Ignition issue START vs. RUN

[crj1968]

I just got my car back together. It was running a mopar ECU ignition. I had a hard time getting it to fire.
So I wired up a MSD 6AL I had on hand.

Now it fires up nicely but only when I remote start with key in RUN position. No spark in START position. (this likely was why I had hard starts with the mopar ECU )

Is this purely an ignition switch issue?  Is there only a single 12V going into the switch and the START and Run positions both use it?    THX!

[skip68]

Bad Ballast resistor.     you don't need it with electronic ignition. 

[Troy]

The Mopar ignition switch has 2 wires that are hot at different times but both are necessary to start and run the engine. You need to tie the two together for an aftermarket ignition box so you have power whenever the key is in any position besides off.

Bad Ballast resistor.     you don't need it with electronic ignition. 

Wouldn't that be backwards? The ballast is "hot" in run and bypassed during start.

Troy

[skip68]

Yes.   But I'm thinking if he's still running a resistor he might have a bad one or he's using the wrong wire (run) to the electronic ignition.  Basically it could be backwards and bad. I'm just throwing it out because it's happened.  

[crj1968]

Well I tied all the wires together at the resistor (bypassed) for the MSD. But still only have spark in run position.
So at that point; my question is it can ONLY be the ign switch?  yes?   Sanity check.


Thanks!

no 440 in your Camaro eh Skip?   

[skip68]

It can be.  Check the voltage.   Could also be neutral safety switch or bulkhead connection.   Put a tester on the ignition wires you bypassed from resistor.  Put the tester where you can see it through the windshield and check voltage in run and start positions. 

[crj1968]

Yeah- I was thinking if it was the ign switch then my starter would engage either right?

So when you turn to start you get your starter engaged through the solenoid and get 12V to your coil via bypass side of ballast....

OK thanks- I 'll do some more digging.

hopefully my TTI exhaust system will show up today.      

[skip68]

Put the car in neutral and see if it starts.  Also try wiggling the shifter while in the start position.   

[crj1968]

Put the car in neutral and see if it starts.  Also try wiggling the shifter while in the start position.   

But doesn't the neutral switch cut out everything? As in the starter wont even engage....

[skip68]

Yes the starter won't engage if the switch is working and car in gear.  I think you're on the right track with ignition switch.  The engine turns over just fine with the key correct?   

[crj1968]

Yeah the engine turns over no problem- just with the mopar ECU it would start just as I released the key and went to run position.

So I thought; enough ballast BS and went with the MSD.   Thanks for your input- I'll either figure it out or install a button. 

Just got the car put back together and the wiring is just a gigantic mess...I'd like to replace it all

[polywideblock]

new ignition switch      had same problem car would crank /start and cut out when you let it go back to run position 

[nascarxx29]

Are you still using the mopar electronic distributor it could be a pickup going bad .Also air gap needs to be a 00.8.  Similar symptons.http://forums.hotrod.com/mopar-muscle-magazine/70/8229401/dodge-dart/73-dart-doesnt-start/

[skip68]

That's the reason for checking voltage at the connection where the ballast resistor was.  If it's good then go forward.  If it's not then the only thing it can be is bad switch or bad connection at the bulkhead.   He says it starts up fine while in the run position by remote starting so that makes me think it's switch or bulkhead.    Unless I'm missing something.  

[crj1968]

yeah- runs/starts fine when in run position- so I've no reason to blame the distributor- i'll trace it back.  I was just wondering if there were two separate 12V inputs to the ign switch.

[b5blue]

  The big wire under the column feeds everything for ignition on. Start/run/assy. to fuse block. The tube type connectors use for column keyed Mopars I consider under rated (weak) for large loads. You can buy an ignition switch for about 35.00 and just plug it into the harness under the dash.
  That will let you continue testing/checking things and let you know if the switch you have in the column is bad. (Without tearing down the entire column.)
(I have a 70 also.)

[Nacho-RT74]

ok... lets beging for the beginning huh?

You need to check for FULL 12 VOLTS power with key in RUN at Blue wire and key in START ot brown wire. Unplugg ballast for better reading.

If you don't have power at blue wire, then beging to trace that line up to ign switch

NOTE, BRAKE WARNING LIGHT must come on ( with emergency brake set ) with key in RUN... If this light comes on in RUN but still not power at ballast plug, problem will be mostly sure at bulkhead, not ign switch.

Another clue for this is: if while you are cranking the brake light turns off, problem is between ballast ( or ballast itself ) and bulkhead, because ign switch cuts the power to blue COMING FROM IT. Ballast retrofeeds this light when cranking from brwon circuit ( thats why the lights dims out, because power returns from ballast )

If brake light doesn't come on with key in RUN, then you can get a damaged switch or failling plug under the column ( not uncommon )

[Nacho-RT74]

just read more detailled on original post you are able to fire up the engine with remote starting while key in RUN but not while cranking from inside. This makes the Blue RUN circuit good, and ballast too ( sorry, on my earlier reply, I focused on what ppl replied, which was not completelly correct )

problem in that case is BROWN circuit coming from ing switch. This wire runs straight from ign switch up to ballast. Just two places with bad conections to check: Plug down the column and bulkhead. No more, aside a bad ign switch

Still, if you are watching the brake light on cluster while cranking and this turns off, then you are confirming this.

[crj1968]

Thanks Nacho-  I will check out the brown wire connection.

Thanks again for your response a while back via PM about my brake lights as well. 

[skip68]

Well, what was the outcome?   

[crj1968]

no 12V at brown wire coming out of bulhead so must be the switch. I haven't had a chance to get under there yet....been busy installing my TTI exhaust.   

[Nacho-RT74]

I guess you checked while trying to crank?. Brown wire doesn't have power from ign in RUN ( just get dimmed power when connected to ballast, but not straight from ign switch )

if so, It can be, as explained, wire arriving to bulkhead itself ( on back ), plug/terminals down the column ( not uncommon ), or ign switch itself, of course.

sometimes can be something so simple that the terminal popped out from the cavity on back of  bulkhead

[crj1968]

yep checked it while in crank position- thanks again.  Seems like 20 years ago it was much easier to get on the floor and under the dash.  These cars have gotten smaller or something....

[Nacho-RT74]

we are less flexible and more lazy

[XH29N0G]

So I take it you are still working at it.  I bought a spare ignition switch and swapped it in and it solved my problem.  Mine was intermittent and it turned out to be the plug rather than the switch.  Having a spare switch wasn't a problem.