Questions about 1970 door VIN decals

[resq302]

Kind of like one of those "no two snow flakes are exactly the same" deals huh?

[Chargerguy74]

All I know is, I have 5 door VIN decals I want reproduced, and I am just one member, and just one potential customer, that came across this thread. I'm sure there are many, many more.

[JB400]

I, myself was looking into emission decals, the date coded glass, and maybe, original style carpet.

[Chargerguy74]

Oh wow, I had no idea. ECS could really take care of a lot of stuff for a guy restoring a mopar. This thread was good for business, lots of exposure, I definitely know more about the company now.

[resq302]

Who would you rather do business with?  Someone who is passionate about their business / hobby who stands up for themselves / their business who makes a great / quality product or someone who lets someone walk all over them and their business and puts out a sub par product that might need to be tweaked or not look / fit as original? 

Maybe you would like to go to a doctor who has been sued for malpractice and paid out money so their name didn't get dragged through the mud vs a doctor who knew he was right, had proof, and stood up to the person putting in the bogus malpractice claim trying to make a quick buck?  I know who I would go to !  There is a particular town in NJ whose is department is in the right, abiding by the laws / procedures,  yet the town would rather pay out settlements to people so as not to drag out the law suit, which would make the town look bad, potentially cost the town more due to the process being dragged out.  The end result is that now this particular town has more people filing suits and costing the town more in the long run.  Had this town stood up since they were right, they wouldn't have every person trying to take advantage of every single little opportunity to make a quick buck.  People like this the town should stand up to and make an example of so as to let others know who are thinking of this to think twice before try and make a bogus claim.

[bill440rt]

Right, but I think the info people are looking for in this thread only pertains to apples. (Title: "Questions about 1970 door VIN decals")
They are not seeking info on lemons. Or limes. Or watermelons.  

The pictures I posted WERE in reference to 1970 Door VIN Decals.  If you actually were referring to CHARGER 1970 Door VIN Decals, I'll ask you the question again.  Are you assuming that Charger VIN Decals had a different criteria for how they were made?  The ones I pictured here were completely random in my efforts to find them.  I did not go to a particular box and immediately locate those.  They are the anomalies that have no rhyme or reason for their odd print variations.  If I continued to look for another 6 hours, I may have come across a 1970 Charger VIN Decal with an odd print feature.  I know because I have seen them sometime in the past 12 years.  

Once again you seem to be insinuating that I should be trying to research the unplanned mistakes, that may have happened to random examples, that might have taken place on an accidental basis.   I simply don't have the ability to use X Ray Vision to see into the 25+ boxes that they are stored in.  The random examples were compiled over a 12 year span and they are in no particular order.  All of them were added to the mix as the Customers randomly ordered them.  Why is this so hard for some of you to understand?  If I could just walk over and pull an "odd Charger VIN example" like a Magician pulls a card from a deck, I would have done it!  I still don't know what good it is to research this unless the weird Decal would have come off of YOUR Car!  If that were the case, wouldn't you already KNOW the answer to your question?  Are the rest of you (who might ever want to order one) going to ask that I change your Charger VIN to represent a weird anomaly, specific to another vehicle?  

Someone help me understand what the importance is for trying to research an accidental needle in the haystack?  Should my next "documentation exercise" be to research the rock salt pebbles that were distributed in a two foot section on the road (during the last snow storm) and form a hypothesis about that random & non-planned sampling distribution?

Again, I have no argument here.
YES, I was referring to 1970 CHARGER door VIN decals. Sorry, should have been more specific, but since that is the whole PREMISE of this thread I didn't think it was necessary to state the obvious.
"Are you assuming that Charger VIN Decals had a different criteria for how they were made?"   I thought I answered this already, can't speak for anyone else but again: No. Or, highly doubtful. (Just my thoughts, a hypothesis, not fact.)

