DodgeCharger.com MEMBERS, MODERATORS AND TROY.

[skip68]

What's been going on here?     
I've heard of long time members leaving unhappy for awhile now.
I've heard of long time members being banned that have never been known as trouble makers such as Tufcat and others. 
I've seen members here that are still here that have been known to overstep their bounds and do what I consider challenge and mock authorities.   
 
So what gives?     
I don't have all the details so I can't point fingers.  I'm simply just trying to understand what's been happening here.   
Am I next to be invited to leave? 
Is it time for me to leave voluntarily?   
Has the site become so large it's hard to manage? 
This has been my favorite site for the last 10 years and it seems It's just not the same anymore.   
So I ask that any and all that know what's happening educate me please. 
Your loyal and outspoken member, skip68.   

[RallyeMike]

I know everyone wants me to hold back, but as hard as it is, it's time you knew. This has to be said!

It's...... it's the ........ the Camaro   

[Troy]

1. People leave. It happens. There are times when the only reason I make it here is to clean out the bogus/spam accounts. Some people sell or lose their car and no longer feel the need to hang out. Some people get overwhelmed with "life" (this list is a long one!). But new people join as well. It's sort of the blessing and the curse of the internet rolled into one.
2. Usually this site is self-moderating and other members will let someone know when their behavior is unacceptable.
3. If a member is causing problems they usually get ample warning from the moderators before action is taken. This usually is the direct result of being bombarded with "Report to Moderator" notifications.
4. In most cases a ban - even as a last resort - is temporary. It's sort of a "wake up call" and what happens next is totally under the member's control. Hint: if your first response is "but <other member> did this" then your case is weakening by the second. This isn't kindergarten! And we'll deal with everyone individually. If your response is "yeah, I'm a dumbass" then your situation has greatly improved.
5. I'm the only one with the power to ban someone from the site. I generally will not make this decision on my own though. In the first 8 years I was in charge, I had to permanently ban a grand total of 6 people. Much like the legal system, this usually comes down to intent.
6. Whenever possible/practicable, the site's dealings with members are kept private. Much like a parts/car deal-gone-wrong, throwing all your feelings out into the public eye usually is an invitation for disaster.
7. A couple of easy ways to get yourself on the "watch list": personal attacks on other members, multiple user accounts (especially when used to agree with yourself in threads), posting/linking porn (that includes "nip slips" - no nudity here!), posting/linking anything illegal (yes, that includes "free" copies of stuff that typically isn't free), spamming, trolling, and other blatant disregard of the posted rules. Insulting me or the Moderators who help provide this free source of knowledge, camaraderie, and entertainment typically won't get you punished (but does make you a jackass). People don't always see eye to eye - it's how they handle their differences that determines their fate.

Yes, Tuffcat is banned. But he's been banned from a whole host of web forums so that shouldn't be a real big surprise. I like the guy but that doesn't have any bearing on the site itself.

Troy

[Drache]

Im here only because Skip is 

[skip68]

Gotcha Troy.   Drache, I'm only here because you're here.     

[ws23rt]

I've done a lot of reading on other sites like fbbo for example and see many post from jackasses that we see very little of here.

Maybe jackasses just don't like to have the civil conversation that this site gives?  

I can be (and have been) a jackass just fine if provoked by another but they don't seem to hang out here much.  I like this place.

[XH29N0G]

Thanks Skip for the question.
Thanks Troy for the explanation.

I didn't know I could have extra accounts just to agree with myself. 

[skip68]

Am I next to be invited to leave?  
Is it time for me to leave voluntarily?    

What about my questions?     

[Lord Warlock]

I'm a bit more active now than I have been for the past 10 years, but its a trade off, just means I am on the challenger boards, or the dodge stealth boards less.  Been a Co-admin/moderator for the 3000GT/Stealth site since 2006, but am distancing myself from there as I have little interest in that platform anymore, and want to focus on the charger and challenger for now. 

People often tire of one site and look around for alternatives, eventually they come back to quality sites.  This one doesn't allow politics, so if I want to argue politics I have to go to the stealth site, can't do it on the challenger board either.  I rarely argue politics now anyway, just don't care anymore. 

Never been banned, been warned once or twice though, that is usually enough for me to stay off edgy topics.  Been on this site or the old one since the internet first got popular and I found it back then, pretty sure its been longer than 10 years.

