Gearheads article on advertised vs. actual hp in the 60s and 70s

[bull]

http://gearheads.org/the-true-hp-of-the-10-most-powerful-classic-era-muscle-cars/

A top 10 list of actual horespower in some of our cars. Why he thinks they may have done it and test results. It's not a comprehensive story but still informative I thought.

[tan top]

not trying to look, well sound stupid    who is this Huntingtons anaiysis ? not  sure I agree with a lot of , the  conculsions  in that link , think a bit optimistic ......

I can see  the L88/ ZL1  , Hemi  , olds w30 & buick stage 1 455 &  maybe the 440 six pack   , if given a knife edge tune ,  jetting & distributor work  , could be slightly more than the factory advertised HP rating  , but the others ...   IMO   may be with headers , &  a slightly hotter  cam  , head work ,  but not stock .....

[bull]

That's the main problem, few specifics. It's kind of a 7-11 version.

[Mike DC]

                            
Meh.  What is a true figure?

Is it reading between the lines of the factories' phony ratings, in order to get the "true" figures which only happen with no accessory or exhaust or intake drag?  



I like seeing at-the-wheels HP & torque figures +  measured curb weights (not shipping weight estimates).   That's more telling than anything else, including track data on the cars in action. 
                   

[tan top]

 

That's the main problem, few specifics. It's kind of a 7-11 version.

                           
Meh.  What is a true figure?

Is it reading between the lines of the factories' phony ratings, in order to get the "true" figures which only happen with no accessory or exhaust or intake drag?  



I like seeing at-the-wheels HP & torque figures +  measured curb weights (not shipping weight estimates).   That's more telling than anything else, including track data on the cars in action.  
                   

true !       also they never even mentioned the chevelle Ls6  ,  that should of been on that list  , would go as far to say a well tuned Ls6 motor would have put out a little more power than the stock rating , maybe 

[Ghoste]

Maybe, although they did rate it at 450. 

[bull]

The "true" hp ratings were less interesting to me than the reason for fudging them. I knew about the insurance factor but I have never heard anyone mention the NHRA drag racing classification angle.

[tan top]

The "true" hp ratings were less interesting to me than the reason for fudging them. I knew about the insurance factor but I have never heard anyone mention the NHRA drag racing classification angle.

I read something about this , long time ago about the NHRA there  hp ratings   compared to the factory advertised ratings & the cars weight  ,  don't quote me on this , just  going by memory but ! Chrysler rated the cross ram hemi in a hurst dart & barracuda , the same as the  in line duel quad intake on all the J & R code hemi cars  , hence the darts & barracudas were put in a lower horsepower  to weight class    also read something about the 340s in the 68 /69 darts barracudas  , the four speed cars got a hotter cam than the autos , yet the hp rating was the same  ,  even think NHRA re factored this motor too ,  like I say it was something I read years ago , may be in a mopar mag or an old road test or hotrod / motor trend mag from back in the day etc  no idea how true all this was or even if i'm remembering all the details correct ,  might have been some typical mag miss information .   got know idea where to look for the info , have since given almost all mags away now .
I await to be corrected on any of this  ,  



 getting back to the factory ratings in the link Bull posted  , it kind of makes me wonder if there was some underrating going on , look at the 429 cj motor 335hp  , boss 429  , 375    olds & buick 455 motors    ..........

[ws23rt]

I recall those days well. Their was much discussion back then about this and I'm sure it will never end.

What my friends and I talked about then was that advertised HP at the time was a convoluted mix of motivations from the car companies.
Times were a changin then.   The sellers knew what we wanted. They also knew about regulations, insurance, and liability that moved them to alter data to fit all needs.
Some folks put a scare in them and the car companies dealt with it.----I'm glad those influences didn't get passed on to the next generation of car makers. If it did I might be driving a 250hp hellcat

[Mytur Binsdirti]

"The Elephant Motor that Chrysler created for NASCAR racing that it was forced to sell to the public to remain eligible for competition became a legend on street and the strip. The Hemi engines powered Top Fuel and Funny Car dragsters, and even today, where there are ZERO Chrysler parts in these top-level NHRA motor, the architecture remains that of the 426 Hemi. The Hemi breathed extremely well, so more horsepower was easily gained with increasing engine speed. The spec sheet from Chrysler said 425 hp @ 5000 rpm but in reality the power keeps producing reliable power to 6000 rpm where the output is a whopping 470 horsepower."



By chance, does the writer also fudge figures for the global warming industry?  Take out a new 392 SRT Challenger or Charger for a test drive & then drive a bone stock street hemi in perfect tune (if you can find one) and you'll clearly see which one is faster.

[1974dodgecharger]

what happens if you fuel injected a Gen 2 Hemi like the Gen 3 hemis would their be a power difference?


What am I talking about my little 383 puts down close to the 392s, but they have air, power, etc....

damn modern mopar.....

[Mike DC]

By chance, does the writer also fudge figures for the global warming industry?  Take out a new 392 SRT Challenger or Charger for a test drive & then drive a bone stock street hemi in perfect tune (if you can find one) and you'll clearly see which one is faster.

Those were gross-HP numbers.  470 is totally believable for a stock 426 Hemi.  In fact 6000 rpm still might not be quite the top of the curve yet.  

what happens if you fuel injected a Gen 2 Hemi like the Gen 3 hemis would their be a power difference?

EFI doesn't raise ceiling of the motor's performance range, it raises the floor up closer to the ceiling.  It keeps the engine nearer to an ideal state of tune in varying conditions.  No gain for dyno testing, big gain for real-world owners who don't fiddle with their carbs.  

[1974dodgecharger]

By chance, does the writer also fudge figures for the global warming industry?  Take out a new 392 SRT Challenger or Charger for a test drive & then drive a bone stock street hemi in perfect tune (if you can find one) and you'll clearly see which one is faster.

Those were gross-HP numbers.  470 is totally believable for a stock 426 Hemi.  In fact 6000 rpm still might not be quite the top of the curve yet.  

what happens if you fuel injected a Gen 2 Hemi like the Gen 3 hemis would their be a power difference?

EFI doesn't raise ceiling of the motor's performance range, it raises the floor up closer to the ceiling.  It keeps the engine nearer to an ideal state of tune in varying conditions.  No gain for dyno testing, big gain for real-world owners who don't fiddle with their carbs.  

ahhh man I always thought FI increase power also over a tuner on carb guy.....

[Ghoste]

The writer has been a number of years passed away now.  He was a pretty knowledgeable automotive writer in his life and had a book out at one time in which he tried to put all the muscle engines into a playing field that leveled out the specs.

[el dub]

The writer is correct. Also the part about the NHRA was correct but don't forget Nascar. Same reason. The reason for the muscle cars were there was major racing going on everywhere. Good till about 1970 and the beginning of the gas crunch. Don't forget gas was only 25 to 31 cents a gallon. Drag racing was huge in those days. Just look at the number of closed drag strips. Course I lived in Calif which was the heart of hot rodding and drag racing

[Mike DC]

  

The writer is correct. Also the part about the NHRA was correct but don't forget Nascar. Same reason. The reason for the muscle cars were there was major racing going on everywhere. Good till about 1970 and the beginning of the gas crunch. Don't forget gas was only 25 to 31 cents a gallon. Drag racing was huge in those days. Just look at the number of closed drag strips. Course I lived in Calif which was the heart of hot rodding and drag racing

30 cents in 1970 inflates to something like $1.80 today.  

That's going by the suspiciously-low govt inflation figures.  Some people would argue that $2.00+ is more accurate.