Torsion Bars?

[Charger4404spd]

Collecting parts to do a front suspension rebuild and need recommendations on torsions bars. Im thinking a bigger bar would be better with the added weight of the blower.

[303 Mopar]

Go at least 1.10.  They are available at both Hotchkis and Firmfeel.

[Mike DC]

 
1.10 seems too stiff for a street car IMO.  A blower adds some weight but it's not enormous. 

[myk]

Hotchkis...

[green69rt]

Something north of 1.0....

[Ghoste]

The blower isn't pushing it up past Hemi weight so unless you plan to autocross it you may well find that 1.0 down to stock are fine.

[green69rt]

I've read a lot of posts here that discuss TBs and opinions are all over the place. One thing others talk about is that you can't pick your suspension, one piece at a time, it has to work together.  So if your TB is .9, .95.......1.10 you need to make sure the shocks, steering and body stiffness are matched for the job.  Just use the search function for "torsion" or "shocks" and you'll probably get more info than you can digest.

[Charger4404spd]

Your right man, I done a search last night and found tons of stuff....more confused than ever
Think I will just stay in the middle and go for a set of 1.00's.

[c00nhunterjoe]

What are you doing with the car now that is has a big blower sticking through the hood? How much hp did it put down? Is this a drag car?

[Charger4404spd]

Approx 800 hp, no not a drag car. Just street driving.

[Mike DC]

            
 
Whatever you do, remember that T-bar stiffness goes up radically as the diameter grows.  

The OEM rates were admittedly on the soft side.  But they only ran a 0.04" total spread between slant-6s and cast iron 426 Hemis.  Ask the hobby today about what's a good rate and you can get opinions 0.30" apart depending on the motor & usage.  I'm not saying the factory was always right but it's something to consider.  (If there is one thing backyard hobbyists are good at, it's taking things to crazy extremes.)



One more thing - Huge T-bars can band-aid an undersized front swaybar.  It makes the car corner flatter but it's not really the right way to do things.  Consider that when weighing people's opinions about their combos.  A guy who loves his combo of a stock front swaybar + HUGE T-bars, would probably love it even more if the added stiffness had been spread out more equally between those two places. 

[Charger4404spd]

So you think the .960 bars would better?

[HPP]

New cars are sprung 25-30% higher than our vintage cars.  Drivers have come to expect better performance and improved road feel from their suspensions.

The biggest stock t-bars available back in the day were .92 Hemi bars. These produce 138# of rate. If you want to step up in the modern realm, you would need to be up around 180# worth of rate, which is 30% higher than the best factory bar from the day. This is going to be a bit over 1" in diameter. Firm Feel's 1. 0 " is 175# rate, so a bit short, and 1.06 is 225#, so a bit over the 180# rate.

I had a set of .96 bars in a 3200# Satellite with a small block. I was a fairly nice ride with reasonable cornering ability. They were matched  with a 1.125" sway bar. If I had a big block, I probably would have stepped up to 1.0 bars for the extra weight support. I didn't see any mention of what block your bolting that blower to but I would start with 1.0" diameter bars.

Also, spend as much budget as possible on good shocks. Like a camshaft determines the operating parameters of an engine, so too do shocks determine how well te esuspension parts all work together. Cheaping out here is like putting a $49 reground cam into your $10k engine rebuild.

[Mike DC]

New cars are sprung 25-30% higher than our vintage cars.  Drivers have come to expect better performance and improved road feel from their suspensions.

The biggest stock t-bars available back in the day were .92 Hemi bars. These produce 138# of rate. If you want to step up in the modern realm, you would need to be up around 180# worth of rate, which is 30% higher than the best factory bar from the day. This is going to be a bit over 1" in diameter. Firm Feel's 1. 0 " is 175# rate, so a bit short, and 1.06 is 225#, so a bit over the 180# rate.

