Too much power?

[fizz]

Got my first drive yesterday. Granted, 40 degree pavement and touring tires, but seems like 500 stroker power is gonna be hard to get to hook up. Blows the tires shifting into drive.

[68pplcharger]

That's why these cars are so much fun... 

If set up right you will hook fine at the track 

[cbrestorations]

thats kind of why i dont like big cubic inch engines. hit hard and fast but then level out unless you have massive heads. a bone stock 5.7 hemi with a 76mm turbo will make 650hp to the tire, get 20mpg and easier on the tire, progressive hp. but on the other hand nothing sounds as cool idling as a big inch cammed engine 

[fizz]

Yea, I think my kids 2010 Camaro will wipe me if I cant get the power down

[Ghoste]

Just keep fixing the weak links.  Your first will be traction but once you get it to hook you will soon find the others. 

[68pplcharger]

Just keep fixing the weak links.  Your first will be traction but once you get it to hook you will soon find the others. 

Very true... Weak links will tend to announce themselves very quickly

[XH29N0G]

Have fun and be careful.  Try a different tire compound.  Mine isn't that crazy, but 275 60 TAs wouldn't hold in 1st or 2nd if the pedal hit the floor.  I switched to M/T 255 15 ET street radials that hold.   They don't work in wet.  I saw another offering ET Street SS that I think I will try next.   Others use Nittos and there are others like BFG G force that I think people use.    I found it no fun to have no traction.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

700 hp in the Hellcat feels pretty darned good, but the 485 hp in my old 64 Plymouth was a hairy ride.

[ws23rt]

700 hp in the Hellcat feels pretty darned good, but the 485 hp in my old 64 Plymouth was a hairy ride.

It's the torque that kicks us in the seat.   Our hellcats give over 400 ft. lbs. at 1200 rpm

BTW I had mine (with the HP meter on) making 580 hp. I was looking to feel what 700+ felt like. I was over 160 mph and pulling hard. The freeway got small and I got timid. A place and time is yet to come to feel that 700 hp.--(never been to a drag race track)

[oddis]

air pressure might also be important....., the mt street needs almost no pressure if you´re going to launch     , cal-tracks and right adjusted dampers is the next point... , but most important is to make it go straight...., if it does, there is no more fun than to mark the trail you came from... 

do you have a picture of the car with the issues..... ?  :popcorn:   some action-photos might help us...         

[Kern Dog]

I'm with you there, Fizz....
My car has "Summer Tires" rated to be used in temperatures of 50 degrees and up. Here in CA, I am fortunate to have many days to take advantage even though the car isn't a daily driver.
The wifes 2015 Challenger R/T also has a set of "Summer Tires", hers are Goodyear F1 Supercar. We have yet to drive the car in the rain or in the colder weather. It has dipped into the low 40s the past week so we have used my truck for errands instead. The tire warranty brochure warned that chunking or other types of tread damage can occur if driven in extreme cold temperatures.

[cdr]

yep my 512 blows the tires from a 60mph roll.   

[six-tee-nine]

yep my 512 blows the tires from a 60mph roll.   

Isnt that exactly what we are all looking for? 

[Kern Dog]

yep my 512 blows the tires from a 60mph roll after a snowfall.

A Dodge Omni can spin tires on ice.   

[myk]

Got my first drive yesterday. Granted, 40 degree pavement and touring tires, but seems like 500 stroker power is gonna be hard to get to hook up. Blows the tires shifting into drive.

Mission accomplished...

[maxwellwedge]

Too Much Power.............three words that can never be used in that order.... 

[garner7555]

yep my 512 blows the tires from a 60mph roll.   

That makes me want to build up the 400 I have laying around.     

[birdsandbees]

Too Much Power.............three words that can never be used in that order.... 

So true Jim.. and when you do finally get it to hook up you find yourself going car to car at the drags looking for rear axle clips to get home! Bind der.. done dat!

[c00nhunterjoe]

What tires, springs, shocks are on the car? No reason it should be spinning that bad unless thats what you want it to do. I can put the 11" wide bfg radial ta's back on the car and smoke them in all 4 gears, but thats pointless...

[cdr]

What tires, springs, shocks are on the car? No reason it should be spinning that bad unless thats what you want it to do. I can put the 11" wide bfg radial ta's back on the car and smoke them in all 4 gears, but thats pointless...

if you are asking me??

[c00nhunterjoe]

It was directed at fizz, but your signature picture looks pretty mean, and since you blow your tires off at 60 mph, yeah im curious what you have set up too.

[cdr]

split mono leaf caltrac & their bars, when i get rich , some adjustable shocks & drag radials, the tires on it now are very hard 295-50-15.

