Hope this doesn't get locked. IF STRICT GUN LAWS WORKED.

[skip68]

I totally agree with you and brass 100% 
That's the problem with the anti gun idiots, they want more.   So I blame them for not taking what they can get long ago and enforcing it.   They ask tooooo much and don't get it so they do nothing.   I'm for anything that makes it harder for bad seeds to get guns as long as I keep mine.   
The blood is on their hands (anti-gun crowd) not the pro gun crowd.   

[Mike DC]

  
But if you are a politician, why work at enforcing a law?  That costs money and isn't rewarding.  

It's so much cheaper, it helps your next campaign more, and it grows the bureaucracy more, to just keep piling on new laws.  Everybody wins. 

[el dub]

 
But if you are a politician, why work at enforcing a law?  That costs money and isn't rewarding.  

It's so much cheaper, it helps your next campaign more, and it grows the bureaucracy more, to just keep piling on new laws.  Everybody wins. 

That's why we have thirty thousand gun laws on the books now.   

[John_Kunkel]

You hear some say after a massacre that it could've been prevented if there were stronger gun laws.   

And the retort should be..."other than total confiscation, what new laws would prevent such massacres?"

As mentioned earlier, the news media has dramatized these incidents to make the firearm the bad guy without giving equal time to statistics like the FBI data from a few years back:

Washington DC -  On January 3, 2013, Breitbart reported on the newest FBI crime statistics then available (2011) showing that more people are killed with hammers and clubs each year than are killed with rifles. [ Yet there are no calls to ban hammers..? ]

With newer crime statistics now out for 2012, we can report that more people are killed each year with fists and hammers than are killed with rifles or shotguns.

According to the FBI, there were a total of 625 murders committed with rifles and shotguns in 2012. That breaks down to 322 murders that were rifle related and 303 that were shotgun related.

The total number of deaths committed with fists, hammers, and other blunt objects was 1,196. That breaks down to 518 murders related to hammers and blunt objects and 678 related to fists.

Taken together, the rate of murder by fists and hammers was nearly 100 percent higher than the rate of murder by rifles or shotguns.

And, yes, the term "rifles" includes the demonized so-called assault rifle.
 

[skip68]

I'm presuming most murders are caused by handguns obviously. And most are inner city thugs. 
It's sad but it's just easier to start crying about gun control to ease victims families pain and make them feel they have something to blame and focus on instead of the real reason.   Sick minds. 

[Mike DC]

                                 

And the retort should be..."other than total confiscation, what new laws would prevent such massacres?"

Millions of Americans would be fine with total confiscation.  Not the majority of us but enough to be a factor in the debate.    

They are ready to hand over this right.  They don't want it.  They don't see the problem with everyone else losing it.    

[skip68]

Hand over the guns, bullets first.    
Some say how can you point guns at your fellow Americans?   
I say how can my fellow Americans think they can take my guns?   
We as a nation are already divided enough.  Don't try and really start a civil war again. 

[el dub]

"She has vowed to use executive action if Congress won't act."   This is who you have to worry about.

[bull]

                                 

And the retort should be..."other than total confiscation, what new laws would prevent such massacres?"

Millions of Americans would be fine with total confiscation.  Not the majority of us but enough to be a factor in the debate.    

They are ready to hand over this right.  They don't want it.  They don't see the problem with everyone else losing it.    

Wouldn't it be cool if they'd focus on solutions that don't seek to gut the 2A? It's as if being antagonistic is the real goal. Instead of the constant, unattainable efforts in overreach why not do more to protect the soft targets since they're so hell-bent on having them? Perhaps look into assigning more school resource officers or security volunteers to high schools. Metal detectors at the entrances and secured entry during school hours. They always talk about common sense gun laws when they should be producing common sense ways to protect people from inevitable future attacks. We've got plenty of laws on the books now that are unenforced, unenforceable and ignored by criminals.

[Mike DC]

            

The anti-gun crowd would just flip all that stuff around & throw it back at us.  