No one is telling you HAVE to go searching for these things. If you'd like to, great. If not, no problem.  (Sorry, deja vu.)
The importance may be as simple as human curiousity in the endless research of finding out all the quirks/mistakes that were involved with these cars. Possibly nothing more.
Maybe some members can post pics of theirs also, as originally requested.

I'm not insinuating anything.
I have no hidden agenda.
I'm not out to pin anyone against a wall or expose anything.
I just like Chargers.

I'll go back to my corner and continue sucking my thumb. It's getting wrinkly by now.

[dyslexic teddybear]

Who would you rather do business with?  Someone who is passionate about their business / hobby who stands up for themselves / their business who makes a great / quality product or someone who lets someone walk all over them and their business and puts out a sub par product that might need to be tweaked or not look / fit as original?  

Interesting question. Who would I rather [key word] do business with?

I would [key word rather] do business with someone decent. Being passionate/stands up for themselves does not guarantee great product......nor that being a nice person guarantees a product that looks and fits as original.

Realistically.....as ECS seems to be the only legal source.....there isn't much choice is there? To be fair, ECS makes good product, and is to be commended for doing so. Everyone should remember that.......as sole source, they don't have to.

Also realistically......over the years as a small business owner, as well as personally......I had to deal with many people who I really would have rather [key word] not have had to. That's just the way life is. Everyone has an anus......doesn't mean you have to act like one.

As I have stated before......I hate fakes. And I hate it when something is misrepresented as real, when in fact, it is not. And it's interesting when proof is posted........

[ECS]

The importance may be as simple as human curiousity in the endless research of finding out all the quirks/mistakes that were involved with these cars. Possibly nothing more.

Hi Bill!  I really appreciate your input and do not want to come across "rude" (like I have with a couple here) who are desperately trying to disprove these "quirks" just for the sake of proving me wrong.  I re-asked you the question about Chargers being different because you continue to express wanting to see one of those examples as if it's going to illustrate something different than the other random VIN examples I posted.  I guarantee it will probable convey some type of difference because the "mistakes" were random and not planned out or deliberate.   

I also tried to point out in a previous post that what I provide here will never represent "all of the quirks" that are out there for 1970 Chargers.  I seriously doubt that I will ever have access to EVERY particular VIN example that was made for one specific Model vehicle.  I guarantee that when I post one that illustrates a "mistake", one of my critics will respond with the typical "yeah but that don't mean anything!  I want to see a DIFFERENT type of mistake".  It will never end with some of these people because they don't really want to learn anything about the facts regarding the questions being asked here.  All they want to do is find a "GOTCHA" moment as it relates to ANY information I post about.

[ECS]

Maybe some members can post pics of theirs also, as originally requested.

One other point I would like to make clear.  I will never "share" the documentation I have received from my Customers with anyone other than Chrysler.  Their information was used as registration proof for a product we are licensed to manufacture.  The data is confidential and will never be transferred to anyone who does not have legitimate VIN authority or just collects numbers for their self serving recreational purposes. 

[ECS]

Either contribute something relevant to the topic......

I'm not sure how "relevant" that some are going to consider this information but here goes.  I spent a few more hours going through some VIN boxes (shown below) and have located additional anomalies in the World of Chrysler VIN Decals.  I hope you can now understand why the effort of locating these unique samples has been so difficult.  Are there more oddities in the THOUSANDS that I have accumulated?  I can guarantee it.  There are even MORE out there that I may never be able to document or personally see.

Here are a few questions for the people who are so interested in these "ONE OF A KIND" variations.  What was the reason for the letter spacing variations?  Why was the print shifted in different positions within the designated print areas?  Can anybody provide a valid, certifiable, reliable, documented, concrete reason for these weird nuances?  I certainly can't!

NOTE:  If some watching this thread identifies that one of these decals is your example, please feel free to comment and/or verify the contents of what I have posted.  Thanks!