[A383Wing]

I miss TuffKitty

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Gotcha Troy.   Drache, I'm only here because you're here.    

Hey, what about me?    

[A383Wing]

Gotcha Troy.   Drache, I'm only here because you're here.    

Hey, what about me?    

yer still a "dick head"...doesn't make any difference how many times you change your name here

[69bronzeT5]

Yes, Tuffcat is banned. But he's been banned from a whole host of web forums so that shouldn't be a real big surprise. I like the guy but that doesn't have any bearing on the site itself.

Troy

This is the only forum he's banned from......

[polywideblock]

 

[Ghoste]

Yes, Tuffcat is banned. But he's been banned from a whole host of web forums so that shouldn't be a real big surprise. I like the guy but that doesn't have any bearing on the site itself.

Troy

This is the only forum he's banned from......

I definitely don't know the stats but isn't his nemesis banned from an awful lot too?

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Gotcha Troy.   Drache, I'm only here because you're here.    

Hey, what about me?    

yer still a "dick head"...doesn't make any difference how many times you change your name here

[skip68]

I'm not sure the exact moment tuffy was banned and haven't found anything really bad other than a feud between him and this ECS member.  
ECS clearly started trouble with tuffy in the thread I read.   ECS started in on tuffy for no reason.  ECS brought an issue with tuffy from another website to here.  He continued to pursue tuffy and it's very clear he (ECS) was the instigator.   So, I continued to research this ECS and found he's had issues with others on other sites.   Lots of repetitive babel of some story about a 4door cuda that some mail room worker says he saw twice
No pictures, documentation, other testimonials or anything.  So this ECS is building a concept car based on a old story and imagination of what it could've looked like. Wonderful.    He seems to challenge everyone to prove it didn't exist when in reality it's on him to prove it did.  Unfortunately the only thing real that he has with this car that he can prove is a old story.  
Now, unless there has been any new evidence that I'm unaware of that indeed this car existed it's just a story.  What really makes no sense to me is this.  Why would you start building a car and passing it off as it was really a car that was built based on a old story without investigating it further and verifying it?   It's just hearsay.  It's one thing to find it interesting and build it for yourself and tell the story.  But to build this car and say it's a replica of a real car that was built without proof is misleading.  Honesty and credibility are lacking here.  Could this car have been real?  Absolutely.  Could this car be just a story?  Absolutely.    
We all know how many stories are out there and they never end.  That doesn't mean the stories aren't true.   It just means they can't be proven and without proof they cannot be claimed, advertised, sold or represented as true.

Evidently tuffy's father worked for Chrysler back then and joined our site and told ECS that he as well as others have no memory of such a car.   ECS responded to tuffy's dad that  offended me as I'm reading.  Rude and disrespectful.  I'm still reading so I'll know more later but I will say this.   The moment ECS opened his mouth attacking tuffy about some crap from another website I would've kicked his ass out of here.   Actually I'd warn him first.   Then if that didn't work I'd tell him to take his story, imagination and car and sell it somewhere else.   Kinda reminds me of the 1890's sideshow guys selling tonic that cures everything without proof other than a good story
Not exactly what I'd consider professional behavior from a company.  The responses from ECS over and over again looks extremely amateurish for a business man. Kinda reminds me of the wonderful owner of bk auto.

Enough about that.  I'm not doing this to make anyone look bad, they've done that themselves.  I'm posting the truth as I have read it as I usually do.     It's looking like some mistakes have been made.  
Skip.    

[b5blue]

  Wow...who new so much drama was surging back and forth.  I for one like it here very much. As mentioned, other Mopar forums can get hard to find information or fellowship in the cause and now I see why I'm not on them much at all. (I avoid drama at work also.) Here the Mods and Troy take time to clean up during and after the party so we can have a good experience. So I'm thinking selfish minded people who don't care/understand that we are all guests in this community even if called "members" are "in Troy's house" not a bar. (A bar is for profit and staff/bouncers are paid as part of doing business to make that profit.)
  I guess it's the whole internet/computer thing or like gaming, spending hours and hours typing or pushing buttons /joysticks. Immersed in expressing yourself and caught up in making your point so you WIN! (?)
  Troy, Mods, thank you for your time and money spent sifting through the ruckus! My Charger is forever a better car from help gotten here and I have good friends all around the world because of the work you do behind the forum. 