Why are WE only open to solving our home protection problems with guns?  

Why aren't we pushing for more R&D on nonlethals?  
Why aren't we funding mental healthcare, better judicial system, better policing, etc?  

Why aren't we putting all this 2A energy into building a better society with fewer violent crooks, instead of idolizing guns --> feeding the cultural glorification of violence that leads to more gun deaths?  
                       

[skip68]

Because we don't have the resources.     
Because WE have refugees to worry about and other more important things like that.   America first, that's a joke.  The time for change is long overdue.   Then again, Mrs Clinton said the other night " great again? We are great"   
Wow.   Yes, we're doing so well.   Holy fu$@   

[el dub]

Watching Mrs. Clinton huh.

[skip68]

Oh good God NO.  It was a clip on the news. 

[bull]

           

The anti-gun crowd would just flip all that stuff around & throw it back at us.  



Why are WE only open to solving our home protection problems with guns?  

Why aren't we pushing for more R&D on nonlethals?  
Why aren't we funding mental healthcare, better judicial system, better policing, etc?  

Why aren't we putting all this 2A energy into building a better society with fewer violent crooks, instead of idolizing guns --> feeding the cultural glorification of violence that leads to more gun deaths?  
                       

I guess because so much of our time and money now goes into fighting their extremism. And before you hint at they pointing to our supposed extremism, just remember, that's a lie. American culture was so much more immersed in "gun culture" 30-40 years ago that gun culture wasn't even a thing. It just was. You could buy guns out of the Sears catalogue, I (and many people I know) took guns to school, carried them around in broad daylight on our hips, shoulders and in our cars. Many schools had gun safety classes and skeet shooting was part of PE class. You used to see ads with whole families holding guns. No waiting periods, no background checks, no straw-purchase laws, no irrational fear of black plastic or inquiries into black anodized aluminum and pistol grips.

Sure, times have changed but those changes came with changes in some people and how they have used guns, not in the inanimate objects themselves other than a few technological changes. We have surrendered many, many rights since political correctness has taken over and it hasn't helped. Even though gun crimes have dropped substantially the grabbers still aren't happy. Instead of looking at it as a criminal problem they look to blame the NRA, gun manufacturers and law-abiding citizens. Why? Because they can't, or don't want to, control criminals. Today it's all about political correctness and if some hooligan gets high and walks through town waving a pistol around and popping off random rounds people might destroy your city if the cops put him down. Especially if the criminal is black and the cops happen to be white. Instead of just fighting crime now the police departments spend more time worrying about protestors protesting the deaths of criminals, armchair QBs on social media, public relations, dealing with the US Dept. of Justice inquiries and the constant hounding from the mainstream media.

[skip68]

Amen bull.   
The way these protesters are you'd think the death of these criminals was a great loss to the community.  Honestly, it might be cheaper in the long run to just kill these thugs and pay off the families instead of them being locked up for life and in the revolving doors of the judicial system. 
I'm in favor of that.   

[XH29N0G]

I was headed in to work today thinking about some of the points being discussed here. 

I see pushing from the anti gun crowd as you describe, so no argument there. 

But I also see pushing from the gun crowd that could backfire.  Look around to see the pushing it is in the news.  Think about how those it is pushed on may react and think about whether it is worth losing capital on gun arguments to win these little battles. 

 

[ws23rt]

I was headed in to work today thinking about some of the points being discussed here.  

I see pushing from the anti gun crowd as you describe, so no argument there.  

But I also see pushing from the gun crowd that could backfire.  Look around to see the pushing it is in the news.  Think about how those it is pushed on may react and think about whether it is worth losing capital on gun arguments to win these little battles.  

 

I agree     If the back lash in anger and protest against the lib's sobbing goes beyond rational discussion it just becomes a screeching match without resolution.
What I see from the lib side of almost any issue is just uninformed panic and an irrational/ no compromise/done deal way of looking at things. This is just a closed door to progress.