 

[JB400]

Let me be the first to say:  Thank you

[nvrbdn]

yep, thanks. you have done well grasshopper. so if these were all done on a computer keyboard (as I believe I remember from earlier, but I am ageing) and the decals would roll through the printer ( again an assumption as I don't know the machinery used) the space between the U and the 0 on the third from the bottom would have to be a fat finger error. the typest just hit space. the real kicker would be if it were possible to see a string of tags that were all done in a row ( which I understand would be an impossibility) to see if it was just the person making an error on 1 tag as they were typing, or actually put that space in several while the regular person was on a smoke break.

   ok, I know it would be reaching for the moon.

[ECS]

Let me be the first to say:  Thank you

You are very, very welcome!  I sincerely appreciate your comment.  It makes things like this worth the effort!   

[ECS]

......the space between the U and the 0 on the third from the bottom would have to be a fat finger error. the typest just hit space......

That may have happened just the way you explained it.  I have two machines that are the exact style of electric typing device that was used by the Chrysler Employees who did the Manual Typed versions.  There are times when I am typing a VIN where the machine will move two spaces when I press a single character.  I've even hit the space bar one time but the machine jumped two digits!  I would think that they experienced some of the exact same scenarios that I have encountered.  

Look again at the later year VIN that I posted above the Charger examples.  The characters are not lined up and the vehicle number illustrates that TWO unorthodox spaces occurred within the same number.  What's even more perplexing is how the characters next to the open spaces ended up being kerned closer together than they normally would have been.  It's as if the printing device anticipated the spacing "error" and compensated by condensing the spacing between the surrounding characters.   The print throughout the entire Decal is unorthodox and the standard kerning becomes consistent again when the MDH charters are printed.  What happened to make the device start to print "normal" again?  

 

[1974dodgecharger]

IS MINE IN THERE SOMEWHERE?

[ECS]

IS MINE IN THERE SOMEWHERE?

I have no idea who ordered the examples I posted.  If you recognize one that looks like yours it very well could be!  They were pulled from a box that dated back to 2004.

[nvrbdn]

cool examples. now, when the printer is loaded with the decals. is it a roll that feeds through? and then can it move back and forth? I know we have zebra printers with info and bar codes at the mill where I work, and we print from a computer. on these we load the decal rolls and ink strips separately. they do have some ability to move, but not much. I am assuming that the decal system you have is comparable to these.

[ECS]

cool examples. now, when the printer is loaded with the decals. is it a roll that feeds through? and then can it move back and forth? I know we have zebra printers with info and bar codes at the mill where I work, and we print from a computer. on these we load the decal rolls and ink strips separately. they do have some ability to move, but not much. I am assuming that the decal system you have is comparable to these.

You are correct with your explanation about how they were printed.  My Company however, would have to own more than 40 Zebra type printers to be able to manufacture the tremendous amount of variations we receive in just one day.  We own 1 of the 4 machines (in the entire Country) that print our VIN Decals.  Our Raster Image Processing Programs allows us to position the characters exactly like we want them to be positioned.  It would be impossible to use a Zebra type printer and duplicate the same type of print patterns that an original once had, by simply entering the data and expecting every nuance to randomly be positioned the exact same way.  When we receive images of the Label that need to be reproduced, we are able to move the characters in any position and duplicate whatever printing anomaly that is documented from the original example.  

Our equipment is also able to cut ANY shape or programmed pattern.  Many of our GM Union Decals are cut to represent the shape of the State that the Assembly Plant is located in.  Zebra type printers are limited to a particular roll stock and size for their Label processing.  Our tamper resistant rolls of material are 54 inches wide and entire sheets are printed with many different size Labels, all at the same time.  I can post a photo of an uncut sheet to show you that part of our process if you are interested.  

[ECS]

There is only one possible scenario I can think of for any variations of the Door VIN decal....a vehicle missed its final line station where a door Safety Certification VIN decal would have been applied, applied at a later time, or removed and re-applied.

