I'm going on a quest to find my grandparents plane crash site.

[skip68]

I've heard the story many times when I was younger and recently have decided to try and find the location where my grandparents and aunt and uncle died.  It was in the late 60's and was my grandparents private plane.   They were found two days after the crash in the thick timbers of southern Oregon.  They were killed instantly except my uncle Todd.   They said he died hours after the crash because of marks made by him in the fuselage.    There are several personal items that were not recovered and I'd like to see if I can find them with a metal detector.  

So, now I have to make some calls and see if I can somehow get the coordinates.    It was extremely difficult and steep wooded terrain.   Not sure what I'll find if anything but I need to at least try and look.   There is a U.S. marshal badge that my dad gave my uncle that was never found and some other things.    I'd love to find it.  
Just thought I'd share as some may find it interesting.   Hopefully I can have search area information within a week or so.  I'd like to do this before the weather gets bad for winter.   I'll post any pictures I can.   
Any tips will be welcomed.   

[Mopar Nut]

That would be cool to find and I love metal detecting, I wish you the best. Can you hire a helicopter?

[Alaskan_TA]

Links for researching civilian aircraft crashes - http://aviation-safety.net/index.php & http://www.baaa-acro.com/

[stripedelete]

Good luck on your quest.  Sounds fascinating.

[birdsandbees]

Any more details you can share and I'll see if any of my contacts in the aviation industry can help. Airplane type would be a start and the year?

[Dino]

Good luck on your quest. I'd be interested to hear about the whole search process.

[skip68]

It was September 1968 and the plane was a Navion. I think that's how you spell it but I don't do or know planes.  It was outside of Sweet home Oregon on Green Peters mountain.   I found an old article from a Oregon newspaper but can't read it.   The print is not good.   
Thanks Alaskan for the link.   
I'll check it out right now.     

[birdsandbees]

Okay.. I'll see what I can find out? Yes, Navion is a valid aircraft!

[skip68]

Thanks birdsandbees.    

[polywideblock]

good luck in your quest   

[twenty mike mike]

Hope this helps.

http://www3.gendisasters.com/oregon/18630/green-peter-mountain-or-private-plane-crash-sep-1968

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=10485&key=0

Lots of conflicting info.

[skip68]

 I can't open the bottom link but the top one is it and the only report I've found.   My dad was responding at the bottom back in 2011.   I know my dad said that those 4 people were stealing and I'm sure they probably were taking parts.  But I don't think they were robbing the bodies and stuff.   It was a violent crash in the woods with stuff ejected so I'd imagine the gun, badge and other things could be in the brush or buried.   My grandmother was ejected and partially buried at the base of a tree and the crash site covers a large area from what I understand.   So I'm quite positive that things got scattered and hidden from sight.  

[polywideblock]

NTSB Identification: SEA69A0021
14 CFR Part 91 General Aviation
Aircraft: NAVION A, registration: N8552H
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FILE    DATE          LOCATION          AIRCRAFT DATA       INJURIES       FLIGHT                        PILOT DATA                                                               F  S M/N     PURPOSE----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------3-4537  68/9/14  NR.SWEET HOME,OREG    NAVION A            CR-  1  0  0  NONCOMMERCIAL             PRIVATE, AGE 48, 80 TOTAL        TIME - 1604                    N8552H              PX-  3  0  0  PLEASURE/PERSONAL TRANSP  HOURS, 25 IN TYPE, NOT                                       DAMAGE-DESTROYED    OT-  0  0  0                            INSTRUMENT RATED.        TYPE OF ACCIDENT                                         PHASE OF OPERATION           COLLISION WITH GROUND/WATER: UNCONTROLLED                IN FLIGHT: UNCONTROLLED DESCENT        PROBABLE CAUSE(S)           PILOT IN COMMAND - ATTEMPTED OPERATION BEYOND EXPERIENCE/ABILITY LEVEL           PILOT IN COMMAND - CONTINUED VFR FLIGHT INTO ADVERSE WEATHER CONDITIONS           PILOT IN COMMAND - SPATIAL DISORIENTATION        FACTOR(S)           WEATHER - LOW CEILING           WEATHER - TURBULENCE, ASSOCIATED W/CLOUDS AND/OR THUNDERSTORMS        WEATHER BRIEFING - BRIEFED BY FLIGHT SERVICE PERSONNEL, BY PHONE        WEATHER FORECAST - WEATHER SLIGHTLY WORSE THAN FORECAST        SKY CONDITION                                            CEILING AT ACCIDENT SITE          UNKNOWN/NOT REPORTED                                      600        VISIBILITY AT ACCIDENT SITE                              PRECIPITATION AT ACCIDENT SITE          5 OR OVER(UNLIMITED)                                     RAIN        OBSTRUCTIONS TO VISION AT ACCIDENT SITE                  TEMPERATURE-F          NONE                                                      61        WIND DIRECTION-DEGREES                                   WIND VELOCITY-KNOTS          210                                                       14        TYPE OF WEATHER CONDITIONS                               TYPE OF FLIGHT PLAN          IFR                                                      VFR        REMARKS- NOT INST RATED.Full narrative is not available


