Seeking info on Petty Blue Bird, Washington Illinois, John Bearce, Jim Baker

[Arnie Cunningham]

Merry Xmas All,
I received this email and am forwarding the request.  Does anyone know this car?  Petty Blue certainly helps narrow down the choices.

Hello, my name is Rick Heller I'm trying to see if my father in laws old superbird is still around. He bought it new in 70 or 71 from John Bearce in Washington Illinois, it was a petty blue white bucket seat interior 440 4bbl not sure about the trans. My father in laws name was Jim Baker, he is deceased now so getting info is kind of hard. I don't have a vin# or this would be easy haha. I know this is a long shot but figured I would try. I thought maybe one of the other owners might have some paper work that would show where their car was bought. I think he traded it back in at the same dealership he bought it from. I attached a couple of photos of his car from 1971, the one photo is my wife {Jims daughter} her sister and their mother. Any help would be GREAT!!    Thanks, Rick   My email is heller426@yahoo.com

Thanks,
Brennan

[Arnie Cunningham]

From what I can see in the photos it looks like a 15" wheel car, radio, no passenger mirror, white bucket interior and maybe the shadow of a column shift lever.

[Hemi Runner]

I don't know the car, but that shed/barn sure looks familiar. What street was that on?

[Arnie Cunningham]

I will ask him to join the group and provide as much info as he can.  It also looks to have clear side windows.

[thehemikid]

I know the pic is a bit old and there's a lot of glare from the sun in it,...but appears to me there are no nose decals.

[Arnie Cunningham]

I received this additional information:

Hello Brennan, The pictures were taken in Secor Illinois that is where they were living, not sure of the address but I can get it if anyone needs it. I registered last night on dodgecharger.com, still waiting for them to accept me. Rick

And yes the glare does make it look like the nose decals are missing - and kind of like the decals are still on the headlight buckets.  Maybe it was like so many of these and had some early life nose dings and repainting.

[nascarxx29]

Maybe try both wingcar club with older registrys .And check the post on 999 superbirds see how many have white interiors

[Arnie Cunningham]

Statistically, given the limited information we have, this should be one of about 10 or 12 cars.  440 4 barrel with white bucket interior.

[nascarxx29]

Same dealer who sold superbird    http://www.peoriamagazines.com/ibi/2014/jul/john-bearce

[heller426]

Hello all, I'm the guy looking for the petty blue bird. Nascarxx29 that is a good article on John Bearce I have never seen that. The other guy he mentions in the article Gary Uftring is the salesman that sold the superbird to my father in law. Arnie Cunningham, I agree with you to about the shadow of a column shift lever that's what I thought to. Talking to my mother in law about the car as she used to drive it, she swears she remembers having to shift it (4 speed), but I would think you would be able to see a shifter handle sticking up there as tall as they where. I don't know about her sometime Haha. Thanks for everybody's help on this. Rick

[tan top]

Hello all, I'm the guy looking for the petty blue bird. Nascarxx29 that is a good article on John Bearce I have never seen that. The other guy he mentions in the article Gary Uftring is the salesman that sold the superbird to my father in law. Arnie Cunningham, I agree with you to about the shadow of a column shift lever that's what I thought to. Talking to my mother in law about the car as she used to drive it, she swears she remembers having to shift it (4 speed), but I would think you would be able to see a shifter handle sticking up there as tall as they where. I don't know about her sometime Haha. Thanks for everybody's help on this. Rick

hello & welcome 

[Hemi Runner]

Gary Uftring owns several dealerships in the area and lives in the neighborhood up the hill. He also has a nice collection of cars and is a Mopar guy I hear.

[heller426]

My wife actually called uftring a couple of months back and talked to his secretary and explained the situation, she was going to pass the information along to him. Hemi Runner are you in the area? I'm like 30 miles to the east of there.

[Hemi Runner]

Yes, I'm in East Peoria.  I know the Uftring group operations manager and a bunch of his other employees. I'm building a bird clone.  I know of two other birds in the area but doubt either is the car you're looking for.