I hope this thread has dispelled the misconception that there is only "one possible scenario" for variations with Chrysler VIN Decals.  (This also includes February 1970 dated VIN Decals.)  There were 2 digit "69" dates printed as well as 4 digit "1969".  The same for 1970 Decals.  While these are the exceptions & not the rule, there isn't any "one" particular scenario or 2 or 3 to explain these variations because there is no explanation for these oddities.  You'll find rare anomalies that display differing fonts, spacing, print shifting and many other unique characteristics.  They are nothing more than Employee variations that occurred due to random circumstance.

[nvrbdn]

is the system still the same today where the human factor can be involved, or is it all done by machine? second thought is, was there a time where chrysler ever said to all plants " we gave you freedom of expression in the past as long as the information was used, but from now on these decals should be done this way" , or was it always a plant decision thing?

[ECS]

is the system still the same today where the human factor can be involved, or is it all done by machine? second thought is, was there a time where chrysler ever said to all plants " we gave you freedom of expression in the past as long as the information was used, but from now on these decals should be done this way" , or was it always a plant decision thing?

The technology is different but People still have to enter the information.  We still find "odd" spacing and differences in the Modern Day Decals we manufacture.

There is one constant that has been completely overlooked and is actually the point I have been trying to convey.  Everyone of the various original Decals posted here ALL comply with the NHTSA Standards that were spelled out regarding the Laws that govern the program.  The different Car Builders had their own processes to make these items but they had to do so in compliance with the Law.  It didn't matter where the information was shifted in the spaces or if the dates used a 2 or 4 digit format.  When something disrupted their internal process, they simply made the necessary "changes" to continue placing the Labels on the Vehicles but with the mindset of complying with the governing Laws.

Keep in mind that while this thread has brought about some interesting information, it was never started to research the data we have been discussing here.  

[Dodge Don]

Here is an update on what I have (all supported by pictures on file). IN SPD and VIN sequence. VIN protected to retain confidentiality. Again, these are just 70 Chargers which were all built at St. Louis plant which is my only focus. I assume the other 1970 St. Louis built cars would see similar results.

Again, the reason I looked at this was because we noticed some differences and mined the data to see if we could provide 70 Charger owners with guidance on the formats.

802   AUGUST 1969
802   AUGUST 1969
802   AUGUST 1969
804   AUGUST 1969
805   AUGUST 1969
806   AUGUST 1969
808   AUGUST 1969
808   AUGUST 1969
808   AUGUST 1969
811   AUGUST 1969
811   AUGUST 1969
813   SEPTEMBER 1969
813   AUGUST 1969
815   AUGUST 1969
815   AUGUST 1969
815   AUGUST 1969
818   AUGUST 1969
818   AUGUST 1969
818   AUGUST 1969
821   AUGUST 1969
828   AUGUST 1969
903   SEPTEMBER 1969
903   SEPTEMBER 1969
904   SEPTEMBER 1969
905   AUGUST 1969
908   9 - 1969
908   SEPTEMBER 1969
908   SEPTEMBER 1969
908   9 - 1969
908   SEPTEMBER 1969
911   SEPTEMBER 1969
912   9 - 1969
912   SEPTEMBER 1969
913   SEPTEMBER 1969
915   9 - 1969
915   9 - 1969
915   9 - 1969
917   9 - 1969
918   9 - 1969
923   9 - 1969
923   9 - 1969
926   10 - 1969
929   10 - 1969
930   9 - 1969
A01   10 - 1969
A08   10 - 1969
A10   10 - 1969
A15   10 - 1969
A15   10 - 1969
A16   10 - 1969
A16   10 - 1969
A21   11 - 1969
A22   10 - 1969
A27   10 - 1969
A29   10 - 1969
B05   10 - 1969
B05   10 - 1969
B06   11 - 1969
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C17   1 - 1970
C17   12 - 1969
C17   12 - 1969
C17   12 - 1969
C17   12 - 1969
C18   12 - 1969
C18   1 - 1970
105   1 - 1970
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106   12 - 1969
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211   2 - 1970
211   3/70
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