BTW This closed door/end of discussion ---happens on both sides but seems to be a trademark on the left side.

On this point of discussion.----It seems odd that their are few if any lib side anti gun posters here.

There must be some that read these discussions?

[polywideblock]

"On this point of discussion.----It seems odd that their are few if any lib side anti gun posters here. scratchchin

There must be some that read these discussions? shruggy"

go back to page 2 post 39 think he was shouted down and left 

[XH29N0G]

Well....I am actually fairly liberal so we are everywhere    (and worse, I am from a family that used to be republican (GOP convention/Union league type) and really pro gun).  

I am not anti gun, but assault weapons in my area and schools don't excite me and if I had my way, I would not have them.  I also know that the US varies a lot from place to place and it might be fine in someplace and not in some other place.  


Some liberals are more pro gun and some are less.  I think the ones you run into are not the ones I run into.

[el dub]

Well, if you were watching tv last night you probably got an idea of what is to come if certain so and so's are enabled

[bull]

Well....I am actually fairly liberal so we are everywhere    (and worse, I am from a family that used to be republican (GOP convention/Union league type) and really pro gun).  

I am not anti gun, but assault weapons in my area and schools don't excite me and if I had my way, I would not have them.  I also know that the US varies a lot from place to place and it might be fine in someplace and not in some other place.  


Some liberals are more pro gun and some are less.  I think the ones you run into are not the ones I run into.

That's the thing, gun control shouldn't be a liberal cause. If liberals were to stay consistent with liberalism they would treat their ideology on gun control the same way they treat drug control. But being politically correct now seems to require that they eliminate anything that doesn't fit their ideology. They say prohibition doesn't work until they find something they want prohibited, then they not only want it prohibited they want you prosecuted for opposing them. Like the new DOJ's head Loretta Lynch who wants to prosecute you if she doesn't like your narrative regarding Muslims.

Watch some of those fake petition drives that take place on college campuses if you want to be frightened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n02qgqtpRKY

[skip68]

Gun control?   
🔨💣🔫🔪🚀 
Isn't that what pistol grips are for?

[XH29N0G]

There are just a whole lot more types of liberals than the stand and yell type.  Just like there are a whole lot more types of conservatives than that type.  Gun control and liberals probably also depends a lot on where they are from.  If it doesn't appear to pose a threat and is in responsible hands, many liberals I know will say it isn't a problem. 

[Mike DC]

That's the thing, gun control shouldn't be a liberal cause. If liberals were to stay consistent with liberalism they would treat their ideology on gun control the same way they treat drug control. But being politically correct now seems to require that they eliminate anything that doesn't fit their ideology. They say prohibition doesn't work until they find something they want prohibited, then they not only want it prohibited they want you prosecuted for opposing them. Like the new DOJ's head Loretta Lynch who wants to prosecute you if she doesn't like your narrative regarding Muslims.

And if conservatives were to stay consistent, then they wouldn't be virulently opposed to all increases in govt except when it subsidizes fossil fuel usage, or starts random wars, or selectively enforces laws harder on minorities, or prevents states from controlling their own laws with issues like abortion . . . two can play at this game.  Neither side exactly has the market cornered on inconsistency. 

Watch some of those fake petition drives that take place on college campuses if you want to be frightened.

Scary?  Yes.  
But the results in the video are probably cherry-picked.  

It's not hard to find similar scary mashups about conservatives - if that's what you want to find.  

[skip68]

People are people.  It takes all kinds to make the world go around. 
It's just a shame that both sides can't agree rationally. 
One side has to many screaming to take our guns and refusing to see it's a mental health issue so we shut down from wanting to negotiate. 
One side has to many that exaggerates why we need our guns.   
Every time someone mentions gun control or bans the gun sales shoot through the roof.   Actually, it happens right after any major shootings because we all know it's coming.     
Other than better screening and enforcing laws that already exist, I think we're doing fine.