, lots of headache, 13 hours of labor, 4 new seals, a second brand new seal retainer, and two 1 piece windage trays give me no more leak.

[Dreamcar]

Talked with the guy who built the motor. He tried a different rear seal retainer (first and second are both the billet type) and ran the motor again. Said it ran for 20 minutes without a drop leaked out. So, lots of headache, 13 hours of labor, 4 new seals, a second brand new seal retainer, and two 1 piece windage trays give me no more leak.

At least now you won't have that issue in the back of your mind. 

[Windsor]

Yep. Going up to get the motor on Thursday. Already modified a movers dolly to set the engine cradle on. Now I need to figure out how to mount it in the Dakota frame.

[Windsor]

Got the motor. I'm trying to get me scanner to work so I can show all the #s without typing them.
Compression is 9.5.
Sweep 9. Horsepower- 477 @5200rpm. Torque- 506 @4300rpm.
Sweep 10. Horsepower- 471 @5200rpm. Torque- 509 @4200rpm.

When I get my scanner working and get rid of my headache, I'll post more.

[Dreamcar]

Got the motor. I'm trying to get me scanner to work so I can show all the #s without typing them.
Compression is 9.5.
Sweep 9. Horsepower- 477 @5200rpm. Torque- 506 @4300rpm.
Sweep 10. Horsepower- 471 @5200rpm. Torque- 509 @4200rpm.

When I get my scanner working and get rid of my headache, I'll post more.

Nice! As many details about parts that you can provide would be appreciated.

[Windsor]

Not a problem. 6 hours (plus 1 hour of sitting after a semi and f150 played bumper trucks at highway speed) of driving gave me a killer headache.

[firefighter3931]

Got the motor. I'm trying to get me scanner to work so I can show all the #s without typing them.
Compression is 9.5.
Sweep 9. Horsepower- 477 @5200rpm. Torque- 506 @4300rpm.
Sweep 10. Horsepower- 471 @5200rpm. Torque- 509 @4200rpm.

When I get my scanner working and get rid of my headache, I'll post more.

Nice power numbers for a mild street build 

I bet that torque curve is pretty flat......should be a great build for your application ! 

Looking forward to the build details and dyno sheets. Once that is posted up we can archive this one in the Proven Engine Builds forum 


Ron

[Windsor]

Thanks Ron. I just posted it up there with the pictures.

Nice! As many details about parts that you can provide would be appreciated.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,125531.0.html

[Dreamcar]

Thanks for that link Windsor 

I'm going to pose this question here since my car will also be a 383.

Assuming power numbers like Windsor is getting, how would a Charger's acceleration feel like with 3.23 gears?  See, I own a Charger, but I've never driven one...I bought mine undriveable and I'm restoring it. I'm trying to decide down the road if I want a gear vendors OD or not. If I run a 27 inch tall tire, 70mph should be around 2900 rpm.

Will the car feel gutless off the line with similar power numbers Windsor is getting with only 3.23 gears and a 727 trans? Is 2900 RPM too high for 5-6 hour road trips on the highway (fuel mileage is not a concern). My truck in high gear runs 2500 RPM, but it's modern, not a 69.

[Windsor]

I'd be interested in that info also. I currently have 2.76 in my rear end. But since I will be back halfing a different frame with 4 link, I'm going to go to a lower gear. I'm thinking 3.55.

[BSB67]

I'd be interested in that info also. I currently have 2.76 in my rear end. But since I will be back halfing a different frame with 4 link, I'm going to go to a lower gear. I'm thinking 3.55.

It will depend on the specifics of the build.

[Windsor]

https://www.tacomaworld.com/attachments/image-jpg.1152837/
Once installed in the frame, I'll be modifying the oil pan for more capacity. If someone could repost the picture for me. It still won't let me load from my iPod.

[Troy]

Pic