Engine Builders...is the stroker a viable option for me?

[volk68]

I find myself in a situation now where I would like more power out of my 440.  I have been contemplating just about every possible scenario for making power, but there are so many options that I have just wound up confusing the issue more.  Here is my scenario:

I live at 8,000' in the Colorado rockies.  I currently run a 440 with an Edelbrock 650 cfm carb.  It is essentially stock, except someone has put a slightly larger cam in it.  I have no idea the current cams specs.  I am running through a 727 Torqueflight to a 3:23 sure-grip 8.75 rear end.  I am running 275-60-r15's for rear rubber.  There are some kind of off-brand headers running into a very nice 3" H-pipe exhaust, and I have upgraded to a Mopar Performance orange box ignition.  While this combination actually pulls quite well and runs strong, it just doesn't produce the tire-smoking raw power I want at this altitude.

Now, I have done extensive investigation on forced induction, and while I really like the premise, pretty much every option olut there is serious cash with extensive amounts of tuning or fabrication to make it really work well.  I can get into a roots type blower fairly inexpensively through a local shop that does amazing work at really reasonable prices, but that setup is so inefficient, and I really don't want to cut my hood.

This leads me to the stroker route.  I visited the 440 Source page, and their kits are very reasonably priced and look quite appealing to me.  Is it possible to get a good 500-600hp at this kind of altitude on a stroker combination and still run pump gas?  I also want a setup that will be reliable and nicely streetable...not something that needs to be tuned all the time or torn down and rebuilt every 25k miles.  I have access to a 400 or my 440 for a potential stroker build.  I won't daily drive this, but it will be driven a fair amount.  This is not a trailer queen. 

If you were building this for yourself, would you build the 440 or 400?  Would you even build a stroker at all?  Should I just cut my hood and mount a roots blower on her and be done with it?   

[Blown70]

but that setup is so inefficient, and I really don't want to cut my hood.

Please expalin to me what you mean inefficient?  I will disagree fully and completely with this statement.

Second.  Want a cheap solution,  Change the gear to 3:91 or 4:10.

Also, I have only heard good things about strokers.  Everyone I have spoken to loves them.

Tom

[firefighter3931]

The stock Manifold (dual plane) and 650cfm carb are choking that engine. An upgrade to a Street Dominator or Performer RPM and a 750-800 cfm carb would really wake hat motor up. Strokers make big torque with a good set of heads and you don't need to go wild with the build. A well built 440 with a set of E-heads will make 500hp easy and still be quite streetable. Just depends what you're looking for and where you want the power to come in. Moparhound has a nice street stroker build that is probably what you're looking for....low maintenance, hydraulic cam and pump gas. 

Ron


Ps. I agree with Tom....throw some gear into it and watch the car come alive. 

[firefighter3931]

but that setup is so inefficient, and I really don't want to cut my hood.

Please expalin to me what you mean inefficient?  I will disagree fully and completely with this statement.

Uh Oh ! 

Yep, them huffers are nothin but heat generating wastes of horsepower....no way i'd ever run one 


Ron

[volk68]

The stock Manifold (dual plane) and 650cfm carb are choking that engine. An upgrade to a Street Dominator or Performer RPM and a 750-800 cfm carb would really wake hat motor up. Strokers make big torque with a good set of heads and you don't need to go wild with the build. A well built 440 with a set of E-heads will make 500hp easy and still be quite streetable. Just depends what you're looking for and where you want the power to come in. Moparhound has a nice street stroker build that is probably what you're looking for....low maintenance, hydraulic cam and pump gas. 

Ron


Ps. I agree with Tom....throw some gear into it and watch the car come alive. 

The 650 cfm carb is the most widely used at my altitude...would going larger and re-jetting really make a significant difference?  Everything starves far more for air at 8,000' than they do for fuel.  I guess I'm still not quite sure about the carb/intake setup for airflow yet...I'm still kind of learning.  Would the intake be the best initial investment? 

