Hope this doesn't get locked. IF STRICT GUN LAWS WORKED.

[skip68]

Hopefully this doesn't create drama so let's stay civil.   
I'm watching the news and all this gun law crap as always and some guy is complaining about the 30,000+ people killed every year by guns.   
So it started me thinking. 
We all know that most of these killings are gang, drugs or whatever criminal activity.  Most the lost lives are not exactly ones that are productive quality citizens.   Most likely counterproductive drains on the system. 
Now, if for some reason something could be done to drastically reduce the gun violence, what's going to really happen?   
Think about it.   Say that 10,000 lives of criminal thugs that normally would be dead every year are NOT.   That means that crime will be greatly growing with more good people suffering.   
Just a crazy thought but I think we would be interfering with natural selection of the average thug.   

[Davtona]

It absolutely amazes me sometimes how people can rationalize things in their mind to support the agenda they want.  

[skip68]

I know, it's kinda out there I guess but it makes one wonder. 
Then again, the thugs will ALWAYS have guns so I guess it really won't change.   

[el dub]

If they didn't have guns they would switch to knives. Like in England. 

[A383Wing]

stricter gun laws and gun control is not gonna work...the thieves, crooks, and terrorists will still be able to get any firearm or weapon just as easily as they can now...like the new laws are gonna turn the terrorists into law abiding citizens

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Archie Bunker had it right all along.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lDb0Dn8OXE

[skip68]

  

[myk]

Archie Bunker had it right all along.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lDb0Dn8OXE

Yes, he did:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GzFWRPiNXOI

[XH29N0G]

  now that brings back memories. 

[b5blue]

  Gang mentality is a real issue. PBS had a show on gangs in prison and even locked up the B.S. the guards deal with is incredible. If you consider all the firearms available in the USA control is impossible. How hard would it be to make a bang stick? Kids in Brooklyn were making them 70 years ago with a pipe. (My friend was telling me about it the other day.)
  The concept is make a bang stick to ambush someone with a gun and take the gun. Now use the gun to get more guns to arm your gang. Historically gangs are nothing new, those who feel disenfranchised or threatened have been forming gangs for thousands of years. (In one form or another.) Heck think about it, the Pilgrims were a gang. They formed and alliance with a gang (Tribe.) of native Americans to protect themselves from other gangs of native Americans. 
  I personally think the answer is care and education of the young regardless of wealth (Somehow?) and care for mentally disabled regardless of age. (Again somehow?) It's not a quick fix with new laws that makes everyone feel like they did something "right away" like is so politically popular now. It's a root cause analysis approach to an ongoing and growing issue.               

[XH29N0G]

We will just wait to see how it plays out.  To me it looks like a pendulum swinging, and I don't know which way. 

The public opinion is being swayed by actions of misled kids, old farts who are nuts, people seeking revenge for societal wrings (like the guy who was just stopped after posting he was going to shoot 16 at UC for the Chicago police case), and jihadists (either organized or just thinking they are doing what is right by their beliefs).  On the other side there is the gun lobby and now some politicians who are increasingly defensive of guns.   
 
All of you are responsible with guns (and my family is too), but I think we are in a situation now that is headed out of our ability to control it.  Maybe it will settle in the near future, but if we end up in an Archie Bunker type shootout on a plane.....I don't know what will happen.

[el dub]

Hide your guns, save your ammo, and kick back a have a beer. Don't let the media make you sweat the small stuff. Which all this is. This crap has been going on for thirty or forty years.  Might do some good to analyze our own government

[RallyeMike]

The statistics should clarify a lot of things, but who needs facts when you have sensationalism.

You are most likely to die by firearm because you wanted to (suicide). Now take away the fact that you are not a criminal or hang out with gang members = ..... the likelihood of law-abiding citizens being murdered by firearm is quite slim compared to all the other things that can take you out.

The statistics don't lie.

[ws23rt]

The statistics should clarify a lot of things, but who needs facts when you have sensationalism.

You are most likely to die by firearm because you wanted to (suicide). Now take away the fact that you are not a criminal or hang out with gang members = ..... the likelihood of law-abiding citizens being murdered by firearm is quite slim compared to all the other things that can take you out.

The statistics don't lie.




When we lose perspective on where we are we can lose control on where we are going.