[skip68]

Very true b5.  Nobody owes me an explanation as I'm just a passenger here like everyone else.  Who knows, by me starting this thread might be the end of me here.   If it comes down to it Troy doesn't need a reason.  It's up to him to dismiss someone if he wants to.   I just miss some of the gang that's all and am trying to find out what happened.  I have every right to want to know the truth but I don't have the right to get the answer because honestly it's none of my business.   So I'll try and get what I can and leave it at that.   

[Mytur Binsdirti]

  I'm just a passenger here like everyone else. 

When the ship is sinking, I'll be the one in the lifeboat helping the women & teenage daughters first.

[myk]

Very true b5.  Nobody owes me an explanation as I'm just a passenger here like everyone else.  Who knows, by me starting this thread might be the end of me here.   If it comes down to it Troy doesn't need a reason.  It's up to him to dismiss someone if he wants to.   I just miss some of the gang that's all and am trying to find out what happened.  I have every right to want to know the truth but I don't have the right to get the answer because honestly it's none of my business.   So I'll try and get what I can and leave it at that.   

Reach out to some of the remaining OG members; the answers are out there...

[skip68]

 I'm just a passenger here like everyone else.  

When the ship is sinking, I'll be the one in the lifeboat helping the women & teenage daughters first.

This ship is unsinkable.  It's built by American hands with tools from China.    

Thanks myk but I don't want to pursue this like a witch hunt.  I think that will create more damage then my curiosity is worth.   

[Drache]

  I'm just a passenger here like everyone else. 

When the ship is sinking, I'll be the one in the lifeboat helping the women & teenage daughters first.

[b5blue]

  Many times I've wondered why members don't contact each other with PM's and carry on with whatever through direct emails? 
  While I can't really be goaded into bickering, (You've the right to disagree on anything I do/say.) many times my communication is so specific it's no value to the rest of the community. I've many members email address for many reasons.  I'm surprised you don't have out of forum contact with Tuffy Skip. 

[skip68]

I do have some but not tuffy's.  I'm not much of an email guy and don't do Facebook.   I have had contact with members in private prior to me posting this thread.   Since I don't know all the details or members that are feeling the same I felt it best to throw it out there.   

[el dub]

Are you beating a dead horse? Ha Ha put that in the other thread.

[myk]

  Many times I've wondered why members don't contact each other with PM's and carry on with whatever through direct emails? 
  While I can't really be goaded into bickering, (You've the right to disagree on anything I do/say.) many times my communication is so specific it's no value to the rest of the community. I've many members email address for many reasons.  I'm surprised you don't have out of forum contact with Tuffy Skip. 

The many relationships in our lives have different dynamics.  For example: the people I work with are just that.  Just because I spend the workday collaborating with other department managers, receiving shipments from outside vendors, directing staff, and fooling around with waitresses in the elevator room, doesn't mean these relationships carry on after the clock is punched.  It's reasonable to see that many friendships and relationships on DC.com are only relevant when we're logged in.  That isn't a bad thing, that's just how our lives are, especially in the digital age...

[skip68]

That's mostly it.   

[skip68]

Hey Troy, can you tell me those websites tuffy was banned from?  Or anyone else?    I don't know where to look and am curious what he was doing on other sites.  Obviously I've missed quite a bit here.  I'm not a member on any other car sites as I really don't have any desire to bug other people than you guys.   
I take that back, I did join some sites long ago dealing with the bk auto idiot and possibly Joey but can't remember what. 
Thanks

[Troy]

So was this whole thread just a roundabout way to ask "why is Tufcat banned but not ECS"? Nice try. I'll warn you right now, trying to gang up on me in public about this will not end well. This decision was not made on a whim and there are very valid reasons for it.

Reading old threads isn't the greatest tactic as the most offensive posts are generally removed. Here's a relevant example:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,27281.msg299049.html#msg299049

Troy

[skip68]

Well, NO Troy.  Why would you say that and with this harsh warning?   I basically went with tuffy because his name came up in another thread so it was just the first name kinda thing.  I didn't know about ECS until after I started this thread and looking back at some of the last posts from tuffy and got some messages from others with similar comments.   Of course I'm curious as to why ECS isn't banned now but like I've already said it's your business unless you care to share with me.  When I started this thread it was others in my mind, not ECS.  I do know that going back isn't going to tell me everything because some posts may be gone.  But I don't know what went wrong so it's all I have other than asking everyone here as I think I've done.   Far as ganging up on you in public that's not true or my intention Troy.   I was simply asking you a question as to the statement you made about Tufcat being banned from other sites.   No biggie.  I apologize.  I took it as it's known information by you and others which is why I asked you and or others.  I didn't see it as a question that I needed to ask in private.  Again, I apologize.   Far as I know I've never questioned your judgement or any moderators over the years until now with the harsh warning.   I'm going to presume you're having a bad day or this is a very sore subject for you.   Either way, there's no need for further questions about tuffy as you've already answered me.   No more questions about banned members.   