[Hemi Runner]

Are you part of the Heller clan around the El Paso area?

[heller426]

Yes, I am part of that clan. How far along is your bird project? would love to see some pics of that.

[6bblgt]

I have VIN numbers for 29 "PETTY BLUE" Superbirds

21 are 440HP 4bbl ("U"):
6 have white bucket seat (P6XW) & 8 are unknown interiors
of these
5 are known 4-speed, 1 is known automatic, & 8 are unknown transmission

plus an additional 14-21 unaccounted for of the 43-50 "PETTY BLUE" Superbirds built.  Did it survive the '70s?

prime candidates:
RM23U0A158628
RM23U0A158632
RM23U0A158633
RM23U0A158634
RM23U0A158636
RM23U0A175692 (auto)

Do any of these have early Illinois history?

[heller426]

Would the DMV be able to run those vin numbers and get a list of previous owners back to the original?

[Arnie Cunningham]

That often depends upon the State.  ND used to have everything on file.  Other States purge records.  It is worth asking.

[Hemi Runner]

Yes, I am part of that clan. How far along is your bird project? would love to see some pics of that.

Here's my build thread...
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?86396-70-Hemi-Superbird-Restoration-errr-scratch-that

[nascarxx29]

Longshot seen this petty blue white interior bird on face book guy has had since 81 think its in ohio     1 of 5 440-4V 4-Speed cars in Corporation Blue with white buckets and the first of those produced. 38,000 original miles. I've owned it since 1981

[heller426]

Wow! nice work Hemi Runner, I had a cuda tore down like that about a year and a half ago, that is ALOT of work. I know why the body shops get big bucks for doing that kind of work. Nascarxx29 can you pm me that guys name? I would like to check that one out.

[rainbow4jd]

Longshot seen this petty blue white interior bird on face book guy has had since 81 think its in ohio     1 of 5 440-4V 4-Speed cars in Corporation Blue with white buckets and the first of those produced. 38,000 original miles. I've owned it since 1981

Thats me    In Pittsburgh by way of Akron OH by way of Cincinnati OH by way of Lexington KY where I bought the bird.

J99501

I've owned it since 1981 but know the prior owner who bought it from Clean Auto Sales in Cynthiana KY in 1972 (I think) might have been 1973.  The dealer had got it at a Chrysler factory auction and supposedly it had been a dealer demo (which made sense because they were tough to sell)    The dealer demo story might not be true.  IT COULD HAVE BEEN A TRADE IN BACK TO THE DEALER or even became a demo after the trade in.  It had really low miles on it.    So that might be the big question.   How many miles were on it when it was traded back in


It sure would be cool to finally find the original owner.  I just need never thought there was one because of the demo story.

[rainbow4jd]

Sorry I didn't reply earlier when I saw this post.  The column shift comment threw me off but I realize that was speculation

[Arnie Cunningham]

Interesting, do the other apparent options match up?

[Arnie Cunningham]

I played around with the resolution a bit to see if anything more could be determined.  If you scanned the photos at a high dpi you may be able to play around with them and pull out some more details.  The emailed photos I have are pretty small files.

[rainbow4jd]

Brennan,

At face value the options match (presuming its a 4 speed and I bet MOMMA would know - that's something you aren't likely to forget)

As described from the photo - all the following match.

Corporate Blue 999
White Bucket Interior
440-4V
4-speed (presumed based on MIL's comments)
15" Rallyes  -- note:  In the photo it has 14"s because I have the 15"s sand blasted with NOS trim rings for my Concours Restoration (now in progress)
Clear Side Glass
No Passenger Mirror
Radio

It was pretty rough when I got it - but the miles were very low - that NORMALLY would indicate it saw some northern winters.

[heller426]

Literally got chills when I read my email and the last few posts on here today. This is the closest we have ever got to finding that bird. I wish I could find the vin# somewhere to verify it. We are trying to contact two other people that my FIL used to run around with back then, they all three had birds and see if they have any more info on it or photos. Rainbow4jd, I don't know about the mileage, could of been pretty low, MIL says they had it maybe 2 or 3 years and traded it in. As for pictures the 2 posted on here are the only ones I have of it.