As to the gear issue, I would love lower gears to really blast around in town, but I live way out in the sticks.  It is a 35 mile drive each way to work and the town I usually futz around in.  If I could swing a Gear Vendors unit I would go bigger gears in a heartbeat.  I just don't want to wrap 3k for 60 miles a trip 

So many ideas...so little cash

[volk68]

but that setup is so inefficient, and I really don't want to cut my hood.

Please expalin to me what you mean inefficient?  I will disagree fully and completely with this statement.

Uh Oh ! 

Yep, them huffers are nothin but heat generating wastes of horsepower....no way i'd ever run one 


Ron

I think my comment there might have gotten blown out of proportion a little.  In the research I have done, roots systems grant the least amount of volumetric efficiency compared against turbocharging and screw type blowers.  I am not putting them down at all...in fact, I love them.  I don't want to cut my hood, though, and that is where my largest aversion to roots blowers comes from.

[firefighter3931]

Volk, 440's like air and lots of it. Even a stock 440 wants a 750cfm carb, especially with a dual plane manifold which isolates one side of the carb to one side of the engine. Single planes allow the engine to share the entire carb due to the open plenum design. 

On the forced induction issue ; i'm like you and prefer the sleeper look but nothing is more in your face than a big roots huffer hangin out of the hood. Turbo, schmurbo.....give me the blower      

Ron

[is_it_EVER_done?]

By far the best bang for the buck is going to be a centrifugal supercharger. You will never get turbos to work without adding an electronic fuel injection/engine management system, and at your altitude, I would think a roots type supercharger would have to be overdriven to the point that it would generate far more heat than you could deal with, and though a stroker will add considerably more torque than you have now, you will never get it to the 500 HP range and have it still be streetable due to the fact that you live in outer space.

A centrifugal supercharger can be added to your stock engine, utilize an air to air intercooler for boost temperature management, fit under your stock hood, requires minimal maintenance, and is easily adjusted should you ever decide to visit Earth, and us "air breathing" inhabitants sometime in the future. (I've driven over I-70 across Colorado, and can assure everyone that hasn't that there is no atmosphere, oxygen, or warmth as any of us know them, and even gravity ceases to exist at the summit)

[GreenMachine]

  I took my Charger to the Rockies a couple of years ago to about 9,000 ft. The performance loss was quite noticable. Of course I could still fly by most people up the steep grades. I would think the best way to improve power without spending a fortune would be to increase the compression ratio. You can have a higher ratio where you live vs. sea level because your engine isn't sucking as much air. Of course I did notice that your Premium Unleaded is 89 octane. On the other hand if you ever bring the car down to lower elevation then you would have problems.
   A centrifugal supercharger would be the best way to go, but I think the kits run about $4,000. They have been doing that with aircraft since the 1930's to compensate for lack of air.

[volk68]

The kit I recently had priced was about $6,500   I just can't swing that much at this point...and probably not for quite a while into the future

[is_it_EVER_done?]

I feel/sympathize with you on the price of performance parts, but for your environment, you can't come across a better bargain than an intercooled centrifugal supercharger system for the amount of power increase while maintaining drivability, fuel efficiency, ease of installation/maintenance, satisfaction, and nearly ZERO additional stress on the drivetrain (compared to whatever the sea level power increase would be). These type units were invented for high altitude operations (WWII aircraft), and is as close to a perfect solution as is possible to achieve given your environment.

You can spend a few hundred here and there for a few small increases through "normal" modifications, but it won't be what your looking for, and could end up costing you as much as the price of the centrifugal over time. Plus it can render your car useless at "human" altitudes. As for building a stroker, it will cost you more than the price of a centrifugal, without achieving the same power increase.

My opinion is to save your money for a centrifugal. You will be much better off in the long run than trying to achieve "atmospheric" performance, using "atmospheric" techniques, while living in outer space.