I had a set of .96 bars in a 3200# Satellite with a small block. I was a fairly nice ride with reasonable cornering ability. They were matched  with a 1.125" sway bar. If I had a big block, I probably would have stepped up to 1.0 bars for the extra weight support. I didn't see any mention of what block your bolting that blower to but I would start with 1.0" diameter bars.

Also, spend as much budget as possible on good shocks. Like a camshaft determines the operating parameters of an engine, so too do shocks determine how well te esuspension parts all work together. Cheaping out here is like putting a $49 reground cam into your $10k engine rebuild.

This.  


1960s bias-ply tires rode noticeably harder than modern radials.  That helps explain the difference in spring rates.  More "give" in the tires means less "give" is needed from the springs (and the shocks, and the seats, and the bushings . . . )  


As for driver expectation, I question whether drivers actually want stiffer-riding cars or whether the automotive press does.  People love SUVs/trucks that ride spongy as hell. 

 

[tan top]

 what the other guys say  

have MP 1 inch bars on mine , plus  a number of other suspension mods  ,   no problems  , if was to fit another set of bars  , would prolly go slightly larger still ,  

[Charger4404spd]

Its a 440 block. Ok so 1.0" bars and maybe a set of bilstein shocks? And a better sway bar?

[myk]

With the way your car is set up, is handling a genuine concern? 

[Charger4404spd]

Not a major concern , just want a nice handling machine.
No road courses in my future

[c00nhunterjoe]

Since it has thd potential for a street/strip car im going to say put the .960 bars in it, good adjustable shocks, lower control arm braces, larger ft sway bar, frame connectors, and adjustable rear shocks.

[Charger4404spd]

Will not see any strip time, but frame connectors are in the near future.

[c00nhunterjoe]

No strip time, then the 1.0 firm feel bars instead. Frame connectors are a must. If you stiffen the front end, the car will litteraly buckle in the middle when you add torque. I can post pictures of my broken windshield and ripped open door jamb....

[green69rt]

No strip time, then the 1.0 firm feel bars instead. Frame connectors are a must. If you stiffen the front end, the car will litteraly buckle in the middle when you add torque. I can post pictures of my broken windshield and ripped open door jamb....

Just about where I'm heading.  Frame connectors and torque boxes installed.  K-frame welded up and reinforced.  I'd planned on the 1" FF TBs.  Got the lower CAs reinforced.  Add a nice front sway bar and shocks.  Kept the  stock UCAs but plan on the offset bushings.   Steering box upgrade to a FF stage 2.   That will just about finish off the front end, we'll see if anyone recommends something else

Got the rebuilt RT springs in back and a good pair of shocks.  Maybe a small rear sway bar if I get ambitious.  So far using all rubber bushings, those are relatively easy to change if needed.

Edit:  forgot to mention a sector control kit from FF.  See their web site.  If you can't weld up the K-frame, the kit might help reduce steering box flex.  I haven't seen anyone on here mention it yet so have no recommendation, others might know.  

[Mike DC]

  
That's a very good list of stiffening mods overall.  
(Kudos on doing the torque boxing.  Everyone wants to do subframe connectors first but torque boxing is actually the first step the factory took to stiffen things.)


The only obvious thing you might add would be some type of lower radiator support bracing.  The front ends of the front sub-rails are otherwise hanging out in space unsupported.  Old NASCAR racers would let the K-frame do that stiffening job but they were welding the K's into place.  


It also wouldn't hurt to add shock tower bracing to the firwall/jambs area.  But that mod may be overrated for a stock-type torsion bar front end.  That area has gotten a lot of its floppy reputation because of guys doing coilover conversions and placing all the spring weight there.  

[Charger4404spd]

Speaking of steering.... While Im doing a rebuild Im going to replace the leaky steering box. Since my 2" primary headers are basically against the box, I am considering this.

http://www.bergmanautocraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=5-0033

Anyone running one of these boxes?

[Charger4404spd]

Got some parts in. Got these new strut rods from Mancini, they are beefy.




Got the k frame cleaned and I welded the seams. Waiting on my painter to finish it.
Waiting on the stiffening plates for the lower control arms.