[nascarxx29]

Heller you might also find vin on old registrations insurance cards glove box related p ap erwork from warrantys papers.Hope this car is it

[Arnie Cunningham]

Does J99501 have any other unusual options such as 6 way seat, dealer installed AC, trunk light group, three speaker dash, 8 track or am fm?  Something that might make it stand out?  The steering wheel looks like standard black - not a rim blow or wood grain.

Also, if you don't mind releasing the VIN, the State DOTs may be able to trace that.

Another thing I see is no front license plate.

[rainbow4jd]

Does J99501 have any other unusual options such as 6 way seat, dealer installed AC, trunk light group, three speaker dash, 8 track or am fm?  Something that might make it stand out?  The steering wheel looks like standard black - not a rim blow or wood grain.

Also, if you don't mind releasing the VIN, the State DOTs may be able to trace that.

Another thing I see is no front license plate.

Nothing unusual that I'm aware of.    

The only thing MIGHT be...  

The headliner was missing when I bought the car but there was a small remnant of white material    For that reason I INCORRECTLY put white headliner material in - not knowing at the time that all Burds were black headliner.  IF for some reason they accidentally put a white liner      But that's speculative on my part    I think it was probably just a piece of the liner padding. 

RM23U0A  158628

You had listed it in an earlier post on the probables.

Hope to hear from the Heller fellow    I sent an email ( I think)

[nascarxx29]

A guy I knew from Lexington KY had superbirds think he might have had a petty blue.Anyone remember Benny Lyons

[rainbow4jd]

A guy I knew from Lexington KY had superbirds think he might have had a petty blue.Anyone remember Benny Lyons

Yeah - we know/knew Benny

I lived in Lexington most of my life, so anyone in and around the area - I probably crossed paths with at some point.

My good friend (restoration supervisor) is Bryan Skanes - son of the late Ed Skanes and Vintage Trans-Am racing.   They had a hemi daytona and 440 Superbird in their collection at one time.   They also restored the Dan Gurney AAR Cuda and the Sam Posey Challenger (both of them)    They have the Petty Kit Car Challenger for sale now and have a Petty Kit car Aspen up next in the cue

[rainbow4jd]

Literally got chills when I read my email and the last few posts on here today. This is the closest we have ever got to finding that bird. I wish I could find the vin# somewhere to verify it. We are trying to contact two other people that my FIL used to run around with back then, they all three had birds and see if they have any more info on it or photos. Rainbow4jd, I don't know about the mileage, could of been pretty low, MIL says they had it maybe 2 or 3 years and traded it in. As for pictures the 2 posted on here are the only ones I have of it.

At some point - I need to come your way and chat with MIL!   I want to know WHAT prompted them to buy the car, was it a daily driver or Sunday cruiser, things like that!

I'm probably as excited as you are about the possibilities

Are you near Chicago at all?

[heller426]

Happy New Year Rainbow4jd! I am 2 hours south of Chicago a little town called El Paso. From what my MIL tells me it was the only car they had at the time. FIL worked in Roanoke Illinois witch is about 8 to 10 miles from Secor Illinois were they lived. So it probably was a low mile car when he traded it in. Called state police yesterday but they could not find anything on my FIL, records purged after 10 years. But got a number to call to where they can pull micro film on all the old records! of course everybody's out of the office until Monday. So hoping they can find me a vin#. Could defiantly set up a meeting if you are ever in the area that would be cool. 