[fizz]

Mopar performance springs, Hotchkiss shocks, afco rear sway bar, 391 gears, silver sport A41 auto trans, 3500 stall converter Continental 275-50-18 tires(probably main deficit).
But, I have a long way to go, just first drive and winter is here. I have a lot of tuning to do.
I can do a lot with the transmission tuning
Never experienced that kind of torque before

[c00nhunterjoe]

split mono leaf caltrac & their bars, when i get rich , some adjustable shocks & drag radials, the tires on it now are very hard 295-50-15.

Very nice rear suspension. Get different tires and shocks that promote weight transfer and prepare for some fun. Fwiw, the 69 roadrunner that i post pictures of runs the caltrac springs and bars and on a 9" tire foot brake launching at 2800, it will nearly rip the bumper off, and you have more engine then he does. You also dont need to spen a fortune on shocks. Calvert has their own 90/10s that are not that expensive and a decent 50/50 in the rear are under 100 a peice also. Unless you are doing hardcore racing then you dont need double adjustable drag shocks.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Mopar performance springs, Hotchkiss shocks, afco rear sway bar, 391 gears, silver sport A41 auto trans, 3500 stall converter Continental 275-50-18 tires(probably main deficit).
But, I have a long way to go, just first drive and winter is here. I have a lot of tuning to do.
I can do a lot with the transmission tuning
Never experienced that kind of torque before

Yeah, that entire setup is not designed to dead hook a 2 ton car. That looks more like a drifting setup.

[69hemidaytona]

Too Much Power.............three words that can never be used in that order.... 

Unless you're talking about our president

[Mike DC]

Yeah, that entire setup is not designed to dead hook a 2 ton car. That looks more like a drifting setup.

                           
I agree.  The Hotchkiss setup seems totally oriented at handling.

That's the limitation of doing anything with a 2-ton car.  You can make it do well at dragging or handling, but not both.  



Our cars are too heavy for high performance in general.  Some people make it work but that does not prove it's a sensible idea.  
             

[Kern Dog]

Maybe if your skills are lacking.
The Hellcat outweighs us by 500-700 lbs and doesn't seem to have trouble as a high performance car.  If you spend money in the right places, you can have it all.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Maybe if your skills are lacking.
The Hellcat outweighs us by 500-700 lbs and doesn't seem to have trouble as a high performance car.  If you spend money in the right places, you can have it all.

Apples to oranges comparison for one, but that aside, it has 707 hp and only runs 11s in the 1/4. Electronic stability control, 8 speed trans, supercharged, how do you even start to compare that to a 60s car?

[Kern Dog]

Hey, if YOU are unable to get your car to handle well, stop well and turn a decent ET, that is sad. The potential is there. You just need to learn how to unlock it.

[Mike DC]

  
If we asked a group of physicists & engineers how to reduce a vehicle's G-forces in every direction, as effectively as possible . . . their answer would be "add curb weight"  We could hardly invent a better way to do it if we tried.


We find ways around it, yeah.  But that doesn't mean it's not posing a problem.  

[Kern Dog]

Don't misunderstand... I DO get it. A stripped out car will perform better than a loaded down luxury car.
It just smacks of ignorance when I hear someone say that old cars can't compete with new cars in terms of performance. Sure, the new cars are much quieter and have fewer rattles and such. The classics can be modified to perform. Mine does.

[1974dodgecharger]

Don't misunderstand... I DO get it. A stripped out car will perform better than a loaded down luxury car.
It just smacks of ignorance when I hear someone say that old cars can't compete with new cars in terms of performance. Sure, the new cars are much quieter and have fewer rattles and such. The classics can be modified to perform. Mine does.

Aerodynamics hold us old cars down....HENCE muscle car era they put the biggest engine they could in a brick didn't care for Aero at all hence all the beauty old classics have over modern day cars.  You can put my, 'junk' next to a, 'hellcat' anything and people will say my junk looks better.  Does not mean my car will out perform the hellcat in say a, 'G' rating, but 1/4 mile I can catch up with some better stickys, supercharger, etc...

[Ghoste]

Yeah, yeah our big old fat heavy obsolete antique dinosaur cars can't handle like they are on rails, stop on a dime with change, get 30 mpg, have built in wifi and backup cameras and gps and microwave ovens and self park features and the ability to change color and all of the other things that 50 years of advancing technology has given the modern automobile.
On the other hand though I can't recall ever seeing too many modern cars getting iconic movie roles that hold the car up as an essential "character" in the film, being reproduced in a dizzying array of variety as miniatures, getting thumbs up everywhere they are driven, and retaining the sort of across the age group interest and devotion my obsolete antique seems to have.  (especially when the manufacturer driven forums and meets are taken out of the picture)

[skip68]

Far as I know these cars were never considered as sports cars.   
More of a sports sedan if I remember correctly.   Yes, any car can be modified to run with newer cars and such but now it's no longer an old car.   It's been modified.   Although I think with only frame connectors and suspension work along with the right tires Will give you a car that's competitive with today's equivalent type of car.   I think that's what Kern dog is saying.   In fact, our cars have an additional advantage off the bat.  They weigh about 1,000lbs less than the newer chargers and challengers I believe.   So the more I think about it the more I can see an old charger or challenger being equals performance wise without having to be overly modified.   
Of course you won't have traction control and anti lock breaking but far as cornering goes I bet it'd hold up.   
Need some road course guys to chime in on that.   

