no spark on new plugs

[tucknroll]

I'm having trouble. My 69 383 2 barrel  charger is running like crap. I pulled each wire off the distributor  one at a time to see if the engine  changes and 4 of them are not doing anything. New plugs, same thing. I guess I'm running  on 4 plugs. Timing seems good and tried new points and nothing changes. The wires at the bulkhead  connector are not great looking. Could new terminals help? Also would going to electronic  ignition  maybe help? Thanks

[XH29N0G]

First, I noticed a significant difference going to an electronic MSD system from points in terms of how fast it started.  I believe the other electronic systems may be similar.  That may be worth considering. 

That said, I used points up until about 5 years ago and they worked well.  I assume with the points you are able to check dwell in addition to gap and that you have a good condenser, rotor, distributor and plug wires.  Someone else will be able to help diagnose more precisely.  My understanding is that as long as you have the right voltage to the coil that the distributor assembly will do the rest, but I may be wrong.

[tucknroll]

I had a guy that knows his stuff do the points and all that so I guess their good. Could corroded  wires be the cause?

[myk]

What is the condition of the cap, plug wires?  I don't think corroded bulkhead wiring would cause running issues; either your car would run or it wouldn't altogether...

[tucknroll]

Both new.

[XH29N0G]

In addition to checking the idle quality by pulling wires to the plugs, have you checked for spark to each of the plugs? 

If the wires, cap, points etc... are new, and presumably good and set right, then I would assume they are OK, but checking for spark at the plugs either by putting a spare plug into the end of the wires, grounding it, and seeing if it sparks, or by putting a phillips into it and seeing if the spark will jump from that to the block will tell you whether or not you have spark to each of the plugs. 

 

[tucknroll]

I will try that tomorrow. Thanks. But wouldn't electronic  ignition  do away with points and timing issues? That might help right?

[XH29N0G]

electronic ignition would still need to set timing.  You would also need to set the advance curve, but people here can advise/help with that.  

The electronic ignition would do away with points, and I believe give a better spark.  

I just think you want to confirm that the rough idle is due to not firing.    You should be able to smooth it with a points ignition too.

[myk]

The points system should work no matter what.  Upgrading to electronic is an entirely different matter.  If you want to upgrade to electronic, look into the Firecore ignition products sold by Ron on this site.  One of the best upgrades I've ever done to the car...

[firefighter3931]

Try running a resistance test on your ignition wires using an ohm meter. If you're seeing more than 250 ohm/ft of resistance the wires are suspect. 

What plugs are you using ?  I like the NGK XR5's in mild street type builds 

Is this something new ? Did it start running poorly after the new parts installation ?


Ron

[tucknroll]

It's been an ongoing  problem.

[John_Kunkel]

I'm with firefighter, check/replace the plug wires.

[tucknroll]

One thing I noticed  today  is that both wires to the coil are pretty crusty and look like they wouldn't have the best connection. I'm going to fix that tomorrow.

[tucknroll]

Also, would a coil with a bad connection either  work or not work? Any in between?

[XH29N0G]

I would think if it had enough connection to fire for some, it would fire for all, but checking/replacing worn connections may help and could prevent problems in the longer run. 

[myk]

Erase any doubt, and replace any suspect wiring.  You said you have new plug wires but the coil wire is old?  Did you not get a new coil wire with the set?

[tucknroll]

It's the 2 wires coming of the side. Not the one going into the distributor.

[Dino]

There could be increased resistance on those wires so you don't get the needed voltage.  Replace the whole wire if you can.

[tucknroll]

Ok. I changed to electronic ignition new distributor and all and now I need the best plugs I can get. 383 2 barrel 69 charger. Could y'all let me know exactly what to ask for. Not just the brand. Thanks

[XH29N0G]

I would start with what Ron (Firefighter) suggested (above NGK XR5 - on the NGK site they suggest a slightly hotter plug XR4 but I would go with Ron's suggestion).  NGK makes a good plug. I would think you could check with the plus you had last in there as you said they were new.  What were those plugs?

[Dino]

I run the XR5's in my 440.  No complaints.

[tucknroll]

I'll  have to check. How much should gap them? I've  never gaped  plugs before. I always just put them in as is. Do I need to go through  their website  or can auto zone get them? THANKS

[XH29N0G]

See what others say.  The gap could be the same with the electronic ignition or different.  I know with some it changes.  I do not know if putting the details of the electronic ignition would help others advise.  With an MSD, I believe mine are at 0.040, it looks like the NGK come at 0.039.  I thought the original was something like .035, but the electronic ignitions are supposed to have a stronger spark so can use a larger gap.