[70Sbird]

Hello all, I'm the guy looking for the petty blue bird. Nascarxx29 that is a good article on John Bearce I have never seen that. The other guy he mentions in the article Gary Uftring is the salesman that sold the superbird to my father in law. Arnie Cunningham, I agree with you to about the shadow of a column shift lever that's what I thought to. Talking to my mother in law about the car as she used to drive it, she swears she remembers having to shift it (4 speed), but I would think you would be able to see a shifter handle sticking up there as tall as they where. I don't know about her sometime Haha. Thanks for everybody's help on this. Rick

Hello Rick, and welcome to the site.
You will learn that the collective knowledge, networking and documentation that this group can produce is astounding.
I'm also a lifetime resident of the Peoria area (currently in Dunlap) and have a B5 Blue Superbird. I'm probably not much help though other than moral support. I don't remember seeing or even ever hearing of a Petty Blue Bird in the area.

I've read most of the posts here including Brennans forwarding of your initial request.
I just have a couple of questions and or comments. Did your dad buy this car used from John Bearce? Bearce was/is a Ford dealer in Washington IL and maybe sold it as a used car? I don't believe he ever sold Mopar products, but I was only 5 years old in 1970 so I may be mistaken.
Also, I saw you mentioned your FIL was Jim Baker. Is that the same Jim Baker of Baker Classic cars in East Peoria?
Happy New Year and I wish you luck on your quest!

[rickroadrunner]

My Superbird is VIN 158632. It is the one of 5 listed as 440-4, 4 speed, white bucket interior. Basically exactly the same as Rainbow4jd, 158628.
I don't have any prior history to 1979. It went to El Salvador from around 1980 to 1990. Went into storage in LA, 1990-2011, Australia 2011 to present.
The only thing I have is attached business card that fell out of the dash when I pulled the dash top. Whether this was from a prior owner, or maybe the owner at the time stayed there.
Could be a long shot, from east cost to west. The car was completely rust free, so may also eliminate the possibility of having lived in Illinois. Or maybe it went west early in its life. Good luck with the search!

[C5X DAYTONA]

My Superbird is VIN 158632. It is the one of 5 listed as 440-4, 4 speed, white bucket interior. Basically exactly the same as Rainbow4jd, 158628.
I don't have any prior history to 1979. It went to El Salvador from around 1980 to 1990. Went into storage in LA, 1990-2011, Australia 2011 to present.
The only thing I have is attached business card that fell out of the dash when I pulled the dash top. Whether this was from a prior owner, or maybe the owner at the time stayed there.
Could be a long shot, from east cost to west. The car was completely rust free, so may also eliminate the possibility of having lived in Illinois. Or maybe it went west early in its life. Good luck with the search!

Hello Rick,  On 8-21-1975 your bird was owned by a guy named Francisco R. Toledo.   Calif plate was 147 GHS      Notes say it had a lot of dents on car.   I have an address and Phone number for Francisco but it's literally from 40 years ago..   The car was in Pacoima CA.

[6bblgt]

I have a vintage (1972?) list of 115 state of Illinois Chrysler Corp. dealerships - none are shown in Washington, IL nor with the name "Bearce" in the dealership's name.

it is by no means all-inclusive, but the Ford reference above made me look - any other ideas of the dealership name and/or location?

[PettyMower]

Looking through my ads from Illinois, this is the closest match I've found. It's from an area approximately an hour and a half away from Washington. All of my other ads were 2-hours or more away.

http://moparadsandoddities.blogspot.com/2016/01/plymouth-superbird-440-4-speed-il-1973.html

[heller426]

70Sbird, You are right this site is awesome! I never thought I would get such a big response to my post. Jim and Jack Baker were brothers and had a couple of businesses at the time, I guess they had a falling out and Jim went his own way. I think Jack still has Baker Classic Cars. The bird could of been used when he bought it from Bearce, that makes sense since it was a ford dealership, the two pics I have are dated April 1971 on the back. So if it was used whoever bought it new never kept it long. C5XDAYTONA, interesting information. Was this car confirmed as previously being owned by Jim Baker?

[Arnie Cunningham]

Just to clear up potential confusion - is Rick the first name of rickroadrunner AND Rick Heller? Heller426

[heller426]

My mistake, I think C5XDAYTONA's post was about rickroadrunners car, my name is Rick also.