[skip68]

Kinda what I was thinking.  I don't remember the latest numbers but you're more likely to be killed by a drunk driver or other things than being killed by a gun.   I really wish they'd stop using all the gang and drug criminal related shootings.  Honestly to me those don't count.   

[Troy]

The CDC (usually the most common/trusted source) includes accidents and suicides in the "gun violence" numbers which greatly skew the results. The also include self-defense and include the perpetrator in the "victim" stats if they are shot or killed. (This is because they are health/death related and not necessarily "crime" statistics.) If you also remove criminal-on-criminal shootings the numbers are insanely small. I do not know if there are laws against shooting yourself accidentally - or even intentionally - but I do know the criminals really don't care about the laws. So, what more laws could we come up with to keep that tiny fraction of non-criminals from criminally shooting another human?

Troy

[skip68]

I'd love to see actual real numbers of innocent victims shot. And I mean truly innocent victims.  Surely these anti gun people have to have this information with real numbers.  I bet it's ridiculously low.   I'm more likely to be killed riding my motorcycle than being shot.

[el dub]

There is a certain entity in our society that doesn't want anyone killed. Criminals included. In fact they want to save these criminals and make them upstanding citizens. On your dime of course. They also want gun control.

[ws23rt]

There is a certain entity in our society that doesn't want anyone killed. Criminals included. In fact they want to save these criminals and make them upstanding citizens. On your dime of course. They also want gun control.

On that note--Prisons have become a far better way of life for some than where they came from. A place to regroup for others.

When life gets tough one can go to the hear-after/other side- with the virgins (of perhaps the species of choice) or they can grow up like the rest of us did when we wondered about how to best move forward.

We all clearly know where the basic root of all this is.--Where do we start to learn?---Who teaches us what we need to know that gives us the push from the nest?

[Troy]

I'd love to see actual real numbers of innocent victims shot. And I mean truly innocent victims.  Surely these anti gun people have to have this information with real numbers.  I bet it's ridiculously low.   I'm more likely to be killed riding my motorcycle than being shot.

I can compare totally random ways to die with just about anything. However, tripping on stairs, being bitten by something, or ingesting something that ends up being poisonous lack an important ingredient: intent by another to do you harm. Sometimes riding a motorcycle can be a gray area because drivers are idiots and may very well harm you just by being stupid (but some will actually mean it). "Innocent" victims are hurt/killed by gangs all the time. It's a geographic problem that's not easily solved. People pay attention when an event breaks from the norm.

Troy

[skip68]

That's the biggest problem.  That root is missing.   

[Bobs69]

Skip68, if I read your original post correctly, and I think I did....................... are you suggesting we flood that specify market with guns and let them week themselves out?

[ws23rt]

Skip68, if I read your original post correctly, and I think I did....................... are you suggesting we flood that specify market with guns and let them week themselves out?

I don't chose to speak for skip and won't do so.

What I see from his comment/post is a pragmatic view of a tough world we live in. I do the same thing sometimes as a way to try to understand where I am in my thoughts.
What others see comes from their own view.

The word facetious comes to mind when some of us (me included) express ourselves.  This language we use is not served well from just the text we see on the screen.

I constantly step back myself when putting meaning into a few lines of type. ---And that's (as Edith Ann said well) the truth.

[skip68]

No not at all.   Kinda along the lines of ws23rt.   
I'm hypothetically speaking, basically saying that if we had a miracle cure that kept most guns out of the wrong hands we'd have more bad guys filling the streets and judicial system.   Being that most killings are thugs killing thugs, if the thugs couldn't get as many guns, less thugs will be killed that normally would be killed off.  Thus creating more thugs annually and more crime.    The way it is right now is thug life has its own population control.  Unfortunately for every one that dies or gets locked up, baby mama's spit out 10 more with NO roots.   
This doesn't matter anyways because the thugs will ALWAYS get and have the guns.   
Make sense?   Sorry Bob, guess I'm thinking a bit over the top.   

[Bobs69]

It's ok Skip68, wsr68 is correct.  Our language is complicated and we can't convey our emotions into our text so easy.

I was joking actually.  But really, let the low lifes weed themselves out is fine by me.  Online problem is the rest of us would get hurt in the process.