IS IT TO LATE TO STOP THE WORLD CANCER (MIDDLE EAST TERRORISTS)?????????

[polywideblock]

I know.  We've got plenty homeless families in our own country.  Not trying to sound cruel but we have plenty already that need help like our veterans. 

we have people saying the same thing ,and the veterans are from the "ME" conflict 

                               they've started using the phrase "charity starts at home "

[beedees]

Seeing as how this thread is still going, I'll throw my thoughts in here. ANY "religion" that espouses the idea that it's perfectly O.K. to slaughter ANYONE that does not believe the same way they do, has NO place here. AFAIC, any and all Muslims fit into this cat., and come here at their own risk.  They are not welcome, and never will be. I've said before, and will say it again-ALL religions are a pack of fairy-tales, invented by people as an attempt to make sense of the world around them . "Gods will"-my ass. Just an excuse.

[skip68]

Easy.    

[hemigeno]

I've said before, and will say it again-ALL religions are a pack of fairy-tales, invented by people as an attempt to make sense of the world around them . "Gods will-my ass. Just an excuse.

This comment is over the line.

The reason Troy doesn't want religion and political discussion is because it divides and polarizes.  This topic technically already has its toes hanging over that line because of its connection to Islam, and perhaps it was a mistake to let that go too.  I ignored the first couple of comments bashing ALL religion, but this is where that tangent stops.  Everyone has an opinion.  We don't all have to be in lock-step agreement; but to denigrate others' beliefs in a personal fashion along with their opinions is to say that yours is the only opinion that matters or is true.

If you'd like to share your opinions on politics or religion with me or other folks in private, that's fine.  I have an opinion too.  We can discuss/debate, and/or agree to disagree however you'd like.  Keep it off the board.

[skip68]

I didn't start this thread to get into religion and have pulled myself back once I started crossing that line yesterday.    This and all these terrorists are doing it unfortunately under the name of religion so it can be a difficult subject. 
But, there is an easy way to discuss it.  We (myself included) just have to try to understand that they are misguided idiots that are using and misinterpreting their religion to kill 
I think other than a few post we're doing ok in this thread.     

[Mytur Binsdirti]

I think other than a few post we're doing ok in this thread.     

Of course, mine are some of the best. 

[skip68]

Well, duh.   Of course dirty T.   

[ws23rt]

It was inevitable that religion would end up in this discussion. It comes from our questions about how and why we have this (latest) situation with terrorism.

Let's say (for the sake of this topic and thread) we all have hashed out the religious aspect as being involved. And let's say further that we all have come to a collective understanding about the root cause.--  --I know .---For the sake of discussion religion is off the table.---

So What I see as current and urgent for many is defense and self preservation from a very real, very deadly, and difficult to identify threat.

The numbers of those killed is small when put in perspective.  But to use that as being helpful is just another way for some to cop out and duck the issue because it has perhaps not affected a loved one or acquaintance. The affect that this terrorism has is working.

Now left with ---what can we (or should we?) do for our personal and global defense (aside changing religious beliefs of millions)?

War is not complicated.---(the start of war is).  Identify the threat and kill it.---This is simple stuff but politics is the next issue that will bog down a conclusion.

IMO If this discussion were to follow the only direction it can go we would be into politics in a big way.

Is it too late to stop the world cancer??----It is not!!

Their are many forms of cancer in our world and some of them are political.---- --- --oops did I say that.

We may be able to keep this topic alive but I personally think it will be tough without dipping deep into politics.

Is this a conundrum?---Perhaps a good test of staying on topic without upsetting the parameters?

[JB400]

Looks like another group attacked a Hotel in Mali.   It seems they were making people read the Quran to see if they were Muslim or not.  Muslims were let go.   All of this according to 5:30 news

[ws23rt]

Looks like another group attacked a Hotel in Mali.   It seems they were making people read the Quran to see if they were Muslim or not.  Muslims were let go.  All of this according to 5:30 news

I find it hard to believe that the "extremist" "Muslim" killers are doing anything other then to provoke the non Muslim world into a Battle. They watch the news as we all do. To assume the extremists are feeble minded as well as misguided would be a mistake. A sharp mind does not insure it to be a rational one.

Are we (the non muslims) being baited??---Are the muslims as a group being used as bait??---Who are the foolish here???---Who will win this battle??--

A better question might be who will survive this battle to fight the next one?

[HPP]

According to the US State Dept, estimates of radical jihadists around the world is around 184,000. Actually not a large number. Compared to the 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world (it is the second largest religion in the world), that is only .0115%. That problem I see is that while this is not an open attack on a religious sect, there are deep and significant divides within that religion on how to approach the radicals and this is what gives the impression of lack of support.

You have to go way back, but at one time Islam had a large established Caliphate, or organized political church state, much like Catholicism. At the head of this organization was the Caliph, who was equal in power to the Pope. This entity last existed within the Ottoman Empire. As the Ottoman's reach and power declined and combined with the larger geo-politics that dominated eastern Europe and Turkey from around 1890-1914, eventually WW1 began, the Ottomans were defeated, and the Caliph eliminated.

So why does this matter? Because it creates the perceived inaction of Islamic moderates now. Many Muslims want to have their Caliphate back and want to be on par with Christianity. The radicals are trying to do just this. They have proclaimed a Caliphate in the area of northern Iraq and eastern Syria and are working to eliminate historical borders created by westerners after the Ottomans lost in WW1. Moderate Muslims, while they may disagree with the actions of getting their religious-political entity back, ultimately want the same goal, so they are reluctant to dismiss the end goal at risk of discounting their religions standing and are willing to let those radicals do this to achieve that goal.

To Westerners, this seems outragous because we have spent the last 3 centuries trying to separate politics from religion. To a fundamentalist Muslim, they are one and the same and in their eyes, we have lost our moral compass by discounting our God to put our allegiance into political entities instead.