[Mike DC]

                  
A muscle-era Mopar A-body weighs like a Corvette or a 1990s Honda.  Whereas a Hellcat Charger/Chally weighs like a classic C-body land yacht.  



I'm not dissing old cars for being heavy.  

I'm saying heavy cars are a dumb way to be sporty, whatever the era it was made.

[myk]

Yeah, I know that the "smart" choice would be an A body or hell I'll say it, a similar era Mustang, Camaro, whatever; or maybe even a newer muscle car like my '99 T/A that, bone stock, would run circles around the Charger, but I can't help it.  The idea of changing my B body from land yacht to land shark is too attractive, and I know I wouldn't feel right in another type of car.  Furthermore, although I'll probably never make it to this level, I still always use this story for my inspiration:

http://www.powerperformancenews.com/features/1968-dodge-charger-the-road-less-traveled/

[68pplcharger]

                 
A muscle-era Mopar A-body weighs like a Corvette or a 1990s Honda.  Whereas a Hellcat Charger/Chally weighs like a classic C-body land yacht.  



I'm not dissing old cars for being heavy.  

I'm saying heavy cars are a dumb way to be sporty, whatever the era it was made.

Depends on what you want. I like the look of the 68 Charger therefore I made it handle the way I wanted it to handle. The performance difference between this car and a smaller sports car isn't enough to worry about IMO. I want something that handles well on my back roads and an occasional track appearance for some all out fun. If you can do the speed limit, and stay in your lane, on country roads in Kentucky you car is pretty damn good at handling. I'm not putting it in an open class racing class so who cares. The cost is about the same as well when you figure in the higher initial cost of the sports car and all the specialty parts are about the same after that.

[Mike DC]

              
I love good-handling Chargers too.  I'm just saying it's still inherently not a very smart way to go fast.  In the Charger's case there is so much else to like about it that we tend to overlook the drawbacks.  

I just think the American sporty/fun car world is very good at forgetting that weight matters.  People gush over Hellcats because they have 707 hp.  But does 500 hp in a 3000-lb car get that kind of headlines?  It's the same power-to-weight ratio, and it would be much more fun. 

[68pplcharger]

Agreed, I've thought about just building a cobra kit car or Shelby Daytona and have the ultimate street car with only 500 hp and a mere 2200 lbs. You can build these for less money than the Charger I just put together. I'm just partial to the old muscle car styling... 

[myk]

Wouldn't mind a Cobra kit car though...

[c00nhunterjoe]

All im saying is, you cant put 20" wheels with a 40 series tire on and expect it to hang the front wheels...... i dont care if its a 70 challenger or a 2015 hellcat.

[Mike DC]

                
True.  Enough tire makes almost anything perform better.  And modern tires are getting bigger & stickier all the time.



As for Cobras/Daytonas, there are so many used ones out there for sale that I would never wanna buy/build a new one.  A fiberglass one would suit me fine.  Cobras are crude & uncomfy cars at best.  

But whatever it is, I would insist on having an independent rearend (most Cobra kits aren't).  Personal preference.  The unsprung weight problems of a solid axle become magnified as the body gets lighter.

[68pplcharger]

               
True.  Enough tire makes almost anything perform better.  And modern tires are getting bigger & stickier all the time.



As for Cobras/Daytonas, there are so many used ones out there for sale that I would never wanna buy/build a new one.  A fiberglass one would suit me fine.  Cobras are crude & uncomfy cars at best.  

But whatever it is, I would insist on having an independent rearend (most Cobra kits aren't).  Personal preference.  The unsprung weight problems of a solid axle become magnified as the body gets lighter.

Agreed

[Kern Dog]

If I were to purposely pick a car to race on a road course, I'd go with something smaller or more modern if I wanted to be competitive. I understand the laws of physics as well as any high school graduate from the 80s.
My point is that I friggin LOVE the looks and power of these cars. I've taken what I know along with the advice of others to make my 45 year old car handle as good or better than our 2015 Challenger R/T with the Super Track Pack package. Clearly, I didn't have to sacrifice good handling just to drive a classic car.
Take a look at the Hotchkis 70 Challenger. It has essentially the same platform as our cars. That car is amazing. There are others: Kevin Westley's 70 Satellite 4 door is internet famous and has been used by The Tire Rack as a test vehicle for high performance tires.

[Brass]

There are others: Kevin Westley's 70 Satellite 4 door is internet famous and has been used by The Tire Rack as a test vehicle for high performance tires.

Tire Rack's driver even said that car is faster than the BMW's they typically use.