[6bblgt]

My Superbird is VIN 158632. It is the one of 5 listed as 440-4, 4 speed, white bucket interior. Basically exactly the same as Rainbow4jd, 158628.
I don't have any prior history to 1979. It went to El Salvador from around 1980 to 1990. Went into storage in LA, 1990-2011, Australia 2011 to present.
The only thing I have is attached business card that fell out of the dash when I pulled the dash top. Whether this was from a prior owner, or maybe the owner at the time stayed there.
Could be a long shot, from east cost to west. The car was completely rust free, so may also eliminate the possibility of having lived in Illinois. Or maybe it went west early in its life. Good luck with the search!

there was a recent post somewhere (here or Moparts) that someone commented on a dealer demo Petty blue Superbird that his buddy (who's father owned a dealership) would occasionally drive to high school in WASHINGTON

now where did I read that 

[rainbow4jd]

My Superbird is VIN 158632. It is the one of 5 listed as 440-4, 4 speed, white bucket interior. Basically exactly the same as Rainbow4jd, 158628.
I don't have any prior history to 1979. It went to El Salvador from around 1980 to 1990. Went into storage in LA, 1990-2011, Australia 2011 to present.
The only thing I have is attached business card that fell out of the dash when I pulled the dash top. Whether this was from a prior owner, or maybe the owner at the time stayed there.
Could be a long shot, from east cost to west. The car was completely rust free, so may also eliminate the possibility of having lived in Illinois. Or maybe it went west early in its life. Good luck with the search!

there was a recent post somewhere (here or Moparts) that someone commented on a dealer demo Petty blue Superbird that his buddy (who's father owned a dealership) would occasionally drive to high school in WASHINGTON

now where did I read that 

Hmmm - I think the Bird that Rick Heller started this thread with - only had two daughters, no sons.   He's the son-in-law      So maybe the buddy was she-buddy?

[nascarxx29]

 About 1979 recorded old wing car club account RM23UOA171684 show corporate blue blk interior buckets no console 4 speed owner Payson Crowell Richmond Virginia

[6bblgt]

I guess this is fallout from the too many Rick's ......

the now Australia Petty Blue Superbird appears to have a connection to WASHINGTON state (business card) - there was a recent post about a WASHINGTON dealer's son (not owner) taking a Petty Blue Superbird off the lot, driving it to high school
probably eliminating the Australia Petty Blue Superbird as being the car "heller426" is looking for

[6bblgt]

About 1979 recorded old wing car club account RM23U0A171684 show corporate blue blk interior buckets no console 4 speed owner Payson Crowell Richmond Virginia

that is "J99530"

RM23U0A158633 "J99506" (white bucket & 4-spd)
RM23U0A158634 "J99507" (white bucket & 4-spd)
RM23U0A158636 "J99509" (white bucket & 4-spd)
RM23U0A175692 "J99518" (white bucket & auto)

"nascarxx29" any old club accounts on any of these?  do any of these have early Illinois history? or what part of the country do they appear in?

[nascarxx29]

I did check corporate blue cars againist locations .So far nothing close

[C5X DAYTONA]

My mistake, I think C5XDAYTONA's post was about rickroadrunners car, my name is Rick also.

Yes,   I was leaving richroadrunners info on the vin he posted.   

[6bblgt]

  sorting files on my computer & found these - does this "PETTY BLUE" Superbird look familiar to any one?

[nascarxx29]

Any new leads or info matching up pettybird to vintage picture

[rainbow4jd]

Any new leads or info matching up pettybird to vintage picture

Nothing on my end.  I sent an email to mr baker but haven't heard anything.   I do think it is likely my bird given the timing of the events described.    I have history back to about 73 and their history ends about then

[rainbow4jd]

I haven't heard anything more about this.

I did send an email to the inquisitor (at the email given) but haven't heard back.

Note:  one way to maybe find an old VIN number is to check with the insurance agency.    Most folks rarely change auto insurance companies and if they pull your file - you'll be surprised at what is inside.

Would love to hear direct from the fellow whose MIL had the car.    rainbow4jd@vroomvroomracing <dot>com    Replace te <dot> with the period.