[cavemanno1]

For my 1000nd posts i will say Thank You to Troy and the mods for making and running this site!

For me being far far away from you guys this is the only good source to help me with chargers.I don't know what Tufcat did but from what i read from him,he isn't a bad guy.  

I haven't seen this site changed a lot but I'm not really interacting just reading.
Troy you should have a section for people disagreeing with each other to keep the other threads clean   So people whom have no excitement in their lives can watch it unfold just like when people watching accidents  

[NHCharger]

I am another lifetime member ( member # 10) that hasn't been on the board much in the last year. As Troy said, sometimes life gets busy, which has been my excuse for the last year.
I do remember reading part of the thread and exchanges between ECS and Tuffy. I thought both parties egged each other on and I remember thinking I don't have time for this shit and wonder how the Mods deal with this child like behavior.
I do belong to a couple other Mopar boards but over the years have found this site by far the best and consider this site my internet home.

[Shelby S/C]

Life does get busy, so I never get on here but as per usual witty Skip makes me more enthusiastic to post! And it is not even my birthday and Skip isn't hitting on me this time lmao  Anyways I do have to say that I miss Tuffy being on here, he is hilarious for one! And he has been such a dear and kind friend to my mother and I since we've met him. Luckily I'm more facebook oriented and he isn't banned from there (or any other sites for that matter). People should get their facts straight. But anyways Skip all of your questions are on point, I recommend going to the source to get those questions answered, message my mom she has Tuffy's email. Now go ahead and threaten to ban me too Troy 

[skip68]

Thanks future ex-wife.   
Nobody has threatened to ban me or anyone ....yet.    and I don't want anyone to jump on the ban wagon and make this bad.   If I've overstepped my bounds and am asked to leave I will do so peacefully and understand.   I'm acting SOLELY on my own and DO NOT want anyone to defend, agree or respond on my behalf.   

I was just looking for answers is all.  Not a big deal.   
It just turns out that it's a sore subject. 
Skip.   

[Troy]

Let me stress that Tufcat is banned due to his own actions. I suppose it makes a better story if I'm the "bad guy" or that there's some great conspiracy - likely controlled by the Illuminati. Sorry, not nearly that interesting. It has occurred to me that since I'm not publicly posting my (our) side of the story that people are only getting a modified version from "the source". But I'll take the high road (for now) and keep things private. If you have a legitimate question or concern you can always contact me directly. And since very few of you have, I guess you're content with whatever you've heard. Your choice. Some of you have "known" me for close to 13 years now and if you can't trust me yet then I'm not likely to change your minds.

Shelby: I welcome differing points of view. Never have I punished someone just because we disagree. On the contrary, I welcome input from all sources as people who really know me will attest (and I've said it here countless times). However, if you want to have an argument with someone it's a good idea to have all the facts. It's like bench racing with someone who has never driven a car.

Troy

[Charger-Bodie]

Troy is absolutely right on this.

It's a let sleeping dogs lie kind of deal. I personally was friends with Tom . Not like close buddies , but friends. This is. Can of worms .

[el dub]

You eff with the bull you get the horn. 

[Mytur Binsdirti]

More people here should learn to be more like me.   

[skip68]

Troy and moderators, can you please lock and delete this thread for the good of all?    No need for going any further.  Thanks.  
Skip.  

[Old Moparz]

It's going to be a looooong winter. 

[myk]

Interesting idea for a website...^^^^

[XH29N0G]

Is her husband driving the car?  I'm sorry that just seems wrong. 

[myk]

No, she's by herself.  And STRANDED!   

[XH29N0G]

That isn't good.  Once took my girlfriend (now wife) on a walk down into the river valley in Edmonton in March.  Turned out the snow hadn't all melted and she was visiting and in heels and a small dress.  I am lucky she forgave me.