[skip68]

Thanks.  That makes sense.   I'm starting to see Muslims on t.v. saying that they definitely understand our concern.  Actually, they say they are concerned as well for their own safety against terrorists.   Muslims are being called upon to step up and that's great.  They need to.   We (Americans and American Muslims) need to work together.   
      We will defeat the majority of these crazy groups but I think there will always be random radicals bombing for years to come. 
Small unorganized splinters around the world will exist and make small strikes and that's to be expected.   
The thing I've been thinking about lately is all these lone wolves.  These recruits from around the world that are not born Muslims.   They are outsiders that don't fit in and this gives them a place that they do.   So think about it.   For someone like Isis it might seem like a smart move to build up your army but is it really?    NO.   It's actually a stupid move in my opinion.   These radical recruits main reason for joining Isis isn't because they have a dying love for Allah.   They're joining because they feel excepted and are brainwashed.  How long before your army becomes diluted with losers that aren't so willing to die for Allah.   

I don't know, I guess it's just something that us normal civilized people can't understand.   I do know that we need to create a safe zone for the refugees.   

[XH29N0G]

I don't follow this as closely as I should, but yesterday just learned about Captagon pills which are an addictive amphetamine-related drug that the soldiers use to get a euphoria and avoid fearing death  etc....   This paints a different picture of the extreme soldiers... partly fueled by belief (or desire to be a mercenary), and also chemically primed.   

[skip68]

Interesting.   

[JB400]

Seeing as how this thread is still going, I'll throw my thoughts in here. ANY "religion" that espouses the idea that it's perfectly O.K. to slaughter ANYONE that does not believe the same way they do, has NO place here. AFAIC, any and all Muslims fit into this cat., and come here at their own risk.  They are not welcome, and never will be. I've said before, and will say it again-ALL religions are a pack of fairy-tales, invented by people as an attempt to make sense of the world around them . "Gods will"-my ass. Just an excuse.

I've thought about this a little bit, and all I can say is, you have a sad life and don't understand the purpose of religion or other "fairy tales."  Religion is not there to make sense of the world, but is there to give people a sense of hope in a world where there is no hope.  Without hope, people will concentrate more on how bad things currently are, instead of how great things can be.  Hope gives people inspiration to get motivated to try to make their part of the world great.

   This forum goes about the same principle.  Some of us having rusting hulk of steel in their garage or yard with dreams of being able to cruise around in one of the greatest vehicles ever created.  Others have just a dream.  It is those that fulfilled that dream that provide inspiration for those have yet to do so.

  As I said before, it's sad that you feel this way.  I take it that you didn't get that red bicycle you saw in the department store window (or something along this line) for Christmas one year.  For me personally, I was told that I'd never get what I desire most.  But, even if it's true, I'm not going to give up hope and stop trying for it.

[XH29N0G]

I was listening to the radio today and someone said that the issue with the refugees was complex, but for him it boiled down to American values about freedom and that sometimes you have to take risks for your principles.  It hit a chord for me and I think it is about values.  Yes I think the people in the ME and the terrorists both need to be stopped, and I am afraid, but I think it was the type of thing I might have heard my grandfather say.  He was a first generation American.

[Bobs69]

Do we really want to get to know each other this well?  This is a heated topic.

We are mere mortals and can't change the way our leaders do things.

Yes life is tuff and people need something to believe in.

These radicals scare the hell out of me too, but I'm a 40 year old white guy.  There is no way in hell I'd publically express my concerns.  And there lies the problem.  Too many middle aged caucasions that do care, just not enough to do something about what's going on around them.  In my case it's because I know I'm not fully educated on the situation, and I know that being a white guy I'd be crucified for not being politically correct.  And quite frankly I have my own problems I need to work on.

[skip68]

Fully understandable Bob.   I personally don't care about being politically correct.  I think political correctness is garbage.   

Staying on topic, I've been thinking about some of these suicide freaks and what was said earlier by XH29.   He mentioned possible drugs to pump up the bombers.   I think that's very possible.  Because how many people realistically can you find that are willing to blow themselves up?   I mean seriously.   I can see the die hard Muslim fanatic that really believes it's Allah's will.  BUT, a French, American or any other that's NOT a hard core Muslim is really asking a lot.   
I'd imagine or at least hope that the supply of volunteers for vaporization would start running thin.      

[polywideblock]

I guess this is where I'm supposed to have a dummy spit about deleted posts    

                                   we have a  saying "water off a ducks back " 

                funny how the Christian post was left while others were deleted   

[skip68]

I deleted my post.   It was a bunch of quotes from the Muslim bible.  Since the thread started going south deep into religion I felt it best to delete them.  I know we're not supposed to be doing that (religious quotes) but got caught up in the moment.   No biggie.   Drache should delete his also.        
We're ok as long as we keep civil and don't go deep into religion.      

[hemigeno]

                funny how the Christian post was left while others were deleted   

No, just the two posts that referred to other members as know-it-all's and/or sheeple.

But hey, thanks for the extra swipe.  It makes all the effort around here worthwhile.   
                                                                     

[Bobs69]

Personally SKIP68 I'd love to make all sorts of comments, rant and curse about things.  I think we are going to politically and correctly hurt ourselves.

[skip68]

   Do you mean here on the forum or the bigger picture?   I think I almost agree with you either way.     

[JB400]

Sorry for provoking a negative response.  I'll go back to my corner

[Bobs69]

On the forum at least.  Or anywhere anytime in general.  But I'm sure I know what would happen.

It just seems to me, that the common man does care.  But we don't have the time or the resources to fight.  This can be said for other issues as well.

I'd also wager that most people will complain, but want other to do the fighting for them.