Aviation Accident & Synopsis Query Page



Index for September 1968 | Index of months | Back to result
hope this helps its the bottom link 

[skip68]

 
Thanks poly & Mike.   Wow, inaccurate is right.   My grandpa taught my dad to fly.    He had very little log hours since his private license and I'm guessing that's why they said inexperienced as possible causes.    I was told that the weather got severe and my grandpa was on the radio with Eugene airport and he was going back when they lost contact.   

[67440chrg]

Good luck! It is a interesting quest to be on.

[birdsandbees]

Same info my friends dug up skip.

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=10485&key=0

[skip68]

Thanks for your efforts.   

[skip68]

That report has errors.  I need to know which side of green Peters mountain they plane actually went down on.  If the report was correct, and my grandpa kept flying north into severe weather as the report states then the wreckage should be on the south side of the mountain.  But my dad had spoken to the Eugene tower and they said they were in contact for several minutes with my grandpa and he was coming back.  That would put the wreckage on the north side of the mountain.    
I wish there was more details in the report.  There has to be.  Just a matter of finding it.   

[Alaskan_TA]

One report says it happened on the MT. at 4200 feet, but according to the map at http://www.peakbagger.com/map/BigMap.aspx?cy=44.483096&cx=-122.582874&z=13&l=CT&hj=0&t=P&d=56035&c=0&a=0&sx=-999&sy=-999&cyn=0 it is only 3,977 feet tall. So it should be near the top. If you reach the top & do not see it, do a spiral search pattern on your way down. Binoculars are great for spotting reflections off man-made objects if the sun is out also.

[skip68]

  Thanks Alaskan.   Great map.   It appears there is a 4×4 road going up.   

[dual fours]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Green+Peter+Lookout/@44.482333,-122.5853375,1335m/dhttps://www.google.com/maps/place/Green+Peter+Lookout/@44.4927287,-122.5788314,14.76z/data=!
The Radio Tower is smack on top, road going up looks open. Click on Earth and zoom in on center of picture to see the tower, open menu and click on terrain and go North on the ridge, you will see a 4080' peak with a unnamed road. Good luck and wish I was able and closer.
Check with Old timers that may have been logging the area in 68, they would be in there late 60's early 70's maybe, they may hang out in Bars.

skip68, sorry I double posted the map, information you already had.

[skip68]

No problem.  Thanks 

[birdsandbees]

Skip.. from some aviation friends of a friend in Oregon.

N44' 28.986
W122' 34.982

the crash site is 1000' east of green Peter mtn lookout.
the debris field is 400 yards long and I heard some parts of plane might be in the ponds.
i was told the elevation was inaccurate.

Don't have contact information, but told that a Tim Tallen in Springfield Oregon knows everything about aviation incidents in the area if you get stuck on your quest.

[skip68]

Thank you so much birdsandbees.     
I'm going to look him up.   I'm going to make my first trip up there next week.   Just to scout out the area and talk with some locals.   I kinda want to get an idea as to what I'm looking at far as terrain and accessibility.   This might be harder than I thought to find. 
Thanks again.   

[birdsandbees]

Good luck Skip on your quest. I'm sure it will be an emotional journey no matter the end outcome. Glad I could help out through my network of pilot friends.

Wayne

[birdsandbees]

Skip, do you have a picture of what the marshal badge looked like and are you positive your grandpa's gun was a walther? My email friend at the other end is asking. Maybe he knows more. Perhaps I can put you two together if you PM me an email address. He's from Corvallis, Oregon.

Wayne

[skip68]

I'm going to call my mom and ask.   Not sure about the pictures.   I'm in the process of getting copies of the report from the Linn county sheriff's dept archives.     I'll let you know asap.   
Thanks, Chuck.

[skip68]

The Marshall badge has a very distinctive mark from use that we can identify.   The gun was a Walther.   

[birdsandbees]

Okay, as noted by PM hoping I can get my aviation email pal, that's in Oregon, to connect with you and help you out.

[skip68]

  
I'm not knowing what to expect as I dig into this.
I'm trying to keep in mind that this was almost 50 years ago and those that were involved with the search are Most likely in their 70's to 80's or they've passed away.   I did talk with an investigator here locally from the FAA.  He educated me on a few things.  He said that those planes were under powered and my grandpa was most likely looking for a way to get around the weather.    He said that since my grandpa reported icing on the wings and losing altitude that he would have been running at full power trying to gain altitude.       But in reality he was only gaining speed and still dropping.   Should never have been flying in the ceiling and most likely got disoriented.   He also said they probably never saw the mountain or trees due to speed and visibility.   A quick way to go.   