[tucknroll]

My old plugs are champion  rj12yc. Will the others be at auto zone?

[XH29N0G]

I looked for them online (I think NGK pn 3332) and it looks like they are available online at autozone and advance, but not in stock near me).  You could check locally for you.  Alternatively you can order from one of the online autoparts suppliers like Jegs or Summit. 

[tucknroll]

Another question. The fuel filter was right by the distributor  and my dad rerouted it to get it out of the way. Now the new hose is way longer and it's in a totally  different  spot and position. I didn't  say anything out of respect  but it feels different  when I take off. Maybe  it's in my head. Should I put it back the way it was?

[XH29N0G]

I do not think the swapping hoses to relocate the fuel filter should have an impact on the fuel delivery.  Someone else may have a different idea about this.

[tucknroll]

Ok I have a new problem. The car runs great down the road. Alt gauge is fine but when I stop, it wants to go in the negative for just  a second but the real problem is in reverse while braking it really wants to stall. I have to pump the gas and brake to keep it going backing out of my driveway. Any ideas?

[XH29N0G]

Ok I have a new problem. The car runs great down the road. Alt gauge is fine but when I stop, it wants to go in the negative for just  a second but the real problem is in reverse while braking it really wants to stall. I have to pump the gas and brake to keep it going backing out of my driveway. Any ideas?

I don't have power brakes, but I wonder if that might affect vacuum and therefore the idle.  I bet someone on here will know

[tucknroll]

I have power brakes. I might disconnect the back up lights and see if the does anything. I still hate that
Something is wrong.

[skip68]

XR5's is what I found to be best.         I ran MSD and opened the gap to 45-50.   

[tucknroll]

Just wandering if I should step up to 90 amp alternator. 55 amp is what's in it now.  Does fine till heat and lights are on. 90 wouldn't hurt nothing would it?

[Dino]

To run a 90 amp alternator you'd have to do some modifications to the original wiring.  You'd have to run a 6 guage wire from alt to starter relay and it would be best to remove the stock fusible link and run a fused 8 gauge wire from the starter relay through the firewall to the stock power splice.  I run a 50 amp maxi fuse to power the interior and an 80 amp ANL fuse for the chargin system.  I also have a 90 amp alternator.  You can then also remove the black and red wires going to the ammeter.

Don't run this amp with stock wiring please.

[tucknroll]

Thanks. What's the strongest alt I could run with stock wiring just in case I go that route?

[Dino]

Hard to say.  Assuming your wiring is in good shape and all connections are tight, I wouldn't go much past 60 amps.

[tucknroll]

Ive read where people bypass the alternator gauge by connecting the two wires on the back of it and covering them with electrical tape. Why do people not like that gauge and what would it help to bypass it?

[Ghoste]

Because for an ammeter the entire current your alternator puts out is passing through it.  Not a big deal by itself but the bulkhead connector used on the firewall of our old Mopars was never meant to last 45 years and what this means is that the connections at the firewall are subject to corrosion.  The corrosion brings heat, lots of it and the hotter it gets, the more it denigrates the electrical system as a whole.  Add in the fact that many drivers today want to add a lot of high amperage drawing loads to their old car and sometimes a higher output alternator to the system to compensate for the added load and you have a great recipe for an electrical fire.

[tucknroll]

So would y'all suggest me doing that?

[Ghoste]

Do you have the old wiring and high loads?  Have you been through your wiring harnesses to clean the connections, especially that bulkhead one?  If it's maintained and sees stock loads then you are probably fine but if the harness is hacked corroded or if you have a high output alternator or a bunch of electrical add ons that weren't even around back in the day then you should.

[skip68]

Personally I like a volt meter.  Those amp meters have been known to burn up a car.  And I mean burn as in fire.  Disconnect the battery before you mess with it.  

[tucknroll]

So just to be sure, disconnect the battery, pull out the dash enough, take the two connections off the back of the alternator gauge, bolt them together, wrap with electrical tape, put the dash back and I'm good to go? Sorry to go on and on but I'm still learning. Thanks.

[skip68]

Yep.  Make sure it's tight and taped well.  I used liquid tape.   

[tucknroll]

I'm gonna do it tomorrow but was wandering, couldn't I even skip going through the firewall? I think the heavy wire coming from the alt is one side of what's now hooked up to the gauge but what is the other?

[Ghoste]

Bolting them together behind the gauge doesn't eliminate the problem spot at the bulkhead.

[tucknroll]

Well I bypassed the gauge. I'm going to order a ninety amp alternator and skip going through the firewall altogether. I might need some help from y'all when its delivered. I guess I'm going to get it from year one for 115.00 unless y'all know a better place to order it.