[birdsandbees]

When you get yourself stuck in that mess you just keep heading for the bright spots and turning away from what looks darker, been there.. done that and can thankfully still tell the stories. Envision a very dark night and pouring rain with crap windshield wipers and trying to stay on a road without hitting anything. In an airplane you can't just pull over to the curb.

And yes, the Navion killed more than it's fair share of people.. but unfortunately a bad flight decision into unforgiving weather got your grandparents, aunt and uncle. Happens to many when "gotta get there" mentality takes over your best interests no matter how many flight hours you have. Like I said, I've been there and somehow came out the other side. Many of my friends haven't been as fortunate.

[Lord Warlock]

Our family used to own a Navion, and half interest in a 2nd which was newer.  The older model was a very sturdy and easy to fly airplane, I learned to fly it when I was 12, my brother soloed in it when he was 16 and got his private license.  Navions normally had a sliding canopy that slid backwards and you exited by stepping out onto the wing.  Our Navion was considerably quicker/faster than most Cessna's I encountered or flew in, and it also had gas tanks on the ends of each wing (tip tanks).  We used to fly in tandem with another family hat had a Beechcaft Bonanza (v tailed) and we could keep up with him most of the time. 

age of the aircraft did have something to do with longevity, we had one of the side windows decide to pop sideways in mid flight over the mountains in West VA.  We kids grabbed the window as best we could but suction sucked it out and then we proceeded to freeze until we could land and block off the open window.  We did end up flying the plane back home without a window.  

I had fond memories of flying that plane, they have a loyal following and used to have annual flyins like RVers used to have annual meets.  Our 2nd Navion was about 10 years newer and had no tip tanks, and did not have the personality or fun that the first one had.  Our partner ended up buying out our interest in the 2nd plane.  Ours was eventually sold to some movie company out in California. Still remember our call sign...N5370k and its been 42 years since I saw it last, still in my memory banks.  

[tan top]

 sounds like its going to be a interesting adventure !!  good luck on your quest Chuckie   

[birdsandbees]

Great talking to your on the phone today Chuck.... and great to hear that the local SAR group is going to do a training exercise in June to the crash site with you along. Some days the stars align....  

[RCCDrew]

Subscribed. Good luck to you.

[miller time]

God speed! And good luck! Bring friends if you can since if y'all walk the same way with say 20-30 yards apart you can cover way more ground, an ATV would be very useful if your allowed to use it, if they hauled off the wreckage you may be able to find hints of an old man made trail, like long. Dead trees cut with a saw or just less vegetation then surrounding areas, possible that contacting local salvage yards and tow companies may have an idea of its location either from being hired or hearing something, local hunters may be helpful as well! Don't forget a good GPS and gun either

[mrsskip68]

This is going to be an adventure for sure. Emotional but also hopefully get some answers and closure for my father in law, Chuck, and the whole family. I'll be there trying to document everything I can via my good camera and our camcorder. Our son will also be accompanying us. More to come.
Mrs.skip68😉

[66FBCharger]

Good luck!

[dyslexic teddybear]

Good luck also, and may answers be found that helps.

[birdsandbees]

Chuck, did you get up there??? 

[Finn]

If you are using Google Earth Pro (free download) you can use the time slider to look at past aerial imagery from years back. Obviously the further back you go the worse quality you get BUT if you have an idea of the general area you might be able to see some damaged trees.

Local Land Surveyors may be a resource too.

Good luck!

[skip68]

Thanks finn     
No I haven't made it up there yet.  The plane is still there as it was almost 50 years ago.  I've had great success thanks to Mr. Ehrhardt from the Benton county search and rescue . He's located the plane, gotten reports and found some personal belongings. 
A pistol that was my grandfather's has been returned to us.  We know who has the other one and the marshals badge and are waiting to get those back. 
This has turned into an extraordinary story.  That's all for now. 

[Mopar Nut]

 

[mrsskip68]

It's been an adventure for sure and the story is still unfolding!
Mrs.Skip68😉

[birdsandbees]

Really glad to hear things are still moving along Chuck since we last talked on the phone! 

[Tilar]

Thanks finn     
No I haven't made it up there yet.  The plane is still there as it was almost 50 years ago.  I've had great success thanks to Mr. Ehrhardt from the Benton county search and rescue . He's located the plane, gotten reports and found some personal belongings. 
A pistol that was my grandfather's has been returned to us.  We know who has the other one and the marshals badge and are waiting to get those back. 
This has turned into an extraordinary story.  That's all for now. 

You know that you have to show pictures at some point. 

[poppa]

Sounds kinda cool. When are you going? Good luck!